Is it CIO if Daddy is lying right there?

[annemoonstar]

13 mo DS is currently crying in bed as I write this. DH is lying next to him and has essentially told me to leave and let him lie with DS until he falls asleep. With the exception of maybe 5 times I have ALWAYS put DS to bed, so this is really hard for me. DS usually goes to sleep between 7 and 7:30. At about 6:45 tonight he started acting tired, so we went upstairs and did the whole bedtime routine. He would start to seemingly fall asleep, then pop up and try to play--still looking incredibly sleepy. So we would start over with the last part of the routine. And he again would start to fall asleep, then pop up. After about an hour of this I was getting really frustrated. DH came in at about 8pm and for the first 15 minutes or so DS just laid there contently with DH. Then he started crying. I went up to help again but DH (probably rightly so) thinks I'm still too frustrated to keep trying with DS.

He has been crying now for at least 15 minutes. I am really torn--what should I do? Is it ok for him to cry himself to sleep if Daddy is lying next to him? Or should I go up and try again? How long to I wait? Help!!

I don't know how anyone lets their child CIO by themselves. This is killing me and I know DS is with a loving parent. Ugh.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Props to your husband for taking the initiative and being able to stomach that all by himself. I do not think it is CIO if your husband is right there. CIO means the child is alone, in their room, crying for there "Parent" who does not come in an attempt to "teach" them to soothe themselves. Your husband is lying right next to your son, who is over a year old. Therefore he can comprehend that daddy is right there, and mommy is nearby.

There is an MDC article kicking around that states the importance of showing comfort and support while a child is crying, but not ALWAYS trying to get them to stop. Obviously when they are infants, you check for a wet or dirty diaper, you make sure they are not hungry or in pain. However, at a year old, crying in a nurturing situation is supposed to be a healthy form of release for a child who is overstimulated and overtired.

Therefore, your child is in no way crying himself to sleep, but releasing all his frustration and energy in a loving and soothing enviroment (with your hubby)

[annemoonstar]

Thank you thank you for that. DS is quiet now, but DH has not emerged, so I assume he is not yet fully asleep. I really wanted to go "save" DS when he was crying and it took all I had to stay downstairs. Logically, I know it's better for all of us for DS to go to sleep for DH sometimes. And I am grateful for DH being available so that I can walk away if frustrated. But emotionally its tough to let him cry!

Thanks for your quick reply.

[transylvania_mom]

Not CIO if daddy is there to comfort him. You didn't let him cry, you did everything you could to put him to sleep. I agree with your husband that your presence at this point may do more harm than good. We went through the same thing when ds was 15 months and if I tried to put him to bed, all he wanted to do is keep playing. He ended up being more wind up with me there.

[Louisep]

Hugs.

Unsolicited advice.... I was losing my mind being the one to always put DS to sleep, so DH and I started doing it together. We read books and then lie one either side of DS until he falls asleep. Now, DS can fall asleep without me (it took a couple of months). Although we almost always put DS to bed together, I still appreciate having the company so we can roll eyes at each other if it's taking awhile.

Your DH was right to tell you to leave If it were me and I calmed down enough and DS started up again, I would go back in, but only if I were calm and it seemed like DH needed help.

[momma-z]

So, at what age do folks think it's okay for LO to cry if a parent is right there comforting them? I ask because DH often tries to comfort DS at night by walking around carrying him and gently patting/shushing him, but there is always some crying involved. Sometimes I wonder if it's any different than DH trying to comfort DS in the crib, with patting and shushing and holding an arm around him. At least he'd be in the crib and hopefully would *eventually* be able to put himself back to sleep.

[justKate]

annemoonstar, we're in the same situation, every night. Contrary to general advice, we started moving her bedtime back because we don't want to listen to the screaming. It seems like just when you get one routine down, something changes and you need to find a whole new one! But to answer your question, NO this is absolutely not CIO. Your DS is safe, warm, not hungry, with someone he trusts who loves him, being physically and emotionally comforted. Your DS is angry, understandably, because he'd rather be playing or nursing or something, but he is not scared. So it's okay to cry in anger with a loved one, as long as the "needs" are met.

