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The downside of paying off debt.

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
So I'm doing the Dave Ramsey pay off your debt plan at the moment, and it's really making me wonder about values, choices etc. This is kind of a vent/brainstorm, I'd be interested in other's insights.

Good points:
-We are on top of our budget & really, truly understand it.
-We are paying down debt quickly, which is a very good place to be.
-We are finally learning how to responsibly manage our money

Hard points:
-In order to get enough $$ to make a serious attempt at paying down debt, we have made some major changes:

-I have gone back to work full time, 5 days a week, after 15 months of working 4 days per week & having 1 day a week to spend with my girls. I am really, really miserable about this. I hate it. But it is bringing in an extra $500 per month or more (because of holiday pay etc.) which is pretty hard to argue with right now.
-My dp is taking care of two extra kids 2 days per week. Again this is bringing in close to $500 per month in extra money, which is hard to argue with. Also it's helping out a friend big time, who was in a real childcare bind. But this is very stressful for dp and especially for our oldest dd, an anxious, high needs 5 yo who does not adapt well to change. Our younger dd, age 2, is a happy go lucky, social little thing who generally enjoys having other kids around.

Both of these things are hard on dd1 who really notices my increased hours & really struggles with the 4 yo girl who comes 2 days per week (she's a lovely kid, but for many reasons they are not very compatible). And I feel like kind of a crappy parent right now, making my kids pay for dp & my previous financial irresponsibility--they don't really care about any of the stuff we have or don't have, obviously.

We've always prioritized our kids & our family time, even when that has meant less money. But it's now clear that this was unsustainable, that even cutting way back on extra spending (we never eat out, never take big vacations etc.) was not enough to make ends meet, especially with dd2 having major food sensitivities which has pushed our grocery budget way up. The answer is clear, but I'm really struggling with the reality of it right now....
post #2 of 19
With your current rate of earning how long will it take before you've met your goal for paying off debt? Sometimes if there is a "light at the end of the tunnel," an estimated date when things can go back to normal it can make it a little it easier.
post #3 of 19
post #4 of 19
We've never piled up big debt, so I'm not experienced in having a financial turnaround.

But living within our means and saving has always been important to me. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices and do the responsible, adult thing.

I am lucky in that I have a job I love. But when the kids were little, I was exhausted a great deal of the time. And as it is, I go non-stop from 5am to 10pm, with no time at all for myself. Sometimes I think it would be nice to work part-time but there are no good paying professional positions with benefits that are part-time in my field.

Oh well, that's life. For me, being in signficant debt would be far, far worse stress-wise than working full time. I also feel a personal responsibility to provide my kids with a college education. If I weren't working full time, that wouldn't happen, and we wouldn't be funding retirement accounts. Delayed gratification, I guess.
post #5 of 19
debt, what an awful 4 letter word.

Unfortunately your family is paying the price as well as yourself for you living beyond your means in the past. You've robbed yourself of your own freedom and It totally bites; I can relate.

As for your plan, can you take a month or two off from the "plan" to allow a bit of fun? I never was as intense as I could have been in paying off my $30K of debt I had a few years ago. I could have gone much more hard core and really slashed the budget as well as brought in extra money, but I choose to allow a bit more fun as it was a mental health aspect.
Not certain that this is really fesible thou for you since it sounds like you all have picked up new sources of income, and it is not easy to let that go for a few months and know you'll be able to replace it again in the near future.

However, perhaps you could hire out some things that would make your family time, more family time for the summer. Perhaps birng a in a cleaning service once every 2 weeks to really spruce the place up, thus freeing some of your time to spend it with the family?

And if nothign else, just remember that it's not forever, eventually you will have paid back your obligations and you won't be in this spot of making such tough choices.

best of luck
post #6 of 19
How long do you have before you can pay off the debt? How much is it? And how old are you?

