Pre-teens and facebook - please help!

[neonalee]

My DSD is 11 and "all" her friends are on facebook (I don't know if 'all' is an exaggeration or not, but I know more than a couple are). Her mom and dad are in agreement that she is not allowed to have a FB account because 1. She's not 13 and had to lie to get it and 2. She's not mature enough (this is true). A couple of months ago she told us that one of her friends had called her up and said 'here's your fb account' essentially. My theory is she wanted us to be glad that she didn't lie and since she offered to give us the password and friend us (she did friend us but we did not accept or reject), then we would let her keep it. Needless to say we all had a bad weekend full of drama, tears, yelling, etc. She said several times her friend had told her not to tell her parents and that said friend was right. I responded that her father and I trust her and if she lied we would no longer trust her. FB was blocked for her devices at the router at both her mom's house and ours. Mom sent a compliaint/notificaton to FB (I don't know why either of them didn't just make her log in and delete the account). She spends the majority of her time at school or 1 of our houses. I believe she was not allowed to use internet for awhile, I can't remember. A month after that or so her iTouch was taken away again for using FB (they were out somewhere). Lots of drama this time because she swears she didn't. Not having been there DP and I said that sometimes apps autologin when they can and if she was being honest and hadn't done so then she should remove the app from her iTouch (I'm pretty sure she didn't remove it).

Today I went to accept a friend request and I saw that her picture had changed. Email conversation between me and DP:
me: Is your daughter still not allowed to use FB?
DP: Yeah, why?
M: Well, somehow her profile picture was updated
D: Hrm. Taken this weekend, looks like. Might have snapped it then emailed it to a friend, or herself, and changed it out when she had access.
M: Yeah. I’m thinking you and her mom need to talk and come up with a plan of action. I checked online and apparently FB has a bad rep for not doing anything when notified of minor accounts. Part of me thinks being more restrictive is worse, however she proves over and over she’s not ready for it and can’t be trusted with it. This will not be a good weekend I think.
D: I read through a bunch of DSD emails. Seems she found out her mom’s network password about 3 weeks ago, and has been facebooking since then at home. (Note - I believe DSD has given DP her password)
M: I’m not sure if I would tell DSDs mom that or not. DSD should NOT know and it would eventually come out.
Question 1 would be, do you want to talk to DSDs mom first or DSD first?
I might next ask DSD straight out if she’s been using FB. I might then bring up the picture. She terrible at lying when faced directly, at least as far as I know.
I would make her sign in and delete the account.
I might ground her from phone, internet, iTouch (to be held in our keeping) for at least a month at our house (Note - we have her every weekend). I would even be tempted to take away the iTouch for a long time.
And of course all needs to be discussed with DSD's mom. I would let DSD come up with how she’s been accessing it. Good if she admits it, if she lies, I’m sorry to say at least we’ll be aware for future. I would not accuse her of something she shouldn’t know you know.


I (we) are suddenly deep in uncharted waters. We've been suspecious of DSD lying/going behind our backs more recently and this confirms it. The above conversation was my initial reaction. I don't know anything about parenting other then how I was brought up and what I've read/observed. I've been told I am a great parent, but I have no idea what to do here. I don't make any final decisions where DSD is concerned (unless something happens while DP isn't around) but we generally discuss and come to agreement when issues come up. The co-parenting situation is also pretty stable and in agreement, as much as possible anyway, and I get along with DSDs mom. DP and I had already been discussing closer monitoring and limits on her internet time. Limiting all of our time actually.

Please help! Any opinions on good course of action? Do and/or don't? What would you do?

[MusicianDad]

You can't actually delete facebook accounts. What you (or DH or bio mom) can do, if you still have the password, is log in change the password and deactivate the account. It's fairly straight forward. And explain to DSD that since you can't currently trust her to stay off the account, it will be kept that way until it is decided she is old enough and mature enough to have the account back.

[dinan6]

We had to deactivate dds fb about 6 months ago she is 16. She was lying and just making bad decisions for herself. One thing I have learned having a teenager is to trust your gut instinct, every time mine is correct. It's that crazy Mama instinct... I do think that 11 is very young to have a fb.. Maybe you should ask around to the other parents, sometimes it's not that many friends that have what she wants, not that it really matters but might give you some perspective from other parents. Keep doing what you think is best for her. My daughter informed me the other day that technically she doesn't exist because she's not active on fb... How crazy is that, she gets to hang out with friends, talk on the phone, horseback ride, have a REAL life...but because she's not on fb she says she doesn't exist to anyone else... It really doesn't worry me, she exists to me and I think she's doing great right now... Parenting a teen is freakin hard.......