When DD does this, (to keep myself calm), I tell her, "ooh! I know you're angry! You are so angry because you want to play. Mama's going to stay here and help you relax until you aren't angry anymore."

Originally Posted by momma-z

So, at what age do folks think it's okay for LO to cry if a parent is right there comforting them? I ask because DH often tries to comfort DS at night by walking around carrying him and gently patting/shushing him, but there is always some crying involved. Sometimes I wonder if it's any different than DH trying to comfort DS in the crib, with patting and shushing and holding an arm around him. At least he'd be in the crib and hopefully would *eventually* be able to put himself back to sleep.

Well my 2 cents is that it depends on the LO's understanding. My 14 mo. old will (begrudgingly) accept daddy as a comforter-back-to-sleep if he cuddles with her in our bed or walks with her. She would not accept being comforted in the crib, because the crib isn't a comforting place for her. We've tried. She hates it.

But maybe if you have a crib-sleeper it might work? I dunno.

[To-Fu]

No, it's not CIO if a parent is there comforting the child.

Here's a list of links to articles on the topic (this is also stickied at the top of the forum):

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=624394

[mamadaan]

Take him for a walk?

When my kids were this age, we had a lot of restless evenings. I think it had to do with a stage in their development together with the spring and early summer evenings that kept getting lighter and lighter. I remember going for a lot of evening walks. Sometimes DS was in a carrier and sometimes in a stroller. Sometimes he fell asleep and sometimes he did not. But it did reduce my level of frustration as I was not 'putting him to bed' all evening, but having a pleasant evening stroll.

Or could it be that he is just not really tired at the time you expect him to go to bed? Perhaps he is ready for a later bedtime or fewer/shorter daytime naps.

I hope you find a way to return the peace to your evenings soon.

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by momma-z

So, at what age do folks think it's okay for LO to cry if a parent is right there comforting them? I ask because DH often tries to comfort DS at night by walking around carrying him and gently patting/shushing him, but there is always some crying involved. Sometimes I wonder if it's any different than DH trying to comfort DS in the crib, with patting and shushing and holding an arm around him. At least he'd be in the crib and hopefully would *eventually* be able to put himself back to sleep.

Birth. If the baby is dry and feed why can't dad learn to comfort a child to sleep? What makes your efforts more supperior than his? Women have more opportunities to "perfect" getting the child to sleep earlier and reducing quiting earlier than men. This does not mean we are supperior just learn faster because we have had more opportunities to practice. Baby's will cry but it should be in loving arms. It doesn't matter if it is dad's or mom's. Want to build a responcible dad you need to back off sometimes and let him figure what works for him --- which might not work for you.

[momma-z]

Marsupialmom - maybe I didn't type what I meant - I agree with you completely about dad vs. mom comforting baby. What I meant was, does it make a difference whether dad (or mom) is comforting the baby while holding him and walking or while baby is in the crib with the parent's arm around him.

[crunchy_mommy]

momma-z -- If the crib is a happy, comfortable, secure place for your child, then I would think just hugging/patting him would be good. My DS, however, would be terrified if I put him in a crib and very angry if I just tried to pat him vs. holding him in my arms or lying beside him. So I think it very much depends on your kid. We don't even have a crib so that wouldn't make sense to me to do, but if they enjoy sleeping in a crib then that's different!

To the OP... I don't think that's CIO at all. Quite honestly (at least these days & for most of the previous 14mos) DS almost always cries if he's with DH instead of me. I hate for him to cry but I need an occasional break/help and DH needs to spend time with & comfort DS. I do think if your DH just layed there several feet away with his back turned to baby & just kind of "observed" until he fell asleep, that's not really the best idea, but if your DH is laying right beside him, trying to comfort/hold him, that is nothing like CIO.

[annemoonstar]

Maybe it was the "magic" of the evening!

Thanks all for your responses! The rest of the weekend was much better and more "normal" with regards to his bedtime routine. I'm not sure what happened on Friday night, although when DH came down that night he said the sweetest thing about it. He said something about how he remembers being little and finding something "magical" about the early evenings and felt that DS might be having a hard time going to sleep because he wants to enjoy that magic time of day. He said that's what made it easier to be with DS, even though he was crying, because he felt he understood.

