need help with sleep plan for frequently waking 10 mo old

[LuluMama8]

I have a 10 month DD who, for the last 5 months, wakes up every 1 1/2 to 2 hrs every night and who won't go back to sleep without nursing. I am absolutely exhausted and this is no longer sustainable for me. I know some of you happily (or at least without losing your sanity) oblige a frequently waking baby well beyond 10 months of age, but I just can't do it anymore (I'm not a great sleeper so I don't sleep through the nursing and take a while to fall back asleep after she goes back to sleep despite my fatigue). So I am looking for some ideas and feedback on what I'm thinking.

Our situation: I have had a great bedtime routine for quite a while which ends with nursing in a chair until DD is calm but not sleeping, and then transfer to our bed where I lay with her until she falls asleep with me on one side and her lovey on the other. She sometimes fights sleep, but only for a few minutes, and usually falls asleep within 15 minutes between 7:15 and 7:30. Then I sneak out of the room.

35-45 minutes later she wakes and either my DH or I, usually my DH, go lay with her again until she's asleep which often takes quite awhile as she is strangely restless and tosses and turns (10-30 minutes). She may wake up again 15 minutes or 2 hrs later, that's pretty variable. Then around 9:30 or 10 my DH and I go to bed, him with DD and me on a bed next to them.

She then often wakes up at 10:30 and very predictably at 12:30, 2:30, 4:30, and 6. Each time she cries my DH hands her to me, I nurse her sitting up in bed, unlatch her before she's asleep, then hand her back to my husband to snuggle and settle. At 6 I get in bed with her, let her nurse laying down until asleep and then we're asleep until 7 or so.

We have room darkening shades, white noise, and she still starts the night swaddled. I read NCSS and have been instituting ideas from Pantley for 3 weeks including the lovey, not nursing all the way to sleep, not sleeping right next to DD, and trying to comfort DD with other measures than nursing which only ever results in screaming.

I am now thinking that there are two things I need to do: help DD learn to fall asleep on her own (put her down drowsy and awake... and then have her fall asleep without me) and eliminate one nighttime nurse to start. I have no idea how to institute "drowsy but awake" as every time I've tried backing off a little before she's all the way asleep she just rouses and takes forever to get back down again. But I am hoping that might help her fall back to sleep without nursing in the night (I don't believe she actually needs to breastfeed 5 times a night for calories- from 6wks to 5 months she slept 8-10 hrs straight at night). And then I'm thinking of having DD and DH sleep in a separate room and he can call me in to nurse for all wakings except the 2:30 feed when he just has to hold her,comfort her, etc through her expected cries. I am not excited to do this but I don't see any other options and I really need at least one 4 hr stretch of sleep at night.

What do people think? Any ideas? What do you think of my plan? Any ideas on how to achieve "drowsy but awake"? Any options besides denying the 2:30 breastfeed? I would really appreciate any feedback. I am so grateful to have this forum of like-minded parents to go to with this, it is amazing how ubiquitous CIO is- it's the only option friends, pediatrician, family have to offer.

[Louisep]

It's so hard, I know. I was in an identical situation and nothing helped DH sleep longer but time. We turned the corner (mostly, kind of, sort of) at 12 months.

In the end, I simply had to manage MY sleep - nap with baby and my DH even altered his schedule to give me daily lie ins (he slept in another room) and long lie ins at the weekend. Are any of these things possible for you? It's hard if you WOH....

I would say, tentatively, that at ten months you could try dropping a feed. I did nightwean at 12 months and we also dropped to one nap and maybe these things coincided to give longer stretches. That said, two months is not long if you can hang on and think about partial nightweaning then if you're really desperate.

The drowsy but awake thing. I struggled with this. My DS, like your LO, learned to fall asleep lying next to me without nursing - this is what I think falling asleep drowsy but awake means. However, it took DS a long time to do this at wake ups - maybe 2 months? Now he sometimes settles himself back and sometimes doesn't. There's really no rhyme or reason to it.

I think you should try your plan, I just caution that it might not work. I hope it does but if it doesn't, hang in there and try and manage your own sleep deprivation as best you can. It'll get better very soon.

One last thing - after trying everything, i got the most rest by laying down and nursing. Is there a reason you sit up in bed and transfer your LO back to your DH?

Good luck.