[mama2toomany]

My older boys 13 and 12 have accounts, they are only allowed to put children on it that they know, and are not allowed to have any adults on it at all.

I do check it regularly and it hasn't had any drama yet.

i am sorry you are going through this! hugs

[neonalee]

Oh boy today has been fun. Around 1 DP asked DSD when was the last time she was on fb. She said in March when she was on vaca. DP left the room, probably to avoid completely blowing up. Came back and said, I think you're lying to me, in fact, I know you are. There have been 4 top of the lungs crying spells/tantrums since then. Not because she was caught lying. Because first the iTouch was taken from her then because she found out the computer would be as well. "you're taking everything from me" Well, yes we are. Why is that a surprise? I was really proud of DP. He did not yell, scream, get sarcastic, nothing. Was very calm about it all, told her how disappointed he was, etc. Later he is going to have her log in and he is going to change the password on the account. He asked if she remembered why he told her she couldn't be on fb. She said 'because you think it's stupid'. Do they really believe the things they say? Because it was explained to her (previously) several times that this was about a. lying and b. lack of maturity. DP said to her today, no, you can't use fb because I don't think you are mature enough and ever since you've proved that to be true.

This is the part that makes me crazy. Right now they are at the park. And there has been discussion about her having a sleep over sometime soon. Um ... WHAT?! He asked if I thought he was doing the wrong thing. I said, when I was in that much trouble as a kid I was grounded and I didn't get to do anything fun, that was my parents and he had to make his own choices.

I guess part of this is divorce guilt? She laid it on really thick about how everyone lies and no one loves her, they're just lying, everyone thinks she's horrible, etc. She tore up the picture of her and DP Of course he's really hurt. And he's really worried too. He acknowledges her apparent lack of morality. This isn't the first lie Ugh. I can't even look at her right now.

[Kindermama]

It makes it so much harder for more conscious parents when other parents let their kids have access to FB and other sites so soon. I can imagine the peer pressure your DD is under to conform and now you guys are the enemies getting in her way. There is no easy way out of it aside from love and consistency.

[MusicianDad]

Honestly, neon, I don't think she really needs to be grounded. Though more restricted internet access might be in order. Just my opinion though, I tend to make sure there is an obvious connection to the act when it comes to punishment. Taking away the iTouch is a connection she has no doubt all ready made, the same with restricted internet use. Being grounded, not so much. Not allowing anything fun would be overkill and probably just make her more resistant to understanding the situation.

[karne]

I have a same aged dd. Not on FB, and won't be for a while as far as I can tell because 1. she's not old enough and 2. not really interested yet. So we haven't had that drama, but I do know drama from other areas of life, lol. I think we have to stand very steady in the face of lots of emotion, and try not to take it all personally. And, I'm going to agree w/MD's advice in the above post. Grounding does seem like overkill. I think that you all have made your point. I think that there is a place we can get to where we're tempted to bury our kids with taking away privileges, etc., and the reality is that they got it the first time around. Too much that feels like deprivation can be counterproductive, in my mind. It's funny-when my dd thinks we're going to go off the deep end w/taking away stuff that's important to her, she tends to be very unreachable (duh!) But once the consequence seems to really fit the situation, with no overkill, the doors are much more open for conversation and reaching some common ground. For us anyway, this is the goal. I know my child will push the limits at some point, and I get that peer pressure today is extremely motivating. I want to leave room for the mistakes to happen, and the relationship and conversation to continue. It's a tough balance, and I feel for you.

[NettleTea]

Originally Posted by neonalee

Right now they are at the park. And there has been discussion about her having a sleep over sometime soon. Um ... WHAT?!

She can't use facebook, she can't have sleepovers, she stays grounded - what is she supposed to do? Sit in her room bored all day? That's not very effective, imo.

A sleepover sounds like a positive way of re-directing her attention.

Punishing over and over does not produce good results.

How about some open communication? Has anyone done this? She may be a child, but she is equally a human being. "I understand that FB means a lot to you. Will you tell me why? Oh, I see. I understand this is important to you. At the same time we are not comfortable with you visiting with Facebook. Is there something else that appeals to you that we could help you to pursue?" Validate her feelings.

