adopted child article - Page 2

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by queencarr

But I think the difference is that even though I didn't like the way things were, and we had personality clashes, and I was not the person he wanted, I still loved him.

In some cases, I think more than just disliking the baggage, love *is* slow to develop. There are definitely parents and kids who don't love each other at first. In fact, love sometimes has to be coaxed into development. It is like the slow-to-develop love that happens when a parent bonds more slowly to a child they give birth to, but in cases of adoption, it can come with additional *baggage* on the part of both parent and child. In those cases, the baggage interplays with the lack of love, creating really difficult circumstances.

That said, a parent who doesn't love the child, but who does care for the child (which seems like it ought to be the minimal *behavioral* standard set for parents when the bonding process is going slowly...fake-it-till-you-make-it in some cases) in any reasonable scenario I can imagine, (1) seeks help, and (2) takes responsibility.

The parent is the responsible party. The parent is the adult. Even if the parent eventually has to admit their limited capacity to safely care for the child in-home, the parent doesn't get to give up with a snap of the fingers (that's the traumatized child's job). I know that can be very scary and can feel impossibly difficult for a parent who is really struggling through this. But it is the commitment we make to our children when we become parents.

I haven't been following the story closely, and haven't read, seen, or heard the reports, but I am just not hearing anything about seeking help or taking responsibility here around the mother's actions. If my assessment is accurate, I actually think this story is not about adoption. This is not a "normal" story of adoption disruption, if there ever was one. This is a story like other cases of child abandonment, that demonstrates inhibited parental reasoning capacity, diminished forethought, a lack of empathetic abilities, and so forth. Something has to be "off" in the parental mind if these factors are present. Something was really, really wrong, and I am not even thinking of the child here.

In these conversations, I personally walk a fine line...which is why I tend to stay quiet these days on this topic. In a FB conversation, one person writes sincerely about how every adopted parent she has ever known (and it sounds like quite a few) would have ripped out their own hearts and given them to their children. Another chirps that if mom couldn't have handled it, she would have been glad for the opportunity to give it a shot. And on and on.

While I don't think this case is actually about adoption, the conversation seems to be, and I think the conversation has the potential of making it even harder for adoptive parents to seek help and take responsibility.

In my opinion, a more nuanced understanding of parenthood and the parent-child relationship, and in particular as it relates to adoption, would be more helpful in processing our collective horror over what happened.

Pre-adoptive training for parents, for example, varies a great deal by program and region. While some of us read a number of books from varying perspectives about varying adoption topics, in addition to taking hours and hours of training, I have seen some parents walking into adoption rather "blind." In a shocking way. Often these are people who are not very far along in a grief process about previous losses or infertility. Not all programs and all regions require pre-adoptive counseling or grief counseling for infertile couples seeking to adopt. And of course, it is very hard to call out misconceptions and false expectations when the grief process has created a veil of heavy denial. Too many adoptive parents, in my experience, go in thinking, "of course my children could have special needs," while secretly also expecting that their OWN adopted children will be the exception.

Then there are issues such as "post-adoption" depression. Unfortunately, the stigma these conversations seem to create, along with fear of the system removing other children from the home, nullifying the adoption, preventing the parent from ever adopting again, etc. prevents many from getting help. It IS hard, as an adoptive parent, to seek help when things at home are rough. Parents who have moved heaven and earth to bring their children into their lives seem to feel, from what I have observed, such great shame when they fail to fall in love or bond with the children, or otherwise experience a more nuanced parent-child relationship. And if the child truly does have an attachment disorder, she or he is likely to be an especially charming child to everyone but the parent...leading many parents to question their experiences and fear that they are going insane. It also leads to a lack of support from social workers, many of whom take a blaming stance when issues arise, which is reinforced by the child's positive behaviors with others (a characteristic of the "disorder").

The pragmatist in me worries that the tone of conversations like these contribute to the stigma in addressing feelings that are less than "fiercly devoted" on the part of adoptive parents, and that is problematic to actually preventing disruptions.

[queencarr]

Originally Posted by Sierra

In some cases, I think more than just disliking the baggage, love *is* slow to develop. There are definitely parents and kids who don't love each other at first. In fact, love sometimes has to be coaxed into development. It is like the slow-to-develop love that happens when a parent bonds more slowly to a child they give birth to, but in cases of adoption, it can come with additional *baggage* on the part of both parent and child. In those cases, the baggage interplays with the lack of love, creating really difficult circumstances.