[LindsC]

We were having this same problem with DD a couple of months ago. She is just about 10 months old now. I got to the point where I wasn't getting a restful nights sleep and she was nursing almost the entire night and I work outside the home 4 days a week so I need some sleep. We decided to set up a full size mattress in her room and start the night in there. It took a couple of weeks of going back and forth a lot during the night, but she slowly dropped how many times she was waking during the night from 8-10 to 1-3. Sometimes she still takes awhile to fall asleep, but I am able to get some uninterrupted sleep at night and feel more rested during the day. The other thing we have been doing is that I nurse her to sleep between 7-8pm. Any wake ups before midnight, Dh will go in and cuddle with her to get her back to sleep. Any wake ups after midnight, I will go in and nurse her.

[blessedwithboys]

at that age i wouldnt recommend eliminating night feedings at all. a baby that age needs night milk. the only thing that worked for me was to sleep topless and let ds just latch on as needed. i hardly ever woke fully up. we did this for 24 mos til STTN happened in its own. in between ds1 and ds2 (7.5 yr gap) i developed a sleep disorder, but this was still the best way to handle ds2 til he STTn on his own at 24 mos.

[momma-z]

Lulumama8 - I sympathize. I have a 5 month old son who wakes every 45 min - 1.5 hours all night long. He goes to bed in a crib beside our bed and I bring him into our bed during one of the wakings after I go to bed (because I'm too tired/lazy to sit up and nurse). We're trying NCSS, too, not with much raging success yet (it's only been 1.5 weeks), but will keep doing it for a while (consistency, consistency, etc.) I'd be happy if we could reduce the number of actual night feedings by half, hoping that will reduce the number of wakings eventually (or at least give me a longer stretch of sleep), so DH gets DS every other waking and walks him around a bit until he's asleep or nearly asleep (also working on the putting down drowsy thing!) I think because DS isn't used to DH comforting him, he gets a bit upset when DH picks him up, but he usually calms down quickly and is asleep within 5-10 minutes. If it takes longer, DH walks around longer, but if DS gets more upset, DH brings him to me. I'm also trying to nurse him more during the day - he usually eats only every three hours during the day, so I figure it should be possible to slowly shift some of those night feedings to day feedings. I'll keep my eye on this thread, and hope you have some success. If I figure anything out, I'll post it.

[LuluMama8]

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

Momma-z, I like your idea of DH comforting your son back to sleep every other waking, it seems like a great way to decrease wakings over time. We certainly try to have my DH do a similar thing with DD but she just screams and screams if I don't breastfeed her so this technique doesn't seem to work for us. I am also trying to nurse DD more often in the day, but it is hard to get her to take a break from all of the exploring/climbing/crawling to do out there even if I take her into a quiet, calm room.

Lindsc- I don't really understand your method with the mattress in DD's room. Did you previously cosleep and then were transitioning her to her own room and she stopped waking up so much because she wasn't cosleeping? Or has she always slept in a crib and you setting up a mattress in there helped comfort her by your presence so she was able to stay asleep/fall back asleep on her own? Can you explain the technique a bit more? We also have DH comfort her for wakings before our bedtime which usually works, but lately has begun not to.

Louisep- you give me hope that eventually this will improve, and I appreciate the cautionary note that my interventions may be for naught. I do try my best to go to bed early, have DH take her for an hr or two in the am so I can sleep in, and try to nap (I really can't nap, though, no matter how tired I am). And sometimes I feel like I can get by with those measures, but other times I am just too tired to function and feel awful. I sit up in bed so that I stay awake and make sure I unlatch DD before she's asleep to try to change the nurse-to-sleep association, but you're right, it's not as restful as laying down.

I have been having second thoughts about dropping a night feed, not because I think she's too young to go without those calories, but because I'm worried that it will confuse her that sometimes she gets to nurse at night, and other times, as hard as she cries (tries to tell us she wants to nurse), she can't. I am thinking of waiting until 12 months and then, if things are just as bad, trying the Dr Gordon technique which seems to be a bit more logical- ie DD can't nurse at night , but it's okay during the day. I just have to figure out if I can make it until then.

Any more thoughts?

[zamia7]

I just wanted to let you know I am in the same boat with my 7 month old. I put a full size matress on the floor next to our bed, and just giving him his own space seems to help (he is a very very very very active little boy, even while sleeping) He has room to flail about and not hit anything or anyone to wake him. So he is waking about half the time he used to, so now only 2-5 times instead of 10 times. I also stopped looking at the clock, and the past two nights (teething) I tried not to count the number of wakings.

We are also referencing NCSS, and I try to make sure the boob is not in his mouth as he drifts off. I find this helps a lot and I can usually "shhh" him back to sleep or hold his hand for every other waking and he goes rightback down. Our biggest issue now is the middle of the night diaper change. I cloth diaper by day, pampers 12 hour by night, because as long as he is nursing all night, he pees all night and wakes up if hs is the slightest bit wet. When I change him often times he stays awaks and wants to play, then cries when I dont engage with him.