If you are older and will be able to pay the debt off this year, then yes, it seems like it sucks but you can get through it. However, if you are younger (under 30 or so) and it's a LOT of debt and paying it back will take years, then I think it's worth considering bankruptcy to clear your slate and to use your new skills to begin rebuilding your credit and savings. I know that's not likely a popular view here but it sounds like you're really struggling. That's fine if it's for a set time-period and there's a reward at the end. But if you're going to spend the next 5 years or so like this then I think it's fair to cut your losses and move on. All that of course presumes you could live within your means going forward if you did not have the debt.
post #7 of 19
To be accurate, this is the downside of HAVING debt, not the downside of paying it off, really.

But all the same, you make the choices you are comfortable with. We're on the DR plan but we have not made every single sacrifice a family in our situation could make. And we know it, accept it, and choose it. There are downsides to our decision - we'll be in debt a lot longer, financial security will be further in the future, and we'll also be worse off in terms of retirement (as we are delaying the point when we can fully fund it). Another family in our situation would say that was not acceptable, and do things that we haven't done (, and that's great. We are willing to sacrifice what we spend money on (and have been doing that for years), but we are also willing to delay financial security so that our daughter can stay home with us. It's not the sole right choice, it's just our choice.

On the other hand, we would be willing to reconsider our choices if, for example, we could go crazy and get rid of our student loan debt in 6 months or less. But every time I figure it out, no matter how much money I hypothetically apply to it every month, it's at least 3 years. The time frame does matter when picking your choices. What's your time frame?
post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 
We are not really in scary amounts of debt. We were debt free as recently as 3.5 years ago, but have not been managing our credit cards very well & put some fertility treatment expenses on them that really ran them up. But I'm not trying to justify our bad decisions. I consider myself to be a very responsible person, having worked at either 80% or full time in a job I dislike for 8.5 years in order to provide income & benefits, including generous maternity leave, for my family. Unfortunately, neither dp or I have ever been very good at managing money & have gotten in & out of debt a number of times over the years. What I am happy about is turning things around. But I don't like the sacrifices it demands of my kids, esp. dd1.

bronxmom, I'm 35 and I really don't think our debt justifies bankruptcy at this point--it is definitely not my preferred option.

Here's what we have: $8,000 on two credit cards, $8,500 on a line of credit tied to our mortgage $2,000 on some windows we purchased for our house and approximately $12,000 left to pay on our car purchased last year. Grand total: $30,500. Which is a lot, but the part that really bugs me, obviously is the credit cards.

We have already sold our 2nd car among other things, and are working on getting rid of & selling a whole bunch of items. Still, I think it will take us at minimum 2.5 years to pay it all off, barring any unexpected windfalls.... so not forever, but still, pretty long!

Denvergirlie, I like your way of thinking about making it manageable, but our budget is pretty tight as it is.

EFmom-for the record, our girls' college fund is being 100% covered by grandparents, and I am very grateful for that.

Laohaire & tinuviel--that's a good question in terms of time frame. I think a big part of my problem is that I haven't really figured it out yet. And yes of course you are right, it is the downside of paying it off . The other issue is that we moved two years ago to a cheaper house, a lower col area, with the idea that I would be able to work part-time (4 days per week) while dp stayed home. We crunched the numbers and it seemed to work. But what is now clear to both of us is that we are terrible budgeters and had failed to take into account a number of once a year expenses like property tax, Christmas etc.

Unfortunately we weren't following the DR plan at the time, or we would have used the extra $ from our house sale to pay everything off & wouldn't be in this mess! sigh.

