keeping the military out of our elementary schools - Page 5

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by SoCaliMommy

OP~ What if your child later in life decided they wanted to join the military ? Would you keep them from joining?

If you would that is sad that you would force your child to find a job they didn't want to do all because of your evident dislike for the military.

Not the OP, but I am working and will continue to work hard to make sure that my kids don't join the military. Obviously once they are adults, I can't keep them from joining. But I can let them know my opinion about it and I would never be "supportive" of it, whatever that means.

There are plenty of different types of careers, and if they don't join the military, it doesn't mean they will be wanting for work.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by zinemama

It was a former US Marine who described the military like that to me. His exact words were, "The entire purpose of the military is to wreck sh!t and kill people and to train soldiers not to question doing it."

Well, although Marines do not like to hear it or be reminded of it....they fall under the Department of the Navy and are basically the ground troops for the Navy. So yes, their purpose is to wreck stuff and kill people. They are fighting forces. However, when the military is utilized properly by a competent Commander in Chief, the ends are supposed to justify the means.

Yes, soldiers are trained to fight. However, the military is far more than just soldiers. I was a Hospital Corpsman, so I was not trained to fight.

And yes, recent wars are sketchy in nature. That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep a strong, well-trained military for those times when war IS necessary.

Your Marine acquaintance sounds like one of those kids who thought signing up meant nothing more than a steady paycheck and wearing a cool uniform, and then got angry when he was actually made to do the job he signed up for.

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by EFmom

Not the OP, but I am working and will continue to work hard to make sure that my kids don't join the military. Obviously once they are adults, I can't keep them from joining. But I can let them know my opinion about it and I would never be "supportive" of it, whatever that means.

There are plenty of different types of careers, and if they don't join the military, it doesn't mean they will be wanting for work.

This is my position, too. People always ask, "But what if your kids decide to join the military?" Yes, that might happen. I cannot physically prevent my grown children from doing what they want, career-wise. But while I'm raising them, I can work hard to make sure they won't seriously consider the military as an option as adults.

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Your Marine acquaintance sounds like one of those kids who thought signing up meant nothing more than a steady paycheck and wearing a cool uniform, and then got angry when he was actually made to do the job he signed up for.

Perhaps he does sound that way. But in fact, he was a patriotic young man who was disillusioned and deeply sickened by the things he was ordered to do, for reasons he could not justify.

I agree that we need a trained army for the times when war is necessary. But I won't call what our army is currently doing and has done in the past several wars "necessary."

[2xy]

Originally Posted by zinemama

I agree that we need a trained army for the times when war is necessary. But I won't call what our army is currently doing and has done in the past several wars "necessary."

Neither will I. But the problem is generally not the military. The problem is the government officials who give the orders.

If you don't want your kids to possibly die for causes you don't find worthy, then it's fine to say that. But the armed services themselves are not evil entities; they're generally as efficient or corrupt as their politicians tell them to be.

[AFWife]

Has anyone considered that the military aren't the only professions that kill people? Granted, when it's a police officer it's usually self defense...but they too handle firearms on a regular basis. (I know a lot of MDC mamas are against firearms in general...)

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by AFWife

Has anyone considered that the military aren't the only professions that kill people? Granted, when it's a police officer it's usually self defense...but they too handle firearms on a regular basis. (I know a lot of MDC mamas are against firearms in general...)

I wouldn't be OK with my children doing anything requiring guns. But my aversion to them joining the military goes beyond that.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by EFmom

I wouldn't be OK with my children doing anything requiring guns. But my aversion to them joining the military goes beyond that.

That's sort of my point. A lot of moms have said, "I wouldn't be okay with the military coming on career day." or "They'd better have a Peace Whatever (I can't find the exact term) to balance it out." What about a police officer? Or a taxidermist? Or someone that works in a slaughterhouse? Do we ban those parents as well because they work in violent professions?

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by AFWife

That's sort of my point. A lot of moms have said, "I wouldn't be okay with the military coming on career day." or "They'd better have a Peace Whatever (I can't find the exact term) to balance it out." What about a police officer? Or a taxidermist? Or someone that works in a slaughterhouse? Do we ban those parents as well because they work in violent professions?

Well, we opt our kids out of the DARE program, and we do work to try to get it out of the schools.

I wouldn't have a problem with a cop or a member of the military (or a taxidermist for that matter) coming once to a career day. At a career day, the person's reason for attending is pretty clear, although I do think the military is more predatory than are your average career day participants. Your typical taxidermist or dermatologist doesn't have much of a vested interest in whether or not a high school kid wants to follow in their footsteps. The same is not true of a military recruiter.

What I object to is the stealth recruiting that starts in elementary school. The military comes in with carefully crafted programs designed to get the kids attracted. I don't want cops in the schools either, because their motives aren't just informational, either. I don't care if the dentist comes in. She's giving a talk about the importance of flossing, not trying to make kids think dentists are cool.

The military is not like other professions. In other professions you can leave pretty easily at any time. "I quit" and walk out the door. Other professions don't tell you where you will live, how you may or may not express yourself, have their own judicial system, etc. It is far more all consuming and a whole lot more dangerous than most jobs.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by AFWife

Or someone that works in a slaughterhouse?