Anyway, good luck, I hope you figure it out.

[ihugtrees]

I am in the same boat with my 10.5 month old. My husband is gone (military) and I feel at the end of my rope. I literally have no friends and family here (we just moved from Florida to Washington recently), very little support from my family and so-called friends long distance even, and I never get a break. That, combined with 8-10 wakings from the time I go to sleep at 11 and the time we wake up at 8, is making me feel crazy.

A friend told me today about Hand in Hand Parenting, and Patty Wipfler's theories on sleep. She talks about how we try to stifle children's crying by nursing or giving them a pacifier or whatever, and how when adults keep themselves from expressing emotions, we tell them not to push it away, but instead to express themselves...how we don't need to be afraid of having our children cry, and that we can comfort them while they do it. I guess her point is that emotions aren't something to be afraid of or pushed away...I am not so fond of her idea of backing out of the room as they cry, but think my poor sweet girl is going to have to do some in-arms crying with mama at some point soon, because I just don't know what else to do.

I don't want to nightwean, but I do need to drop feedings. My daughter doesn't nurse when she wakes up--she sucks for 30 seconds tops and falls back asleep. But she has a lazy latch at night, so I have to unsnap my top, get her positioned, wait for her to finish (I can't sleep through nursing) then I have to fasten it back after she is done--I can't bare my breasts in bed, as that is physically uncomfortable to me--and sometimes it takes me a bit to fall back asleep. I think I'm lying awake in a daze half the night, just waiting for her to wake or to finish nursing or whatever. Even if it's 2 minutes in all, waking up every 30-90 minutes is just exhausting, and it's starting to effect my daytime parenting. I am a MUCH better mother when I SLEEP!

Sorry to go on and on. I need to vent, I guess, as I have NO ONE to talk to about this.

[momma-z]

ihugtrees - I so wish I could help you! Your situation sounds really tough. But speaking from my experience with my DD, now 2 years 8 months old, it will improve. She had such a rough time sleeping as a baby (at its worst, she was hardly napping, waking every 10 minutes, nursing all night long, crying endlessly until only the vacuum calmed her down) and we tried so many things - talking to the doctor, tylenol, mylicon and gripe water, NCSS, a sort of CIO that seemed less harsh until we did it (we stopped the first evening - it was AWFUL and she wouldn't look at me the next day), and all of it was useless. She just eventually worked it out on her own and now sleeps through the night most nights.

Of course, knowing this isn't improving sleep with my 5 month old son, whose sleep is currently better than hers (but still wakes every 45-90 minutes), and I'm still trying to help his sleep now rather than wait until it gets as rough as DD's was. It may be fruitless, but I'm too stubborn to just accept it yet.

[mamacolleen]

I'm right there with you mamas. My 9.5 month old wakes anywhere from 3 (very rare) to 7 times a night. We co-sleep but it still makes for very interrupted sleep and a very tired mama in the AM. I totally go back and forth on a fairly regular basis as to whether I feel I need to do something about it and talking myself into dealing with it for "just a little bit longer".

I kind of gave up on eliminating the nurse to sleep association in the middle of the night cause it makes my sleep deprivation much worse. Right now I focus on eliminating the nurse to sleep association at naptimes, bedtimes, and when she wakes before I come to bed. So I either rock her to sleep for those or put her down drowsy but awake. I figure if she can get those down regularly then we can work on the nurse to sleep association in the middle of the night later. Right now I need to side-lie nurse or I'd go insane. I pick my battles.

I'm also mostly just praying it doesn't get worse because I don't think we can really do much about it now anyway. I'm going back to work next week and I work long long hours. I want her to wake up and nurse at night so that I can keep up my supply... I just hope it doesn't kill me in the process. My plan was to wait until 12 months, like the OP, and then do the Dr. Gordon method then if it was still intolerable to me. However, we're moving houses 2 weeks before her first birthday!! So it looks like we'll probably not be able to think about night weaning until at least 13-14 months, depending on how long the adjustment to her new environment and to me being back at work goes.

We can do this right?

