keeping the military out of our elementary schools - Page 3

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by philomom

Back in the early 80's in Georgia .. we used to get a "puppet show for Jesus" come around to the schools. I sat through it for years until high school when I literally took on the principal to point out how unfair it was to the godless, like me and the jesusless, like my Jewish friend. The puppets still came, but anyone who didn't want to see it could go hang in the library. I won a great victory that day.Can you see why I left the South?

Um, I live in the South and there are no Jesus puppets touring my school district .

[philomom]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

Um, I live in the South and there are no Jesus puppets touring my school district .

I'm sure by now they all know they couldn't get away with it. I'm sure the Dark Ages are over in the sunny South by 2010.

[Valval]

I'm wondering if the OP would also be concerned about a member of the military coming in on career day?
Usually when parents come in to talk about their career's they talk about the positive aspects of it, which can sound an awful lot like recruiting.
Would it be objectionable if little Susie's mommy the Army nurse in the national guard came in and talked to her daughters class while in uniform?

Personally I think the more educated a student is about the military the better decisions they can make if they ever entertain the idea of service.
Really, the more you know (ding, ding, ding, ding, shooting star.....) the better you can work the system.
And the military system can be worked to the advantage of the individual.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by SunshineJ

I personally know several people who have been blatently lied to in order to be recruited.

I was in the military on active duty for six years, and then an active reservist for another four years. I have heard a handful of sailors and Marines claim that they were lied to. I'm skeptical. I think it's more likely that 1) the recruit didn't pay attention, or 2) the individual regretted signing up and wanted to place blame on someone for their dissatisfaction.

Originally Posted by Aka mommy

Not all soldiers go to war. Not all soldiers support the war. Not all soldiers FIGHT in a war. Many do, yes. But it is a decision that they willingly make, whether you or I agree with it. But there are also many soldiers who serve the homefront and never set foot in war territory. They stay here to protect and serve our states.

I know where you're coming from, but really....there are those in the service who seem taken aback when they DO get mobilized....what did they think they were joining? The Boy Scouts? Once you've signed up, you've made the choice to go where Uncle Sam tells you to go....so in all seriousness, ALL members of the armed services have made the decision to go to war once they've signed the contract.

However, although defense and war are the main purposes of the armed services, it is a great way to get education and training. My ex-husband is a cardiovascular technician in the Navy. He will be retiring in a year or two after doing his twenty years....and he won't even be forty yet. He'll be making good money in the civilian world, plus collecting his military pension. Not bad for a kid from a blue collar family and no college.

[handspun]

Originally Posted by Valval

I'm wondering if the OP would also be concerned about a member of the military coming in on career day?
Usually when parents come in to talk about their career's they talk about the positive aspects of it, which can sound an awful lot like recruiting.
Would it be objectionable if little Susie's mommy the Army nurse in the national guard came in and talked to her daughters class while in uniform?

I would have a problem with it, actually. I guess this isn't the popular opinion here, but that would not sit well with me and, again, I would want notification ahead of time. (And would hope that the school could have a peace activist, or someone else representing a similar point of view come in as well.)

[handspun]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

OP, do you have time to volunteer? Could you perhaps start some type of communication structure. If you could get parents email addys and send school info there, then parents w/out computer access could get paper copies and the school would use a lot less paper than if everyone needed a copy.

I do volunteer and send emails and make phone calls to families. There is a TON of work that needs to be done regarding the communication structure at our school. A TON. But that's probably a topic for another day.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by handspun

I would have a problem with it, actually. I guess this isn't the popular opinion here, but that would not sit well with me and, again, I would want notification ahead of time. (And would hope that the school could have a peace activist, or someone else representing a similar point of view come in as well.)

If the school is recruiting, ok. But if a group offers to perform and the school wants to accept, does than mean they need to find an anti-military chorus? (just because one is in the military does not mean they don't hope that peaceful means prevail before use of the military is considered)

[handspun]

Originally Posted by spedteacher30

then, I am not sure you need to do much more. The principal was unhappy, she expressed her concern to the program director, and is highly unlikely to bring them in again. Unless your school board specifically has a policy that prevents the principal from using her discretion about assemblies, the easiest way to make sure this doesn't happen again is probably to leave it alone. the path of least resistance is often the easiest. if you make a big deal out of it, you are likely to attract the attention of people who disagree with you and the principal, and will work to ensure full, unfettered access.

