Why is ds reacting to me?

[Theloose]

Trying to track down the cause of ds's symptoms, before things get out of hand like they did with dd... I'm already not eating gluten, dairy (except butter, seems safe for me), corn, soy, almonds, zucchini/other squash, potatoes, ...

Ds was born 3/29, so he's 2.5 weeks old now. 10lbs at birth, probably 11.5 by now (seriously, I grow huge babies). He's been getting pharmax neonate probiotics since birth. Not a ton, or consistently, though.

At one week, he got some pretty significant baby acne, but it's going away quickly. I think it shows up in response to me eating too many carbs without enough protein. When pg, doing that gave me heartburn for the next few days.

For the past week, he's had a rash. It's tiny red raised bumps that started in his armpits and now cover the inside of his arms and onto his sides/chest. It looks almost like it could be a contact reaction to something from picking him up under the arms, then spread from his arms being against his chest.

He has slight yeast rashes in his armpits and groin area.

He's getting what I think is the start of cradle cap/sebhorreic dermatitis between his eyes. I'm guessing I need more biotin, because my B6 should be great. I'm getting 15mg/day now, I'll try upping it to 20mg (I have a partial biotinidase deficiency so I need extra).

He's spitting up way more than I remember dd doing. (I won't rule out silent reflux for her, though.) In the past few days, he's started fussing at the breast, though today he's back to (mostly) calmly nursing. It *seems* correlated to how strong my letdown is, but the letdown does *not* seem to be correlated with breast fullness or which side or anything.

Last week, my mom made (safe) soup for us for dinner for a few nights. It threw me into a (mood/depression) reaction like when I was pg. Then our neighbor brought over a huge pot of food. Then I was hungry walking home from the grocery store, so ate (presumably safe) salami and gummy worms. I think the reactions likely have to do with those foods.

But.

I've had a hard, hard time keeping up with fluids and electrolytes (esp potassium), and so have been somewhat dehydrated. Maybe just basic, metabolic toxins not flushing out of me before they go into milk?

I'm having a hard time eating enough (dd's tandem nursing, too), and so might be going through some fat stores (old toxins?) and have been getting a huge number of calories from butter (butter sensitivity?).

I've had a long, slow recovery (though I'm feeling mostly 'back' now), and so it's been easy to over-exert myself. Maybe metabolic stuff from that?

I've been juicing, and enjoying drinking the juice for the first time, could that be causing a detox reaction?

I know I'm low on vit A, but getting it makes me dehydrated, and so am avoiding CLO and liver until I can get the fluids under control first.

I think I'm low on copper, and so have been eating and REALLY enjoying a bunch of shellfish. I couldn't eat seafood while pg, it was one of the few things that grossed me out. Crab cakes for dinner last night and breakfast today, and ds was at his worst yesterday afternoon, and suddenly got better right after breakfast today.

I've been taking carlson's CLO (naturally low in vit A! ) for the EFAs, and I think EFAs make my toe hurt (like an ingrown nail or something) but I've been taking them anyway.

And I just finished a nettles infusion, and am getting a bit of acid reflux. Never had that happen before/while pg, but did last week. Hmm...

What am I looking for? I guess I'm throwing out all the causes I can think of, and want to formulate a plan of attack to narrow down the possibilities. Mostly I'm thinking out loud and would love brainstorming help I'm hoping to do this with nutrients because I *think* I've got all my triggers figured out (besides xcon stuff) and I *think* ds is much more likely to be reacting to me than to foods himself.

Thoughts? Am I totally over-analyzing, and this stuff is all normal newborn stuff?

[lil_miss_understood]

I haven't read but subbing to try to catch up later. for now

[kjbrown92]

Butter screams to me, but that's because we're sensitive to every part of the milk.

If the salami was from a deli, I'd assume contamination from the slicer.

We couldn't do the gummy bears/worms - can't remember why though.