[Tjej]

My kids aren't that age yet, so take what I have however you like.

When I am having issues with my kids I try to step back and think about what my parenting goals are. Put simply: I want to raise loving, responsible kids. So then I think, how do I get there?

And if my kids were as old as your DSD I'd talk about that with them as well. What my parenting goals are/what her growing up goals are, and how we can work together to make them happen.

It's about developing mutual respect. I am sure the lying must really hurt you. And maybe she doesn't quite understand how hurtful lying is. Or if she is saying that she does because she was lied to in the divorce, maybe connecting the pain of that lying to the pain of her current lying might be helpful. But I'd lead into a conversation like that by asking her questions (Can you think of a time you've been lied to? How did you feel? Did you trust the person the next time they told you something? Can you see how lying about this makes it hard for us to trust you? How do you think we can work to rebuild that trust?).

By the time they are preteens or teens I generally think a person has to move beyond "punishment" to "respect" because, well, punishment seems to build resentment in kids who are older and more able to reason. Not that there wouldn't be consequences for poor behavior, but that those consequences would be clear and considered together (and possibly understood beforehand).

HTH.

Tjej

[sunnmama]

It sounds like you (the parents) and she are doing a lot of talking at each other, and not a lot of listening to each other. Have you really considered her point of view?

Imagine the peer pressure she is dealing with. A friend actually set up the acct???!! That is a LOT of pressure to use facebook. I'm sure the friends didn't just back off after you told her not to use the acct. I'm sure she is going to see their facebook pages when she is with them, and they will pressure her to log on to hers.

Have you talked to her about how to deal with that peer pressure? I'm not surprised she is taking the "easy" route and 1. telling her friends what they want to hear ("yes") and 2. telling you what you "want" to hear (lying...saying she doesn't use it). Even at my age, I sometimes get stuck in situations like that--two people who mean a lot to me expecting different things from me, and having to disappoint one of them. It's tough! As an adult, I can do it...but she is a child and still learning. As her parents, you need to help her with those tough situations.

[enkmom]

My nephew is 12 and has facebook. My sister allowed him to sign up with the stipulations that 1. She was his friend, 2. that she had his password. 3. he didn't friend anyone but school friends and family. My young adult children are his friends, and they have him on pretty strict privacy settings so he can't see anything he's not ready for on their pages. Honestly, mostly he wanted facebook to play the games. I am his friend, and his entire page is filled with Farmville and that fish game, with a few posts from his friends like "Hi" and "I'm bored, what's up?".

Whether we like it or not, facebook is the communication method of the moment, and each family has to decide for themselves how to use it. If you don't want her to have it, I understand and sympathize, but the pressure for her IS there. I would also advise against the grounding. In my experience, when you take everything away from a child, you end up with a child who has nothing to lose. What will you do the next time?

[neonalee]

Thank you so much everyone for the replies! I see the point about (my idea of) grounding being overly restrictive. Luckily her dad didn't take that viewpoint. I think this is one of those 'parenting the way I was parented' kinds of things. I'm willing to learn different ways

For what's it's worth we did have conversations about it, and did listen to her and validate her feelings. This is actually very important to both of us, but it usually seems that while we listen and consider her feelings, the opposite doesn't seem to happen. The night she came here and told us about the friend opening the account she and I had a long heart to heart, or so I thought. And the end advice I gave (and she agreed to) was that she should not bring it up again that weekend, give her dad time to cool down and then try to have a conversation about it. In all honesty I had planned to talk to DP later about how important it must be for her peer group and suggesting a heavily monitored account. But she brought it up constantly that weekend and after and there was no way I could suggest allowing it when she was proving right there she really wasn't ready for it.

Recently it's come out that she's allowing herself to be a victim of online bullying on Skype now (by people she doesn't know apparently). DP has given her tips for dealing ranging from ignoring to changing her account and giving her friends the new one. But all she does is cry about the names she's being called, etc. I really don't understand this. (We're aware she needs to talk to someone for this and other reasons, and she wants to as well, but we don't have custody so we're still working on it.)