I used to be the union president and learned early that asking for policy can often backfire, and it is best to trust the good intentions of the decision makers until they prove otherwise.

Thanks for that perspective. We are in a kind of weird position in that our principal and our top three teacher leaders were actually just fired with the option to finish out the school year. It seems like an opportune time for parents to let the super and the board know about concerns and ask for changes, but I could be missing something.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

I hope you don't have plans to move to SA Texas. This is a huge military town. Many parents come to pick up their children in uniform,.

I was kinda thinking the same thing. We live near a HUGE air force base and many kids have military parents. It's normal to see parents in uniform. My kids know which of their classmates have a parent deployed. Heck, one of my DD's friend's MOTHER just got back from the middle east.

There are all kinds of people in the military -- liberals, gays, you name it.

One great thing about the air force is the support they provide to families of special needs kids -- they have the most liberal policy for paying for therapiest and they provide free legal help to parents having problems with the local school system.

Saying bad things about the military wouldn't go over well here at all, but not because any one likes war (too many people here have seen it first hand).

Besides, people here know about specific things people do, which makes it seem different. Our base does a lot of medical evacuations, so the person you see in a flight suit might be a nurse who flies in and out of war zone ( or Haiti) caring for the wounded as they are taken to better medical facilities.

[Azik's mom]

Given the circumstances the OP described I too would be concerned. If it was career day and various careers being explored that would be fine. As an educator working in low income communities I know that the military targets these group. While there may be benefits there are also some other aspects that no one really tells you about. My observation is that even for career days, depending on the schools, lower income kids are often limited to the choices they are exposed to, and there is often a strong military presence.

So no problem if one decides to be involved in the military but it's not ok if the information is limited, one sided and only for certain kids.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by philomom

I'm sure by now they all know they couldn't get away with it. I'm sure the Dark Ages are over in the sunny South by 2010.

Well sure, that one town in Mississippi even has *gasp* mixed-race dances now!

Which just makes you wonder if any other towns down there are still having segregated proms.

[spedteacher30]

Originally Posted by handspun

Thanks for that perspective. We are in a kind of weird position in that our principal and our top three teacher leaders were actually just fired with the option to finish out the school year. It seems like an opportune time for parents to let the super and the board know about concerns and ask for changes, but I could be missing something.

I think if I were you, I would wait and see who the new principal is (or mention your feelings to people on the interview team and see if they can ask something that would get at this issue) and then proceed from there. I really would be concerned that by making it a public deal, you'd be inviting controversy where there might not really be any.

the most i would probably do is make an appointment with the superintendent and ask for clarification about the policy surrounding assemblies and military presence.

[RoundAbout]

Just wanted to point out that I do think military targets low-income/minority and a lot of it has to do with the NIMBYism (Not in My Backyard) attitude among a lot of middle class white communities who have the resources and clout to keep recruiters out. I'm not even convinced its political or has anything to do with the war but a question of class (ie. *MY* kid is too good for service, they're going to go to college and get rich). Not saying that its an attitude here, but its really common. My own MIL was horrified that my husband enlisted back in 1997 and even now that he's a successful mid-career officer he gets comments about wasting his talents and asked when is he going to do something more important/lucrative.

I'm not a huge fan of recruiters but I have friends who have done that job and I can say that it is an utterly crappy, marriage-destroying, self-esteem destroying job. Suicide rates and depression are actually really high on recruiting duty and it is a job that at least in the Marine Corps is almost never voluntary. Many of these guys drive all around the state and never get a day off in 3 years and are under enormous pressure. I don't blame them for going after the easy "sale" rather trying to fight a bunch of hostile middle class families in the suburbs just to get a chance to talk about the military as a career.

[kate42]

Originally Posted by handspun

(And would hope that the school could have a peace activist, or someone else representing a similar point of view come in as well.)

I don't think it's fair to assume that everyone in the military is anti-peace. The above quote makes it seem like the counterpoint to an Army reserve nurse is a peace activist???

I don't want the military actively recruiting my first-grader. Then again, I don't want ANY industry actively recruiting her. But I don't know if I would consider ROTCs singing the Simpsons theme song as the start of long-term recruitment. Yeah, they told her that being in the service is cool. But I could tell my DD that I'm not in the service and I'm just as cool.

I'd rather be the counterpoint and explain my own values to my child. This is a teaching lesson, mama. Embrace it and instill in your child your passion for peace. Trust me, your word means more, even if you don't sing the Spongebob song.