Agreed. And the love I felt then is not the same as a more developed love now that there is a relationship. Maybe more a responsibility-based love at first? I am good friends with a family who comes from a culture whose traditions includes arranged marriages, often to people they have met minimally prior to the wedding. I have been previleged to participate, at least in the periphery, of this process the past couple of years, and have learned so much. In our many conversations (How could you marry someone you are not in love with and don't really know?`~~But how could one who has never been married, as my parents have been for 40 years, know what qualities to choose in a mate?!?) it struck me that the love process is similar to that in an adoption. We have hopes and dreams for who this child is/might be, we know somethings on paper and a picture, but we don't really know them. And yet, we are supposed to become insta-family. My friend explained to me that in their marriages, they start from a place of caution with each other and grow to love each other simply by being around and choosing to love each other. I'm not explaining it very well, but when he spoke, I had a lightbulb moment. Only in adoption, we the parents are directing this action while the child is along for the ride, which places the burden of the relationship building on us. Fake it until you make it, but the responsibility is on us.

[RedOakMomma]

great post, Sierra.

[Tigerchild]

I agree that the grotesque aspects of this story, as reported, are not really at all about adoption. Most parents, even faced with the same circumstances, would not have gone about this in that way. The ultimate outcome (disruption) might have been the same, but it's the process that's the real shocker here.

I think that PPs are very correct in that another aspect of this story that frightening to people is the crumbling of "Love Conquers All/I Love All My Kids the Same" mythology that people really seem to like about "normal" adoption stories. I don't think it's possible to emphasize enough the shame and anger that is directed at you if you challenge other people's mythology about what "adoption is like", especially if it's an idealized version. Adoptees groups are often treated horrifically because of that, and tend to respond in kind, which sets up a vicious cycle. I would imagine the same thing happens with adoptive parents who actually dare to have something less of an orgasmic experience in the early days of adoption! How dare you say anything, it must be you, you just suck, if you were a good parent you would instantaneously love the child no matter what; to me that is the same "you're just an angry adoptee, your experience isn't real/valuable, your parents just didn't do it right or you were defective" crap that is spewed at adoptees. I would imagine there's a similar component with birthparents, but to be honest I have not really worked with that community enough to hear it.

I do agree that education is important. I wonder if, though, that education should have a post-placement required component as well. Because let's be real--just like Sierra said, lots of people listen to it pre-placement, smile and nod and are absolutely sure it won't be them.

And I really think it would have been good for some media outlet somewhere to inform the public that adoption disruption is not a super rarity, that there are steps to be taken. OTOH, that's a fine line to walk, especially with the xenophobia that Americans (in particular, dunno if that is as prevalent elsewhere) can exhibit over "foreigners" costing them tax dollars (for services). Some people won't even recognize American born American citizens if they're of hispanic descent and were born to immigrants. And many news outlets are still calling this child a Russian first and formost, instead of the American citizen that he is. So I could see reluctance to bring up the disruption rate of int'l adoptions, because I do think in the current climate there is a risk of some ugliness there that doesn't have much to do with adoption either. Hope I'm wrong about that though. I do think that is part of my own personal anger over this story though. She had no right to send him back overseas. He is OURS. He's an American, and I don't want one of ours in a Russian orphanage with no services! Irrational, I know, but I do think that is part of the kick in my gut at least.

[kcstar]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

What Hansen did would not be permissable by NE standards either, if I'm reading that law correctly. You still can't have someone OTHER than the parent get rid of the kid(s).

I agree. I think where I was going with this is something Sierra brought up here:

Originally Posted by Sierra

While I don't think this case is actually about adoption, the conversation seems to be, and I think the conversation has the potential of making it even harder for adoptive parents to seek help and take responsibility.

I come at this from several angles right now.

One is the attachment aspects. As a WOHM, I've had times where I've felt like I struggle to bond with my (birth) son. It's something I make a point to work on. For one thing, I set a "date" to be with him once per week, without my SAHD husband around.

Another is, at least for the Nebraska story, I have seen children who can be a real handful, who need help. I've heard stories from members of my church about how broken the mental health care system within the United States can be. Struggles with insurance companies, struggles to get the right diagnosis & treatment. Catch-22 situations where the necessary treatment is not allowed to prevent problems... and then when the problems happen they are often treated criminally rather than medically.

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

I do agree that education is important. I wonder if, though, that education should have a post-placement required component as well. Because let's be real--just like Sierra said, lots of people listen to it pre-placement, smile and nod and are absolutely sure it won't be them.