We're vegetarians, so a slaughter house worker would bother me more than most military personnel.

[lauren]

Thread returned. Please remember to keep the discussion civil and respectful and focused upon the OP.

[mattemma04]

I do not approve it and would keep my kids home for that day. What is going on with the military and the *wars* they have created is not something I want my children to grow up thinking is a good thing.

If others support it that is their choice,but I never agreed with entering countries and CREATING conflict.It is shameful. If more schools agree to do these shows it will become the norm in all states.

[lauren]

I have a suggestion to keep conflict down: how about if the focus in on whether the military should be in schools, NOT whether the military is a good thing or not (since the latter topic would not be included in Learning at School anyway).

[handspun]

Originally Posted by lauren

I have a suggestion to keep conflict down: how about if the focus in on whether the military should be in schools, NOT whether the military is a good thing or not (since the latter topic would not be included in Learning at School anyway).

Thanks lauren. When I posted originally, I was wary of offending people but I underestimated the degree of emotion that some posters might feel about this. My intent was never to upset anyone. I do have my own thoughts about the military and about peace activism; apparently my views are dissimilar to views that other posters hold dear. My contention is that whether or not one wholeheartedly supports the armed services (and what that means is so open-ended and beyond the what I hoped to focus on here), I would hope that we could all agree that our kids deserve an education as free from certain influences as possible. I'll admit that I have been surprised by how that basic premise is apparently very debatable.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by handspun

I would hope that we could all agree that our kids deserve an education as free from certain influences as possible.

When you choose to send your children to public school you accept that the gov't gets to indoctrinate them to whatever views it sees fit. That's just the way it goes. They're teaching graphic sex ed in elementary schools, basic masturbation in high school, evolution as fact and not theory (those of us that believe in Creation Science have an issue with that one), and a slew of other things. So, I think that a for fun assembly with the military is low on the list of problems facing today's youth. Yes, part of that view is that I have zero problems with the military. I was shocked at how many parents wanted to keep the military out of things like career day too.
There are worse careers, in my opinion, than working behind a desk (like my husband does) for the US military. Not all military personnel are over seas with guns.
In fact, there is a group in the Air Force called Tops in Blues that their JOB for at least a year is traveling the world as a performance troop. It's entirely possible that's the kind of group that came to your child's school. They aren't recruiters, they're basically a musical theatre group.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by handspun

I would hope that we could all agree that our kids deserve an education as free from certain influences as possible. I'll admit that I have been surprised by how that basic premise is apparently very debatable.

Remember the Santa in school debate we had back in December? It would seem we can't even agree on what falls under separation of church and state.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by handspun

My contention is that whether or not one wholeheartedly supports the armed services (and what that means is so open-ended and beyond the what I hoped to focus on here), I would hope that we could all agree that our kids deserve an education as free from certain influences as possible. I'll admit that I have been surprised by how that basic premise is apparently very debatable.

Why would you be surprised that not everyone thinks that we should treat the military as something to shelter our children from? The military isn't an illegal or immoral career choice that we have to shelter children from in school. It is a perfectly legitimate and responsible career choice that many wonderful people choose to pursue. If the schools were to invite drug dealers in to sing then that would be obviously wrong. Inviting people holding legal and respectable careers in isn't. I want our schools to shelter children from bad and illegal influences, not from legal and respectful ones. The purpose of public education is to broaden a child's knowledge, if they were to limit all influences that any small sector has a problem with then they would have hardly any material to work with.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Inviting people holding legal and respectable careers in isn't.

What about a tobacco farmer? There are many people in this country who make their livings growing tobacco. Some even grow organic tobacco. Many of the founding fathers of this country grow tobacco. There are people who use small amounts of tobacco very occasionally for ceremonial only. Tobacco farming is perfectly legal and considered respectable by many.

However, in general we avoid exposing young children to tobacco. We know that tobacco is frequently abused and is very dangerous.

How about a group of moms who all work at the local strip club. These are entertainers. They are working hard to provide for their families. This again is perfectly legal.

Legal and respectable does not equate to appropriate for very young children. There is a place in our world for all kinds of professions that are basically part of a grown up world. There are reasons one must be 17 yo in order to join the military. What ever one generally thinks of the military, I think we can all agree that it is a serious decision that should not be taken lightly. Joining the military isn't like getting a job at the mall.

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by AFWife

They're teaching graphic sex ed in elementary schools, basic masturbation in high school

They are teaching kids to masturbate in the Texas public schools?

I'm surprised I haven't heard about that, what with how much there's been in the news lately about the influence of a small group of Christian fundamentalists on the curriculum in that state. Learn something new every day!

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by AFWife

They're teaching graphic sex ed in elementary schools, basic masturbation in high school,

not in our school district.

I've seen the sex ed materials and was shocked at how little information was presented. Kids who don't have parents who speak frankly with them will be left learning about sex the old fashioned way, from their friends!

Our school communicates with parents about topics they believe may be sensitive and parents can opt out. We even had parents opt out of having their kids listen to Obama's speech last year (which I thought was silly of the parents, but good for the school for realizing that some parents would have strong views.)

I don't believe that I've turned my kids over for indoctrination, and our school staff has never acted like that.

Just curious if you send your kids to school and if you are talking from personal experience.