And at this point, with those restrictions, I wouldn't accept food from anyone unless you watched them make it. But that's just me. I'm paranoid.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Butter screams to me, but that's because we're sensitive to every part of the milk.

If the salami was from a deli, I'd assume contamination from the slicer.

We couldn't do the gummy bears/worms - can't remember why though.

And at this point, with those restrictions, I wouldn't accept food from anyone unless you watched them make it. But that's just me. I'm paranoid.

The only reaction I can identify to butter is KP-style bumps on dd's torso (and it's one of the few foods that she consistently refuses to eat). I don't think I reacted to it while pg. And I don't think I reacted to the goat kefir while pg either, though I'm not sure about now. Not craving it (kefir) anymore No identifiable reaction to ghee in anyone.

The salami was a whole sausage, bitten off in chunks (no pocket knife to cut slices). Only questionable was 'natural flavors' but usually we don't (noticeably) react to trace stuff.

My mom's been GF for 4 months now, so not likely much gluten xcon, and she's good about checking all ingredients with me. I still think I reacted to it, though, so I'm insisting on only food prepped in my kitchen for the time being. Not so fun for postpartum, but seriously yummy to get to indulge in every craving I get

[Koalamom]

Yeah could be the butter.
My son reacts when MY digestion is off. So I take a digestive enzyme and also supplementing with molybdenum and epsom salt baths is important. Another thing that gives my kids serious rashes is fermented foods like sauerkraut. Pergaps you should lay off the cultures as it could be causing a detox. And watch out for biotin as that will do that too. How are you with yams for vit A?
And does Nordic Naturals have added Vit E from soy?

[mamafish9]

I think you're changing a lot of stuff all at once, and you're going to make yourself crazy .

Your body has a TON of rebalancing to do after growing a babe for 10 months. Can you do your best to eat what makes you feel good, and not worry too much yet about DS? It doesn't sound like he's dealing with anything too terrible, and his body may need some time to adjust too.

You're a smart mama, and you will figure this out - but give yourself lots of time to enjoy your yummy little (big!!) guy too...

[dannic]

The rash sounds like heat rash and honestly, I have never known a baby to not have some sort of cradles cap at some point, kwim? It can't all be reactions for all babies all the time.

My kids all did that fussy eating/colicky thing--ds (no allergies) was worst and it all went away with a chiro visit. (So seconding my own recommendation there, lol.)

I think milk regulation is largely hormonal and sometimes from overdoing it. Take it easy, let your body heal, and focus on the relationships!

(I totally understand, tho. I over analyze too)

Digestive enzymes is a good idea. And staying hydrated. I made a rule for myself: I wasn't allowed to sit down unless I had a quart of water with me and drank it, lol. I am SO THIRSTY pp, tho.

I think all these things will come naturally as you adjust to the new family life. (It always takes me at least 3 months)

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Can you do your best to eat what makes you feel good, and not worry too much yet about DS? It doesn't sound like he's dealing with anything too terrible, and his body may need some time to adjust too.

that's more or less what I'm doing. The spit up and sudden increase in fussiness, and the sudden resolution of it today just really got my attention. And I still want a plan of attack. For now, I'm thinking focus on hydration (so hard, for so many reasons) and see what that does. Then focus on vit A. And hydration again. And not try to eliminate/change my diet until I'm set on those two. But there's this sudden fussiness/spitting up issue, and so it sounds like all home cooked food for at least long enough to do a trial. I think what's throwing me off is that he seems to actually be at that baseline that we could never get to with dd. And I'm confused

drs appt today. 11lbs 13oz, 22.5". She thinks the rash is just a normal infant thing, nothing to worry about. And she thinks the reflux is just a function of too much milk.

[Nosy]

Originally Posted by whoMe

And she thinks the reflux is just a function of too much milk.

This is what people kept telling me about my DS's reflux, that it was because of too strong a let down in the beginning. I have a friend whose baby spit up like crazy but was gaining weight really quickly, and she was told it was because of too much milk. Have you tried expressing a little milk before feeding him? I know you have an allergy history, but wouldn't it be great if it was just that?