Anyway, back to fb and lying. I think the eventual end result will be her having an account with strong oversight. I'm mostly ok with this as I really do understand she is dealing with a lot of peer pressure. My biggest problem with everything is the lying. I'll try to have the conversation with her mentioned above at some point. We really do have a good relationship, or at least did. We'll see what happens with teenage years. A lot of times she says she does stuff because "you'll xyz...". Where XYZ is usually something she has blamed her mother of and rarely anything we've actually done in our household. I'm getting into a lot of the divorce 'mom did x' stuff and that's too long for here, but I'll just say that plays into it too, and we don't know how accurate it is.

About peer pressure - how DO you deal with it? I've never really been that person, never had too much trouble saying no. So while I can see it's impossible for her, I don't know what tips to give her...

My last note - I am definitely one of the slow to anger but stay angry for awhile types, while DP blows up and it's over (same as DSD). So, I'm going to be pretty hands off, maybe through next weekend even, on this one. Then when I'm done being angry about it, I will watch for an opportune time to have this discussion with her. I might be here a lot over the next few years I think when I finally hit that limit of what I'll put up with I may have a tendency to react more harshly then the situation calls for. You all will be a good dose of reality for me. Thank you

[NettleTea]

Good luck!

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by neonalee

About peer pressure - how DO you deal with it? I've never really been that person, never had too much trouble saying no. So while I can see it's impossible for her, I don't know what tips to give her...

Some ideas--talk about it directly, role play and practice responses with her (help her come up with some responses she feels comfortable using), tell stories about times when you've dealt with the same issue--whether at her age or now. Also, I think finding a way to say "yes" to facebook (for instance, only with you sitting beside her) might help, because she could give the same "yes" to her friends: "I'll do that when I get on facebook at home". She's old enough to be active in the problem solving, although the adults definitely get the final say in matters of safety.

My last note - I am definitely one of the slow to anger but stay angry for awhile types, while DP blows up and it's over (same as DSD). So, I'm going to be pretty hands off, maybe through next weekend even, on this one. Then when I'm done being angry about it, I will watch for an opportune time to have this discussion with her. I might be here a lot over the next few years I think when I finally hit that limit of what I'll put up with I may have a tendency to react more harshly then the situation calls for. You all will be a good dose of reality for me. Thank you

You handled the criticism with such grace! And you obviously care very much about her. She is lucky to have you as a stepmom

[neonalee]

Thanks for the ideas and compliment sunnmama. I do try. I don't want to be the evil stepmom And really, she *needs* me.

Just to add to our weekend drama - school nights her bedtime is 9:30. Mom "caught" her trying to call dad after 9:30 so she (DSD) emailed him. 3 times. (1 of which was a fwd from a year ago about he was "supposed to make everything right") Apparently the computer that is IN HER ROOM doesn't have email blocked. Sigh. Sometimes this dual parenting thing is so hard. DP did talk to her on the phone and said rules need to be followed even when they are inconvenient for her. He asked her what rules she follows that she doesn't like and she couldn't come up with any. He tells me that mom is the threat without actual consequences type of parent I wonder how much of the stress between her and her mom is due to inability to follow rules (and moms inability to be consistent). Since we have her on the weekends there are less rules for her to follow and we don't run into this resistance all that often.

Question is, do we tell mom she was on her computer? I think yes, but as always, am willing to be wrong.

[Linda on the move]

why did she want to get a hold of her father?

I don't think a child should ever ever be punished for wanting to talk to a parent. What the heck would that teach them?

I would NOT rat her out for this. It would cut lines of communication between her and her father.

We are 100% available to our kids 24 hours a day, which is easier because we all live together. But a child who doesn't live with a parent should be able to call them or email them or text them any time they want to (IMHO).

[neonalee]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

why did she want to get a hold of her father?

I don't think a child should ever ever be punished for wanting to talk to a parent. What the heck would that teach them?

I would NOT rat her out for this. It would cut lines of communication between her and her father.

We are 100% available to our kids 24 hours a day, which is easier because we all live together. But a child who doesn't live with a parent should be able to call them or email them or text them any time they want to (IMHO).

She talks to dad several times every night, and calls when she's having trouble sleeping. I was worried about cutting lines of communication, exactly why I was asking, thank you We are definitely available at almost all times (barring things like flying or in meetings for something not critical). I think her mom was over reacting due to the trouble she was in, not necessarily angry for wanting to talk to her dad, just that it was bedtime and she wasn't following rules, as usual.

[WC_hapamama]

I allowed my 12 1/2 year old to sign up for facebook last month. The stipulation is that I also have the password (same with his e-mail account) and I can check on his activity whenever I want (which currently is daily).