Total garden newbie, help me!

[Tarielena]

I made my first attempt at a garden last year. All I did was cut the sod off, used a shovel to break up the soil by hand, and planted stuff. I started the seedlings inside a few weeks ahead of time, but then got distracted for a couple extra weeks so some of them got root-bound and I think were stunted from that. In addition to that, one corner of my garden area does not drain well at all and gets puddles when it rains. On top of everything, I planted pumpkins in the main garden area, and they ended up taking over the whole garden and killing most of it by blocking the sun.

Despite all this I still had some decent results (the pumpkins sure thrived ). So this year I'm going to actually put a little thought and effort into things. I figure that if I still got stuff to grow despite doing almost everything wrong, I have a chance for this year.

So I guess what I am asking, is just for some generalized advice of what to do to get things ready. My garden area is about 5' x 12' maybe? Then I have some space along the back fence which is where I am banishing the pumpkins and other viney plants like zucchini. I'm going to put up some raised beds around both areas hopefully.

Will I want to till up the ground underneath the soil that I add to the raised beds? Also, what/when do I want to add to the soil? Some sort of organic fertilizer? Even though I know it would be best, I am not up to composting this year at least.

If it matters, I'm planting a bunch of different veggies (I figure at least something will have to survive), tomatoes, green beans, carrots, various peppers, peas, cucumbers, zucchini, pumpkins, watermelon, some herbs, strawberries, okra, and I am in Grand Rapids Michigan if that makes a difference.

I just thought of a question as I was typing this... as I mentioned previously in the post, I want to plant some things along the back (wood) fence. If I build it up into a raised bed do I need to entirely contain the dirt in the bed, or can the fence itself be the back of the bed?

Anyway, sorry for the long/random/rambly post. Any advice of any kind would be appreciated.

[Minxie]

First things first: what's your dirt like? Is it rich soil, heavy clay, or sandy? That will tell you if you need to add stuff to it or not, and what kind. I am a fan of the raised beds and lasagna gardening because I am lazy and don't like to till. If you do want to add some compost, check with your local Department of Public Works and see if they have free compost available to you.

So far:

1) What kind of dirt do you have?
2) Google "Lasagna Gardening"
3) Find out if there is free compost

Next, plan your garden. You have a space that is about 5'x12'. Take a day and watch as the sun crosses it; which area gets the most sun, the most shade? Is the puddle area a problem (broken pipe or such) or does water just tend to puddle there? Could something grow there that needs lots of water, like tomatoes? What is in the space currently and what surrounds it (trees, fences, etc.)? Is it very windy or not so much? Draw a layout that shows this stuff so you have a clear idea of what's going on in your yard.

Now that you know what's what, what do you WANT to grow? Corn? Peas? Lettuce? Find out what the plants need that you want to grow and only grow stuff you want; growing tomatoes is cool if you will eat them but don't do it because you're "supposed to" if they will just go into the compost bin.

Once you know what you WANT to grow and what those plants NEED, plan accordingly. Corn needs lots of sun and grows very tall so if you plant that in the sun's path, nothing else will get any sun. Good if you're growing lettuce or peas, which like the cool shade; not so good if you want to grow tomatoes. Corn is also a heavy nitrogen feeder so it needs rich soil; it is often planted in the Three Sisters method with squash and beans.

So far, all we've done is plan but that's cool. Now you know what you want and where it will grow. You can start seedlings indoors or sow directly into the ground, depending on your climate and the plants involved.

Also your questions about a raised bed: you don't need to fence it at all, you can build a raised bed just by mounding the soil and making paths. So yes, the wood fence can be the back of it. You can use the wood fence as a trellis or to support a trellis for some of your high-growing, support-needing plants so keep that in mind as well. HTH

[Chicky2]

You just got great advice.

I want to add that sometimes you can get compost at the dump. A dump near us sells what they call "dino dirt" and you can get it in different amounts for very cheap.

Also, if you can find a local family farm, you can ask them if you can come scoop poo for your garden. Find someone w/goats or rabbits because that poo does NOT need to be composted first.

[Tarielena]

Great advice, thanks!

I did a bunch of planning and messing around yesterday. I've decided to put in two 8" raised beds made w/ cedar that will be 8' x 6' each (I know, a little wider than you're supposed to go, but I'll make it work ).

In those beds will go things like green beans, peas, various peppers, tomatoes, okra, celery, carrots. Along the back fence I'm going to just mound some extra good dirt up, maybe with a little border to keep it contained and put the pumpkins and zucchini there. I'm going to keep herbs in pots on the deck to keep from cluttering up the garden. Also I think I will keep strawberries up there as well, maybe they will stay better protected that way?

So now what do I want to add to the topsoil I will buy? If I get compost from the dump as a previous poster suggested do I just mix it in? I don't know anyone off hand that has a farm, and I don't know if I'd get around to scooping the poo myself, but I could buy composted manure from Lowe's or something, would that be fine? Is there anything else? Peat moss?