My DS spit up like crazy (still does if I'm not on my elimination diet) and did best if I were on an almost completely protein diet (low carb). But my DS did not gain weight well, so that was the big concern with his spitting up. I definitely never had too much milk. I know you're likely looking for the cause, but there are lots of homeopathic remedies out there that might help. Other things we tried were aloe vera, digestive enzymes, probiotics, slippery elm, Intestimend, Chinese herbs (I'm sure there's more, it has been a long 8 months). One thing that kept running through my head was that 1/4 tsp of something can supposedly change a baby's gut so I desperately didn't want to give him anything but breastmilk for the first 6 months, but I did end up starting things like digestive enzymes, slippery elm & Intestimend at 5 months.

Hope something in there helps.

[Theloose]

Got some anemia labs back (for me, not ds). The out of range ones are on top.
(lab range) [postpartum range]

Ferritin 4 (5-114)
RBC 3.32 (3.80-5.20)
Hemoglobin 9.6 (11.7-15.7) [10.4-18]
Hematocrit 28.1 (35.0-47.0 %) [30-44]
Platelet count 410 (150-400)
Iron, Total 19 (20-160)
Transferrin Sat 5 (20-60 %)

Transferrin 372 (230-520)
WBC 6.2 (4.0-11.0) [9.7-25.7]
MCV 84.6 (82.0-98.0)
MCH 29.0 (27.0-34.0)
MCHC 34.2 (32.0-36.0)
RDW 14.0 (11.5-14.5 %)

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

Yeah could be the butter.
My son reacts when MY digestion is off. So I take a digestive enzyme and also supplementing with molybdenum and epsom salt baths is important. Another thing that gives my kids serious rashes is fermented foods like sauerkraut. Pergaps you should lay off the cultures as it could be causing a detox. And watch out for biotin as that will do that too. How are you with yams for vit A?
And does Nordic Naturals have added Vit E from soy?

My digestion is actually doing pretty well. It was off while pg, but seems to have normalized after birth. Of course there's still room for improvement, but I doubt it'll be a key piece for me.

I don't think I have metals issues, and this is actually half the biotin I was taking while pg, and I've never had identifyable die-off symptoms from it. Haven't been eating many cultures and again, they're not anything I've (or dd) ever reacted to, even in mass quantities.

We've been eating lots of sweet potatoes, or as much as I'm comfortable with, carb-wise. Doesn't touch my vit A needs, though. Either I don't convert beta carotene well (likely) or preformed retinol really is THAT much more powerful (equally likely).

Originally Posted by Nosy

This is what people kept telling me about my DS's reflux, that it was because of too strong a let down in the beginning. I have a friend whose baby spit up like crazy but was gaining weight really quickly, and she was told it was because of too much milk. Have you tried expressing a little milk before feeding him? I know you have an allergy history, but wouldn't it be great if it was just that?

The spitup, or at least the stuff that seems to bother him is more random timing - not necessarily right after getting milk. And it seems to happen even with dd helping when there's a really full breast. I've been trying to give him minimal foremilk, cause that was an issue with dd as well.

Thanks for the brainstorming

[dannic]

I would try to up your iron--my hemocrit was similar to yours and they gave me a prescription for it. This is what I used for three months.
http://protease.optimalhealthsystems...ection~369.htm

I have no iron issues. (many when taking pres iron end up still anemic because it isn't absorbed, which I'm sure you know.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by dannic

I would try to up your iron--my hemocrit was similar to yours and they gave me a prescription for it. This is what I used for three months.
http://protease.optimalhealthsystems...ection~369.htm

I have no iron issues. (many when taking pres iron end up still anemic because it isn't absorbed, which I'm sure you know.

