Tell me where I went wrong...

[swd12422]

I'm not so good at being gentle, but I'm trying! I'm also trying out natural consequences, but sometimes they just don't come....

Tonight, DS was a bit overstimulated and just couldn't listen well. (He's 2, after all...) It was "quiet time" where we read to him and then get him ready for bed (pee, brush teeth, put on diaper and pjs, and I sing and rock him a little). I was getting his milk ready so we could read, and he started that piercing shrieking toddlers do. He knows the rule is to do that outside only. I told him 3 times to stop b/c it was hurting my ears. He didn't. I told him if he did it one more time he'd be in bed with no milk or story. He did it. I took him to say goodnight to DH, then got his teeth brushed and got him changed. He became hysterical when he realized he wasn't getting a story or milk.

I couldn't calm him down. He just wanted DH, who was trying to relax after a tough day at work. I told him no, that his choice was to snuggle with me or get right into his crib. When he refused to make a choice between the two, I left him in his crib for a minute. He got more hysterical. I went right back in, but still couldn't get it through to him that DH was not an option, nor was going out to read a story b/c it was now too late to read or sing and he needed to go to sleep. (This was all in about 20 minutes.) He kept crying, til DH came in and took over.

On the one hand, I'm POed that he did that, b/c it undermines my word with DS. I told him no DH, and then DH comes in. So I have no credibility now. On the other, maybe it will help him calm down. He stopped crying when DH went in, but DH is trying to get out of there fast and DS is crying to get him to stay.

What should I have done? I don't want to teach him that he can just cry a little and get whatever he wants. It doesn't always work that way. OTOH, I know he's still little and can't understand. He does seem to understand the connection btw doing something he knows he's not supposed to do, and getting "punished" (usu removed from the situation somehow). Was this too much of a stretch? What should I have done instead? I cannot ignore the shrieking. It has to stop. I have a migraine, fer crying out loud!

[nina_yyc]

Logical consequences as you're describing started to work much better as my DD got closer to three. (It's not actually a natural consequence...there is no natural law of shrieking makes you lose milk.) From the time she was about two we established a rule - you are entitled to three books. Any major holdup/difficulty in the bedtime routine meant time for one less book. This did not used to be very effective, but now works great and requires minimal reminders. Looking back I'm pretty sure it was developmental..she just wasn't ready to think through the cause/effect like you're expecting at 2yo.

Losing bedtime comfort is pretty scary for a LO and 2yo is pretty young. I would try other methods of stopping the annoying behavior - ignoring it, putting the child in another room to scream, asking your DH to take him, distracting him. Whatever you do make sure you're consistent, and if you decide to go with a logical consequence then don't bother with the excessive warnings - once he is aware of the consequence follow through.

If none of this clicks for you, here's another thought...no logical consequence or routine has ever worked for DD the first time. She has always needed to test it a few times.

[hakeber]

Do you have an outdoor space that is safe, like a patio or screened in porch?

Maybe next time he squeals you could pick him up and put him outside and remind him that screeching is only for outdoors?

Or maybe he could have screeching time in his room with the door closed and you could just say "screeching hurt mommy's ears. Mommy come back when DS done screeching." (when they are riled up or excited it is best to use super simple linguistic constructions to be clear)

and leave and when he is done, go back.

If it is genuinely too late for stories then, you can later say "You chose screeching time instead of story time. Tomorrow you can choose story time. Now...do we cuddle or do I go?"

I know what you mean, but I HATE when DH decides on my behalf that ds can't see me. If I can't go see him at bed, I'd rather be the one to say so and explain why. It sort of makes your DH look uncaring that he won't even explain himself, so I can see why he did what he did. You are right, it does make you look silly, but that's probably why you shouldn't do that. The trick is not to withhold a parent's attention but to make sure both parents will present a united front on other issues.

[swd12422]

Thank you both. You are right that no milk is not a logical consequence, other than no time left now, but he's too little to understand that.

We do have a rule that he can yell as much as he wants outside. Usually, I let him go out if he wants and it's fine. He even stops himself and says, "Sheek outside?" most of the time. But he LOVES to be outside, and if I'd sent him out to shriek at 8 pm he'd never have come back in to go to bed. The day before, he wanted to yell at dinner, so we told him he could do it in his room. He pooped... without a diaper on. And it just didn't seem to be the right time of day to be so loud anyway. But I guess I should have found a different way to deal with it.

And yes, I got my lesson about speaking for DH. I was trying to let DS know that it was night time so EVERYONE needed to go to sleep, and he asked if Daddy was going to bed. So I said, yes, Daddy needs his sleep too. Everyone is going to sleep..... Backfired.

DH ended up having a hard time getting him down too. Hopefully today will be better. He woke up yelling his head off.

[LynnS6]

You know, sometimes it's just better to admit that we made a mistake and regroup. That sounds like what your dh did for you. You were tired and frazzled, your ds was tired and frazzled and it spiraled out of control. BTDT, and it's never pretty. But it's also not the end of the world.

I do not believe that once we've said something we must always follow through with it, especially if we realize we've been too harsh. "I decided that that wasn't a good idea" is a good way to model recovering from mistakes for your kids.

A couple of suggestions:
Describe your feelings for your son -- I don't know how much they get at 2, but for me, that helps me see why I'm so upset. "I'm tired and grumpy and I can't stand the screaming right now." I was super hungry on Tuesday when I was driving dd home, and she kept asking questions and not accepting my answers. I was getting increasingly short and irritated with her, until I realized "I have no patience because I'm hungry". So, I said "I'm really hungry and kind of grumpy right now" and she stopped. Now, she's 5 and has a lot more understanding and self control than a 2 year old, but she stopped because she understood. It's a good practice to get started.