The third angle, infertility and the quote above. Guilty as charged After my ectopic pregnancy, I got as far as attending an information session on adopting through the local county. It hadn't been a year yet, so they wouldn't let me even begin the preliminary training... which is probably a good thing. Certainly my grieving wasn't done, and I hadn't exhausted the biological options yet.

I know that my life has been too unsettled to begin the adoption process since then. Too many major life changes.
I have to wonder what other issues Hansen might have had going on. (I hope it's okay to state the question. I know any answers would be pure speculation, and therefore beyond the TOS.)

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

And I really think it would have been good for some media outlet somewhere to inform the public that adoption disruption is not a super rarity, that there are steps to be taken. OTOH, that's a fine line to walk, especially with the xenophobia that Americans (in particular, dunno if that is as prevalent elsewhere) can exhibit over "foreigners" costing them tax dollars (for services). Some people won't even recognize American born American citizens if they're of hispanic descent and were born to immigrants. And many news outlets are still calling this child a Russian first and formost, instead of the American citizen that he is. So I could see reluctance to bring up the disruption rate of int'l adoptions, because I do think in the current climate there is a risk of some ugliness there that doesn't have much to do with adoption either. Hope I'm wrong about that though.

This, too. I studied Russian, I've visited Moscow, I've worked with my Russian counterparts in my old job. I don't know if I want to go for an international adoption, but if I do, then Russia is high on my list of countries.

Russian culture is VERY different from the U.S. culture. The xenophobic / super-patriotic U.S. culture is IME prevalent in the rural areas, such as Tennessee. (Cities are not necessarily better, just better at hiding it.)

I know the case of the 8-year-old Korean girl two years ago caused a lot of anger in the Korean community.

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

I do think that is part of my own personal anger over this story though. She had no right to send him back overseas. He is OURS. He's an American, and I don't want one of ours in a Russian orphanage with no services! Irrational, I know, but I do think that is part of the kick in my gut at least.

With no address, which makes him a "nobody" in the Russian social system. Not good.

[RedOakMomma]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

\I think that PPs are very correct in that another aspect of this story that frightening to people is the crumbling of "Love Conquers All/I Love All My Kids the Same" mythology that people really seem to like about "normal" adoption stories. I don't think it's possible to emphasize enough the shame and anger that is directed at you if you challenge other people's mythology about what "adoption is like", especially if it's an idealized version. Adoptees groups are often treated horrifically because of that, and tend to respond in kind, which sets up a vicious cycle. I would imagine the same thing happens with adoptive parents who actually dare to have something less of an orgasmic experience in the early days of adoption! How dare you say anything, it must be you, you just suck, if you were a good parent you would instantaneously love the child no matter what; to me that is the same "you're just an angry adoptee, your experience isn't real/valuable, your parents just didn't do it right or you were defective" crap that is spewed at adoptees. I would imagine there's a similar component with birthparents, but to be honest I have not really worked with that community enough to hear it.

TC (okay, had to type it at least once...totally got my Magnum PI going on when I see that)~

I'd never made that comparison. That's interesting. I've certainly felt (not here, but in family/community) some harsh judgement...or even silent judgement...when I try to talk about how we didn't experience that Insta-Love that's supposed to happen when you adopt a child. Sorry, everyone, we don't live up to Brad and Angelina! It wasn't instant, it WASN'T "just like with our bio kids," and it was really, really hard at first. It totally sucked.

I think most people just get quiet when I've brought it up, or even brought up the outside edges of the topic. To be honest, most people don't know how to relate, or think that I'm saying something really ugly about our daughter. That's not it at all. The only people who really seem to get it are here, or a few close adoptive parents I know in real life. And even THEY were hard to approach with the subject....'cause man, I didn't want to be the only parent who had a hard time.

Thanks for making the comparison. I think it's probably harder to deal with when thrown at adoptees...there seems to be a lot of leeway given to adoptive parents that isn't given to adoptees or birthparents...in this and all kinds of situations...but it's nice to think I might have some clue how adoptees are shamed, quieted, or rejected because what's being said is uncomfortable. I hope that doesn't sound weird...I'm just glad to know that this experience might be educational in ways that could help adoptive parents ('cause I know I'm not the only one who's been through this!) partially understand the experiences of adoptees and birthparents.