Yeah, upping my iron is definitely happening. My HGB was actually normal/in range the couple times I tested while pg, and I don't show visual signs of anemia (my coloring/mucous membranes look good) so I haven't supped it at all. And the numbers don't actually look all *that* bad when you use the postpartum ranges. Starting myself now on the Tri-Iron my midwife gave me a while back, and will focus on more lamb/shellfish and less chicken/turkey.

I'm also wondering, though... copper deficiency can cause iron-deficient anemia. I've been looking for a write up of what clinical indicators of that would be, but am coming up short.

[JaneS]

And so can hypothyroid. I know I'm a broken record lately but dang that ferritin is wicked low! I'm just sayin'.

[JaneS]

MCV and MCH look good though... those are sizes of red blood cells. Elevated numbers would mean B12/folic acid deficiency anemia so you don't appear to have that. And that's all I know!

[Theloose]

I should have B12 numbers back any day, it was tested at the same time. But I tend to be good on folate and B12, so that's not surprising that it's not pernicious anemia. Which leaves copper and iron, still.

So, for thyroid stuff... Wondering if I should test again. In the past, TSH is ever-so-slightly above ideal, free T4 is mid-range, free T3 is bottom of the range. And body temps are low-ish. So clearly something is up, but I don't really have other symptoms. Since ds was born, I haven't had any new symptoms that look like thyroid, and my temp has been consistently high-ish (99.2 range). Seems like the wrong angle to chase right now, compared to the mineral deficiencies, no? It'd be easy enough to ask for the tests at ds's next well baby, I just start feeling a bit like a hypochondriac.

[Theloose]

B12 and vit D are good (D is 61 )
*I* think ds is definitely reacting. He's 1mo now. Generally in the form of over eating/choking on letdown/reflux/spitting up, followed by associated bad sleep and fussiness. His forehead/eyes/scalp are covered in cradle cap. In general he appears to be in great shape.

I want to update with my current guess/theory/plan. Partly just to organize thoughts and get them out of my head.

JaneS is talking about enzyme deficiencies being THE root cause of food issues, and hypothyroid and the associated low body temperatures being the cause of the enzyme deficiencies. Heavy metals bind to enzymes so you can't use them, essentially creating deficiencies. Mamafish is talking about her son's all low pattern on his urine amino acids test. Which indicates a general amino acid deficiency, which would result in an enzyme deficiency. Possibly due to malabsorption, possibly due to using the amino acids as fuel for energy.

I have slightly low body temps, but not really other thyroid symptoms. And my body temp is much more normal lately. Thyroid labs are slightly off the ideal ranges, but not enough to convince me it's the root of all this.

I had a urine amino acids test a year ago that came back low in pretty much everything. Creatinine a few months earlier was normal, so it likely really is low AA, not a kidney thing. I eat/ate a ton of animal protein. Ammonia was normal at the time of the UAA test, so I don't think I'm using the AAs for fuel. Which points to malabsorption.

To absorb protein, first stomach acid denatures the protein, then gastric and pancreatic enzymes break it down into peptides and amino acids to be absorbed in the gut. I pass the beet test consistently, but there have been a few times that I haven't - mostly a couple years ago at my low point, nutritionally. That makes me think that I really do have good HCl, and that it's not just a leaky gut/bacteria thing that's keeping the pigment from being absorbed. Which leaves the enzymes.

Last year, we were talking about the size and complexity of the starch molecule affecting reactivity. The list of big starch molecules was like a list of what we react to. Starch enzymes are mainly from the pancreas.

So now we're looking at a lack of pancreatic digestive enzymes as the likely culprit. Add to the list, Yasko thinks that certain SNPs are associated with needing extra pancreatic support. As best as I can compare with my 23andMe results, I'm a likely candidate for some of those genes. I also seemingly have some insulin/blood sugar issues. Insulin is produced by the pancreas.

Other pieces that fit - biotinidase deficiency (tested), D6D deficiency (cradle cap. Dd's never went away despite not eating trigger foods, and ds has it already despite me taking 20mg biotin/day). Both enzyme deficiencies.