[LindsC]

Lulumama - to answer your question we were cosleeping and she was basically nursing all night long and I think part of it was because the food was always right there. We tried using the sidecarred crib and she refused to sleep there so we decided to try a full size mattress on the floor in her room so that it was a similiar setup to our bed. I nurse her to sleep in her room and then slip away once she is asleep. The first month or so, I would go in there everytime she woke up and nurse her back to sleep. During that month, she slowly started waking less during the night. Now that she is comfortable in there, she typically does not wake up until after midnight for the first/only time. At that point, I go in and nurse her and if I am still awake when she is done, I slip back to my bed. However, if I fall asleep while nursing her back down, I just stay there until one of us wakes up again. If she does happen to wake up before midnight, Dh will go in and cuddle with her and she often falls right back to sleep since she know that daddy doesn't have any food and that is how he gets her down for naps on Fridays when he is home with her, so that is her normal daddy comfort.
I hope I was able to clear things up for you.

[buttercups.nest]

I haven't read all the other feedback, but your situation is exactly like mine, except my little guy is a few montsh younger.

I had a few frustrating nights last week and so out of frustration I put him in his crib and left the room to cool off. I wasn't angry with him, just said I love you, kissed his head, and then left. He had his soother etc.....and then he went to sleep. It's not always this easy....some nights he'll fuss, and other nights we end up nursing to sleep. But for the most part I can put him in his crib and then leave the room. If he fusses I keep going back in, calming him down without picking him up (unless he gets really agitated, he's usually just mad he lost his soother), he likes having his head rubbed and being shushed. Eventually he conks out.

I don't let him cry...I do not see anything good in doing CIO. I have the No Cry Sleep Solution but what I've read doesn't work for us/already tried. I have found that the best thing for us was to get him to fall asleep in his own crib on his own. Now he sleeps at least 3hrs during the day (closer to 4-5hrs) and then in bed at 6:30-7pm.

Good luck!

[essnce629]

I have no suggestions for you, but just wanted to say that your DD sounds EXACTLY like my DS, who is turning 11 months this week. He used to sleep 6-7 hour stretches from about 5 weeks to 4 months old, but then the stretches just got shorter and shorter and now he wakes up every 1-3 hours. Unlike your DD though I can put him back to sleep without nursing when he wakes up after just 1-2 hours after eating. I bounce him on the birth ball till he falls back to sleep. I think I need to get out my NCSS book and re-read it (I used it with DS1). I'll also be reading everyone else's suggestions. (((HUGS)))

[penstamon]

Wow, I could echo what most of you have said- it seems like we all have the same kid! Just when I think we are starting to make progress, it gets bad again. DH is soooo ready to CIO and I have to say I was ready to give in last night when we were up from 2:30-4a. But I didn't and I am not a happy mom right now and not really enjoying my overtired whinny baby.

I wish I have advice for you, but I think I have the same plan of night weaning in a few months and also trying to get DS to sleep more in his side-carred crib instead of in bed with us. I may try moving him to a different room again too because maybe we are waking him (DH snores)?

I hope we all sleep soon!

[LuluMama8]

Although I'm sad there are so many sleep-deprived families, it is really good to know there are others out there (lots, it seems) in the same situation. That does somehow make me feel better and hopefully we can all support each other/give each other ideas and make it through this.

So as I mentioned in my past post, I was hesitant about my original plan to cut out a nurse for fear it would confuse DD and decided to wait and maybe nightwean at 12 months. So I thought I would try me sleeping with DD again on a double futon on the floor in her room hoping that she would get more comfortable with her room and eventually be able to sleep there without waking up and without me for maybe the first part of the night (totally in line with your suggestion, Lindsc). The first night she only woke up twice after I went to bed, and three times the past 2 nights. So way better than the 5 times or so a week ago. She still wakes up 1-3 times before we go to bed and is able to go back to sleep with prolonged snuggling, but I don't mind that as much as the middle-of-the-night wakings. So maybe she just needed me to be near here and the smell of milk so close isn't really a reason for her waking. Who knows. It could also be that her 7th tooth just popped through finally. I also wonder if it is the novelty of the situation and she'll go back to her old schedule in a couple days (I sure hope not).

Like mamacolleen I have decided for the time being to not even try to eliminate night nursing until I feel more caught up on rest and able to tackle it. My DH will be done with the school term in a few weeks so maybe he can help me try to deal with it again then. I agree that that it is crazy how quickly things change so maybe in a few weeks DD will accept comforting from DH and eliminating night feeds wouldn't necessarily mean DD screaming in his arms (which it would most definitely mean now).

I have had zero success with drowsy but awake for putting her to bed, she is going through a phase of having a REALLY hard time falling asleep as all she wants to do is crawl all over the bed and I've had to resort back to nursing to sleep, a step in the totally wrong direction but I don't know what else to do.