BTW, DH does help with the bedtime routine--the three of us usually play together for a bit and the DH does the book reading after PJ and teethbrushing time. But DH has a bad back and related chronic pain so he has been hesitant to commit to anything regular beyond that.

On Friday night, we had some people over helping us with our garden. DS was in the ergo while we walked around the yard with them. When DS started resting his head on my chest in the ergo and making his "sleeping noises" I figured I should go in and put him down. I did the whole bedtime routine sans Daddy, but that's not that unusual. And thus started the whole drama. So maybe he was overtired, or maybe it was not having daddy there or knowing daddy was outside with new people, or maybe it was the "magic" of the evening. Hopefully we won't have a repeat performance, but at least I will feel better about turning over the reins if needed!

Thanks again to all who responded. It's good to have this support outlet!

[ssh]

Originally Posted by momma-z

So, at what age do folks think it's okay for LO to cry if a parent is right there comforting them? I ask because DH often tries to comfort DS at night by walking around carrying him and gently patting/shushing him, but there is always some crying involved. Sometimes I wonder if it's any different than DH trying to comfort DS in the crib, with patting and shushing and holding an arm around him. At least he'd be in the crib and hopefully would *eventually* be able to put himself back to sleep.

When a baby is being held their immature systems (heart-rate, respiration, temperature, nervous system) regulate themselves by using cues from the mature systems of the adult holding them. So trying to comfort without holding wouldn't work as well especially with a young baby. That's why skin to skin contact is so important. Babies are not biologically or neurologically designed to "put themselves back to sleep" they need physical contact to feel safe. The normal place for babies most of our human history has been carried on a parent or in a parents arms. By the time a child is mature enough not to need night time parenting he or she is too big for a crib.

[Smithie]

Well geez, I hope nobody tells my eleven-month-old that she's neurologically unequipped for the 12 hour stint of unbroken sleep that she typically does in her crib each night.

The reality is, every baby is different. My sound sleeper spent the first six months of her life shrieking in horror if anybody but me tried to touch her (let alone soothe her to sleep). If you are lucky enough to have a DH who will take on even a small part of the nighttime parenting burden, OP, then kiss him for me and say thank you.

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by momma-z

Marsupialmom - maybe I didn't type what I meant - I agree with you completely about dad vs. mom comforting baby. What I meant was, does it make a difference whether dad (or mom) is comforting the baby while holding him and walking or while baby is in the crib with the parent's arm around him.

Lets say a parent has no legs or other ailments does it matter that they cannot walk around with the baby? How about the blind mom that is afraid of stumbling while walking so she chooses to sit at the crib and sooth with her hands, voice, and presence?

My son use to sing to his sister when she would cry. He would sit and sing sweetly. Not touch because that would disturb her even more. Did his efforts not matter? It did make a difference and help sooth her while I finished what I was doing (think bathroom functions).

During medical procedures, I could only do the simple touch like your dh is doing. Are you saying that my basic limited touch does not matter or somehow less? Some kids also prefer and do much better with less stimulation.

My mil talks about how my fil use to rub my bil's back to sleep. She hate the fact that she couldn't do it right. He would cry for hours until fil would come home on the rare nights that roles were reversed. My sil says to this day if bil is stress the hand on the back is the most calming thing to him.

There is so many types of touch and interaction. It sounds like dad is positively interacting in his own way. You would be wrong to dictate it. In addition, your way for him might not work. My middle child had reflux. My dh would lay on his back put her in the crook of his arm and rock back and forth to settle her to sleep, worked great for him! If I tried this position she would scream in pain. I just didn't/couldnt touch her the same way as her dad and she didn't like it one bit.

[momma-z]

marsupial mom - Your examples of parents who do not (or perhaps cannot) hold their child while comforting them make me feel much better. By the 10th waking in a night, our arms and backs are in pain from carrying our DS around the house to soothe him, and we've talked about trying to comfort him in his crib (or our bed, depending on the hour of the night) but we know he'll cry more (at least until he gets used to it) so we've been hesitant to do it. I think I fear that it's too much like CIO and not enough cuddling and therefore DS will feel abandoned. Your post makes me realize that doesn't make any sense.

To annemoonstar, I'm so sorry I hijacked your thread! You posed a very interesting question I've been pondering.