I also see coffee grounds mentioned a lot. Is that something that you just mix into the soil as well? On one post I saw it mentioned that ALL Starbuck's locations saves their grounds for gardeners. Does anyone know anything about this? I'd feel kinda awkward walking in and being like "hi, can I have a bucket of coffee grounds please?" and have them look at me like I'm crazy.

[Chicky2]

I want to suggest that you rethink the width of your beds. I am 5'9", and my 4' bed is almost too wide for me to work comfortably (for my back, not my arm length-for that it is just right). Really, if you go 8' or 10'x4' you will not regret it. It is possible you may w/the 6' and why not make it right the first time?

For topsoil, you may be able to get it cheaper if you call around at excavating companies, sand and gravel places, etc.

The compost, whether it's dino dirt, or bagged manure compost at the store, just mix it right in. I only use peat moss if my soil isn't nice and loose. There are no nutrients in peat moss, I don't think.

They will not look at you like you are crazy if you ask for coffee grounds. Why do you think they save them?

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/feat..._starbuck.html

http://freebies.about.com/cs/free/l/blstarbucks.htm

[Minxie]

Originally Posted by Tarielena

Great advice, thanks!

I did a bunch of planning and messing around yesterday. I've decided to put in two 8" raised beds made w/ cedar that will be 8' x 6' each (I know, a little wider than you're supposed to go, but I'll make it work ).

In those beds will go things like green beans, peas, various peppers, tomatoes, okra, celery, carrots. Along the back fence I'm going to just mound some extra good dirt up, maybe with a little border to keep it contained and put the pumpkins and zucchini there. I'm going to keep herbs in pots on the deck to keep from cluttering up the garden. Also I think I will keep strawberries up there as well, maybe they will stay better protected that way?

I agree with the rec to rethink the size of your beds and will go one step further. Take your boards out to the yard with your tape measure; set up your raised bed with no dirt and then practice reaching across the bed without stepping foot into it. Adjust your beds until you can do this comfortably because you will be working in the beds for probably twenty minutes to an half-hour at a time.

Are you planning to trellis the pumpkin and zucchini up the back fence? If not, they may not get enough sunlight with everything else in front of them. I would probably put the peas, beans, and tomatoes along the back fence because they generally require a trellis or staking and will grow taller than the ground vines. (This assumes you are placing your raised beds in front of the back fence.)

Check with your local dirt places for topsoil, etc. as you will need a fair bit; I'd estimate at least 1 yd per bed. Also check craigslist for composted manure; I bought 3 yds today for $27/yd (delivered) and it was beautiful. I just finished setting up my strawberry pyramid.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5029194_buil...nter-home.html

Also here is a link detailing some of the things you can do with coffee grounds:

http://organicgardening.about.com/od...feegrounds.htm

[Erinz]

I'm thirding the suggestion to re-think the bed sizes. It will be a total pain in the arse to re-do those lovelies! Do it right the first time, gardening is enough work w/o having to do the big stuff twice. (trust me )

I've never met a climbing zucchini? Did I read that wrong?

I would not buy topsoil for a veggie garden. It has a ton of sand in it and you could buy that cheaper if you need/want it. I'd buy compost and mix it in with what I have, OR if it is composted enough that it isn't at all hot still (you can feel it with your hand if it is) I'd use soley good compost. That is all I add to my beds now. We purchased a big load of it this year to expand the garden. If you call trucking companies (the kind of companies who work with contractors for transfers, etc) they will likely have a good hold on who has decent compost near you. You won't be sorry for investing in good solid soil!

Everyone gave great avice, that was fun to read

[Minxie]

You can use an A frame trellis if you want your gourd vegetables to grow on a trellis. It takes up less space and keeps them off the ground; you can support the fruits with pantyhose tied to the trellis.

Here's an example:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2224037_buil...e-trellis.html

[Tarielena]

Okay here are the official measurements: one bed is 12 x 5 feet and the other is 5 x 5.5 feet. You are all right that 6 feet would have been too much. I know 5 is still wide, but I don't have any other area that I could use to make another seperate bed, so to maximize the space I do have I still kept it a little wide.

The beds are by the back of the house, and the fence is along the back edge of the back yard, so they will not be blocking the area the pumpkins etc. will be in and all the areas get a decent amount of sun.

I like the idea of getting the zucchini off the ground with the frame, I will have to try that. And thanks everyone for the info on coffee grounds! I bet I will get at least something besides pumpkins to grow this year

Has anyone looked into the companion gardening stuff? If you've tried it, do you think it made a difference?

[Chicky2]

Companion planting....Yes, I believe it makes a difference if you grow herbs, flowers, and at least veggies, together.

[Minxie]

If you grow the zucchini or whatever on an A frame, you can plant lettuces or other cool-weather crops under the A frame (between the two sides). The zucchini will provide lots of shade for the lettuces.