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma

Thanks for making the comparison. I think it's probably harder to deal with when thrown at adoptees...there seems to be a lot of leeway given to adoptive parents that isn't given to adoptees or birthparents...in this and all kinds of situations...but it's nice to think I might have some clue how adoptees are shamed, quieted, or rejected because what's being said is uncomfortable.

You know, I actually think that adoptive parents probably have it harder in that regard. If adoptees are processing negative feelings, chances are they have been processing it for longer. They might have always "felt" different. And in some ways, people almost expect you to be ungrateful/challenging in some stereotypes.

I think adoptive parents not only have to deal with People Being Asshats about the parents not fitting the Shiny Happy Family model; but I do think that with most folks they are also fighting against their own feelings of guilt/sadness that it's not Shiny Happy that they may have intellectually known might happen but it's still a shock. And it's also going to come at a time that many people view as "the end" of the journey, during a time of tremendous adjustment--it's a lot of loss to process. The grief and loss of the adoptee, that you have to endure/work through with the child. Potentially the infertility grief and loss retriggered, if that was part of the reason for adopting. Let down, kind of like day after wedding day/back to the grind after the honeymoon let down. You've planned and waited and paperworked, to get to this point, bam they're home, it's real--OMG. In the case of international travel, your body readjusting + the kid readjusting + new sleep dep with a baby/young toddler. Family getting in your face because they're excited and want to "help".

I think the depth of the pain can be the same or very similar, but I think for the adoptive parent it seems like it's more compressed and more intense. You don't have a lifetime to settle into it, with spikes. And adoptees these days DO have support groups where it is safe to process your negative experience. I have yet to really hear someone mention something like that for parents, perhaps because of grief/shame/guilt internally but also fear. (what if someone takes my kids, what if I have to have even more social workers in my life, I just got done with that sort of thing)

I think that adoptees being able to voice negative experiences and demanding compassion from the system has lead to some improvement in the system. I hope that the same thing can happen for post-placement parents too--where people are more real about the spectrum of adoptive parenting adjustment experiences and that it is recognized and normalized and that there is help available--at least amongst adoption specialists. The spectrum of adoptee experiences is not quite there in public acceptance, but within the triad community and amongst adoptees (no matter where their experience was) I do think that it's starting to get there at least with that community.

I don't know how to help or how that could change for the aparent side though. In many ways, you're not going to "Get It" until you're there, right? Well, adoptees are there from placement onward--for most of us almost all of our lives. For a lot of aparents they prep and prep, but it's not until you get the call and the final paperwork that bam you are there and it's off and running. You don't grow into it like a lot of adoptees get to.

So I don't know. I don't think that you can quantify better or worse, but--I do think that for international adoption in particular that is a huge burst of intensity, bam and run with it, that you don't really have a chance to grow into. Does that make sense at all? I am just talking out my butt for experience on the aparent side of things.

[RedOakMomma]

No, it totally makes sense. I guess what would make it seem possibly harder (to me) for adoptees are the ages at which adoptees start processing these emotions AND the pressure they might face from parents and others (at those sensitive ages) to be quiet/be happy/be grateful/etc. It seems like a lot of people start processing their loss and anger as children or teens, and with everything else going on that can't be easy.

It's might be true that adoptive parents have a rougher go of it just because of the suddenness (and everything else you described...I think you were right on). But we're adults (or we are once the sleep deprivation passes, at least ) Adults have more resources open to them, and are usually more in control of their own lives than teens or young people are...so it's probably more likely we can find at least one sympathetic ear (if only our partner's). A young adoptee might not have that.

Is it true that you can feel like the world's biggest fake as an adoptive parent. As if the "fake it 'til you make it mantra" (though helpful) isn't enough, with the wider world you mostly go out smiling, pretending the adoption was/is great, and putting on faces that hide the fact of dreaming about that "undo" button several nights a week. I don't think that's the typical adoptive parent experience, I don't want to make it sound harsher than it really is, but I know at least a couple of my close adoptive friends have experienced it...and I know I have. And I definitely felt some of the pressure to be grateful, rather than honest (not sure if it's the same as what adoptees feel)...with people or support communitites who helped out financially, with family members who were so excited that we were done with the process, with grandparents... There can be a real dual-life in the beginning, or even in the year+ or months+ as you begin to adjust and bond with your child. It's not a great feeling.

[just_lily]

As someone quite early in the adoptive journey I don't have a lot to add here, but I just want to say that I have been following this thread and feel that the discussion has been very valuable. Thanks to everyone participating.