[SunshineJ]

[QUOTE=ellemenope;15306149][QUOTE=SunshineJ;15305853]
I personally know several people who have been blatently lied to in order to be recruited.

I don't think blatent lying is as common as you might think.

This may be quite true. I know of only a handfull of people who have been in the military (maybe a dozen?) and of those people, 4 were most definitely mislead and lied to. One didn't really care, two were given an early honorable discharge due to the circumstances (with one resulting in an investigation and disciplinary action against the recruiting station) and one almost walked away until the AF put the agreed upon terms in writing. So while it may be an uncommon occurance, 4 out of 12 people seems like a very high ratio to me.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by AFWife

Can I ask a question? When I was in high school a model/acting scouting company came and set up a booth during lunch. They offered cards and a chance to win a free class. My parents were FURIOUS but okay when the military did the same thing. What are your feelings on that?
(I'm not picking a fight, I really want your opinion)

I'm with your parents on that. The reality is very very few have what it takes to make it as a model/actor those who do can easily enough find a phone # for a reputable agency.

To me the big issue would be that the school had been promised A (an enriching concert) and was given B (a half assed concert and recruitment talk.) It was not age appropriate (no military branch takes kindergarteners) and not in context to the event.

Now if the high school was having a college recruitment fair, it would be fine if along side Harvard, Julliard and the local community college they also had West Point and some ROTC people. Around Veterans Day it makes sense to have Veterans who have served come in and talk about their service. It even seems fine to have a recruiter come to a career fair where people from many proffessions/companies come and share career details and talk about employment options opportunities, but not before junior high school.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by handspun

I would have a problem with it, actually. I guess this isn't the popular opinion here, but that would not sit well with me and, again, I would want notification ahead of time. (And would hope that the school could have a peace activist, or someone else representing a similar point of view come in as well.)

In elementary school, career day is usually students' parents coming in to talk about their own careers. So what if no student in your child's class had a parent to counter the career Army parent? Should that parent be barred from attending?

[aslyn]

I would have no problem with this group performing at my kids school. I had more trouble with explaining why we didn't "celebrate" Easter like "all the other kids" with big family dinners and church. And why they only get 1 cereal bar for snack time instead of several like "all the other kids"

My family has quite a few people in various branches of the military and military advisors. Neither my DH or I have considered a military career there are a lot of vets in the family that always speak positively about their experiences. I agree with 1 one the PP's that to a kid that a "soldier" is a really cool job. So is being a fire-fighter, a police officer, astronaut, even a cow-boy/girl can be appealing to an elementary student. My Dh is a chef by trade and I am a inside sales woman (I am a glorified telemarketer basicly!). I really don't see a lot of kids thinking it would be way cool to talk on the phone all day and getting told off (yeah its really not that fun) or cook and serve food to a bunch of people. Nor do I expect that garbage men/women (there is a term for this which has slipped my mind apologies to anyone who may do this) or a janitor, or a factory worker would be that appealing. BUT these are all important jobs to keep our communities running smoothly and efficiently and so is being part of the military.

My DH and I realize when it comes time for our kids to grow up, get jobs and move out they are going to do what they decide to do. I don't feel it is my place as a parent to tell them this job is better than that job. They are going to have their own experiences and its my job to support their decisions not to push my insecurities on them.

[amma_mama]

The principal did not invite in the mob or some illegal entity into the school. The military is, after all, part of our government. I take issue with how our Government has chosen to utilise the military. I also take issue with tax policy in this country, but I would not ask a school to ban the IRS from putting on a show and talking about that part of government. I would, however, take issue with Sponge Bob.

I agree that I would expect a school to notify parents of ANY outside individuals or groups that are coming to interact with my child. However, it is up to me as a parent to explain my personal position to my own kids. I would use it as an opportunity to teach about how our government operates and to explain to my children the role of the military, both the positives (the individuals that are willing to give up their own lives to protect the rest of us) and negatives such as the influence on the decisions of our elected leaders through the different channels of power.

[amcal]

You can't protect your children from all things you don't agree with.

What about career day at school where the kids get to bring in their parents and they talk about their jobs - there may be cops, bank executives, lawyers, meat packers etc... most everyone could find something offensive in the jobs others do.

But, I think it does your children a disservice to hide them away and not allow them to be exposed to careers that you have a personal issue with. The better option would be to talk to your child. Educate them. Get their thoughts. Let them know yours.