Walk away. If he's screaming and you can't stand it, the logical consequence is that you don't stay near him. It also gives you time to regroup. Go into the bathroom, close the door, and take some deep breaths. Will he continue to scream? Yep. But sometimes a little distance really helps.

Try not setting ultimatums. "If you do that one more time...." has almost always backfired on me. There must be something about humans that when presented with a challenge, we must take it. I've actually reduced mine to "If you do that one more time, I'm going to scream." They, of course, do it again, and I scream, and we all get a good laugh. (Note: this drives my dh crazy as it startles him.)

Tell him what to do -- so toddlers respond really well to "please use a quiet voice" or "put your feet on the floor". (Heck, older kids do too.)

Use days like this as a learning experience -- what would you do differently next time? I'd be a much better parent to a toddler now that my kids are past that stage because I learned a lot. Too bad parenting has so much on the job training!

[2cutiekitties]

Lynn, excellent advice

[sapphire_chan]

Haven't read the other responses or all of your first post, but my immediate reaction was "if he was doing outside-only screaming, he needed to be taken outside"

Okay, now that I've read on, that clearly wouldn't have worked.

[Minxie]

Tonight, DS was a bit overstimulated and just couldn't listen well. (He's 2, after all...) It was "quiet time" where we read to him and then get him ready for bed (pee, brush teeth, put on diaper and pjs, and I sing and rock him a little). I was getting his milk ready so we could read, and he started that piercing shrieking toddlers do. He knows the rule is to do that outside only. I told him 3 times to stop b/c it was hurting my ears. He didn't. I told him if he did it one more time he'd be in bed with no milk or story. He did it. I took him to say goodnight to DH, then got his teeth brushed and got him changed. He became hysterical when he realized he wasn't getting a story or milk.


A couple of things I did with my son at that age:

Swaddled with a larger blanket (not adult-sized but big enough to hold him). I would lay out the blanket on the bed, lay him on it, and roll him up pretending to make a burrito or an eggroll. It made both of us laugh, distracted him, and the swaddling helped him to fall asleep when he was overstimulated. We still do it occasionally even though he is now four. Sometimes I will swaddle him and pull him onto my lap for a snuggle and a song; that helps us both settle down.

We also have a special bedtime story that I tell him when I am EXASPERATED:

"Once-there-was-a-little-boy-who-drove-his-Mama-crazy.-The-End"

I slur it all together really fast and it helps us both laugh; usually we end up giggling together and then he's ready to settle down. It also helps me calm down so I am ready to tell him a real bedtime story or read a book.


If it is genuinely too late for stories then, you can later say "You chose screeching time instead of story time. Tomorrow you can choose story time. Now...do we cuddle or do I go?"


Occasionally, I will also do something like this:

"Oh, tartar sauce*, now we don't have time for a story. Oh, well, maybe tomorrow; let's hop into the B-E-D so we can go to S-L-E-E-P." Again, the spelling just distracts him as he tries to work out what I am saying so his body goes on autopilot and gets into bed.


*Our way of saying "Darn it!"

[my_baby_love]

What struck me about what you said was that you asked him not to shriek three times and then told him not to do it again, which of course he did (kids can never pass that up ). So, it seems to me a bit like you were undermined from the start because you didn't do anything to make/help him stop after asking once. With my older DS we try to ask only once. If he does XYZ again, he gets the consequences (or in your case a distraction might have worked). No asking multiple times, no chances to do it again. He is asked to stop, and then he gets help if he can't manage it on his own. We also try very hard to pick our battles, but our goal is that when we ask him to do something he knows we mean it the first time, not the third or fourth time.

After re-reading my post I think I am coming across a little harsh, but my DS is one of those kids that needs very firm and consistent boundaries and if we don't hold firm just one time he starts to push and push and it takes days to regain structure again. We are gentle in our re-directing/distracting/disciplining and we try to use logical consequences too, so that has been what is most helpful to us.

[One_Girl]

I find that it is impossible to get through to my dd when she is overstimulated and exhausted even now that she is seven. I would have ignored the screaming and given the milk and story. Occassionally setting aside a boundary doesn't ruin things in the long run and neither does someone undermining you when it is in your child's best interest. I have had some really bad days where I have needed intervention and I am always releaved when it comes (after my initial furious reaction). I think you should thank your husband for coming in and rescuing both of you from your poor decisions.

[Just1More]

Well.....I hear ya' on the not wanting to reinforce stuff you don't want to see again. But, he's two. All that junk you read about giving in once or twice, and how it will ruin your kid...nope. All that stuff leaves out the bit that your child is a real person in a real life scenerio.

So, stop beating yourself up on the "what I should have done." Maybe, just maybe, it was one of those nights when nothing would have worked anyway. Maybe he had a bit of a bellyache or something.

What to do in the future. Firstly, if this is not a common problem with your ds (not listening, pushing you to the brink), then simply analyze and store the signs that he had a problem of some sort. The next time you see the same sort of thing, you can know, probably, that he is "off" for some reason and needs a little more grace.

Secondly, if this IS a habitual issue, or things of the like during the day, then work on them in times of lower stress, For example, does he give you a hard time in the morning when he's fresh, happy, and well-fed? THAT'S your opportunity to start some gentle character molding. It will eventually carry over into the rest of his life.

That screaming out of control two-year old stuff, when they are overtired, underfed, or whatever, isn't a character issue in your little guy. It's the same panicked behavior of the infant left in their crib...he doesn't KNOW what's wrong, and he doesn't KNOW how to fix it. He's just knows something is terribly wrong inside of him. That's the baby coming out still.