So what to do? I saw my doc today, and she's not aware of any tests for protein malabsorption. Which leaves looking up tests to pay out of pocket (not fun) or treating and watching for improvement (much more fun ). Where to begin for treatment? Yasko suggests vit K, herbs, glandulars, and blood sugar support. Plus pancreatic enzymes and amino acid supps. I'm not excited about most of that, but I've been seeing major goodness from vit K (HVBO) lately and craving collards and kale like mad. So I'm thinking digestive enzymes (to make better use of the protein I'm eating) and vit K since it's the only nutrient on the list. And vit A cause it goes with the K and I'm low in that too.

But mamafish's son was getting lead detox from his pancreatic enzymes. Presumably from lead sequestered in bacteria that were feeding on the undigested food that the enzymes were now digesting. That's a scary thought with a nursing newborn (and 3yo). But when I was on lots of enzymes a couple years ago, I didn't notice die-off, and the worst (potential) reaction in dd was the return of crazy bedtimes after a few weeks/month of easy ones. So it sounds like there might be something there, but I don't *think* I'm terribly worried about it.

No matter what, there would be die-off due to better digestion, assuming this is the right track. The drawbacks would be dumping toxins to ds while he's in critical development-land, and to dd while she's not so great in terms of nutritional stores. The benefits would be actually addressing the cause of all our issues, providing better nutrient assimilation and stopping the reactions. As far as I know, we don't have significant metals issues, though there could definitely be stuff hiding in the bacteria. I'm guessing our lack of eczema-type stuff is related to the lack of metals. Other babies are born with metals/toxins and are getting more of them in milk, have eczema, and are able to heal from it. So while definitely not ideal to dump to ds right now, I think the benefits of going down the healing path outweigh the risks *for us* right now.

So my plan is digestive enzymes with each meal, and make sure they have pancreatic enzymes in the mix. Load up on K in the form of leafy greens every day and HVBO. Ramp up my vit A ASAP (start with CLO caps and work up to liver), with the limiting factors of staying hydrated and potassiumed. And cross my fingers for greatness.

Dinners will be leafy greens, veggie, starchy veggie, meat. Bone broth.
(Ferment). Veggie juice every day. Sounds delicious and awesome to me.

[Koalamom]

Great update! I would love links to where all these discussions are going on as this seems to really apply to us.

We have seen big positive changes from adding digestive enzymes, but after my lyme treatment I don't need them anymore. Now I do well when I have a salad everyday and fresh fruit, great living enzymes.

Can't wait to hear more on your progress.

[2rubies]

I just want to add that some babies have a very colicky/refluxy type reaction just trying to keep up with a strong letdown and rapid flow of milk. Have you tried "block feeding"? Going 4 or so hours just nursing on one side, and then the next four hours offering only the other side? Can you nurse while lying down? Some babies can control the flow of milk better that way.

This is something that should level off a little bit by 8 weeks or so, as your body (and baby ) adjust, so I just wanted to put this out there.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by 2rubies

I just want to add that some babies have a very colicky/refluxy type reaction just trying to keep up with a strong letdown and rapid flow of milk. Have you tried "block feeding"? Going 4 or so hours just nursing on one side, and then the next four hours offering only the other side? Can you nurse while lying down? Some babies can control the flow of milk better that way.

This is something that should level off a little bit by 8 weeks or so, as your body (and baby ) adjust, so I just wanted to put this out there.

Yeah, I had to block feed dd at about 8 months old, to correct a foremilk hindmilk imbalance. Didn't change the letdowns much then. Ds is actually almost 100% nursing on one side only - the side with the weaker letdown, and dd has the other side. I'm still thinking it's a reaction more than just a letdown/supply issue, because he spits up mostly at night, but more *before* nursing than right after. We do nurse lying down then. And there's such variation - some days barely anything, and some days a bunch, starting shortly after I've been feeling off from eating the wrong thing. Or it's bad when I have insomnia, and insomnia is how I tend to react to things.