Overall, I do feel good about being financially responsible. It's just that the day to day of it kind of sucks. Sorry if that comes across as whiney. I know I should be grateful for having a good job & having so many options! I am grateful but I don't like seeing my 5 yo unhappy.
post #9 of 19
The reality of being financially responsible can be tough if it means sacrifices. I think it's admirable to have something positive and responsible to aim for. I'll be a lone voice however and say that it's important to remember that people come first. Don't sacrifice everything. Our children are small once. It most ways I think moderation is important.
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by karne View Post
I'll be a lone voice however and say that it's important to remember that people come first.
Not lone We made the same choice. No, we don't put a desire to have lots of clothes or DVDs or consumer electronics or nice cars first - paying down our debt is prioritized over those. But keeping DD home and not sending her to daycare? Arranging our lives so we are together and see each other more than a few hours a week? Yes, we put that first. But even then, we CAN make that choice, unfortunately not everyone can.
post #11 of 19
Hmmmm, maybe cutting back just a little at work could make this compromise work better? I dont' know if that's feasible for you. And I am all for financial security and being debt-free and living within your means. BUT you should also consider the people living this life for the next few years until things are paid off. Maybe even just cutting back on hours for one day a week would help make everyone happier even though it won't significantly lengthen the time you stay in debt. It's all about compromise. But that lifestyle does sound like it sucks and sucks HARD!
post #12 of 19
I know the popular saying is, "You can't sacrifice tomorrow for today".


But sometimes you can't sacrifice every today for tomorrow either. You are being responsible to your debt which is awesome, but you still have to be resposible to your kids. And if you know this is not the way, then you need to reorganize and do it a different way.

Good luck! s
post #13 of 19
All great advices so far.

I'm not trying to add to your burden, but I am a big proponent of emergency savings, and feel that it maybe a good idea to start a small amount per month. This is what would have prevented you from using your card for unexpected situations. I'd start a small emergency fund right now and add as much as I can every payday.

You said about your daughter having multiple food sensitivities and that really pushed your budget way higher than it was. I have multiple food sensitivities and read quite a number of blogs on that. If you are looking for more make at home options for her, do let me know. I can send you a bunch of links.
post #14 of 19
She's on the Dave Ramsey plan, so if she's in babystep 2, she already has a $1k starter emergency fund.

After babystep 2 is babystep 3, which is a fully funded emergency fund (3-6 months expenses).
post #15 of 19
Have you looked into selling the other car that has payments and getting a cheaper car ( even if you have to buy say a $4000 car ( a good used honda maybe?) and roll $2-3k into the loan it would cut the debt down some?

How soon till you have the windows paid off? Or the lowest CC? maybe make that the goal and then after those are paid off ( esp if you sell the car also) cut back on the work a bit. Or your DP can stop child care if its upsetting the kids. after you have reached that goal.

Remember this isnt forever this is just to get into a better spot so you CAN do family stuff or vacations and enjoy them because you paid cash for them!
post #16 of 19
i think you are just in sort of a transition period where you have taken control of your financial life, stepped out of your comfort zone, and your brain is screaming 'no no go back!!' because it was easier to live in 'darkness' without taking responsibility of your finances. i think it will get easier.
maybe you could try to explain to your son what's going on and why you are doing it in terms that he'd understand. he's probably just confused as to what's going on ...
i know how hard it is to work more than you'd like when you have little ones, you just have to keep telling yourself that its not forever. 'just 12 more months to go' might be an easier idea to digest than just frustration over having to extend your hours...
you are doing the best for your family and your children. they may not understand it at this time, but you should be very proud of yourself for stepping up and taking control of your lfie
post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thanks AnnaNova--that is a helpful perspective & you're likely right...I am finding the transition to 5 days really hard psychologically (I've been low level depressed for 1.5 years now and this is ramping things up). But I think it may be because of the way I'm framing it too...I think I'm being a bit too all or nothing, or assuming that it's going to be terrible because I'm working 5 days. I should try to focus on the positive side of that more.
I would like to explain to dd, but I also really don't want to transmit anxiety around money to her, as she is very sensitive & anxious & apt to pick up on this kind of thing. She does understand that I work so we can have money though

We are also working with her on counting down the days the daycare kids are going to be there & finding strategies to make it easier for her which is helping.

piggie--it's a good idea re: the car..........I don't know, we really really love our car, which is a big upgrade from the tercel with no air conditioning we were driving before. Maybe we could find something that would work....it's a thought--I do find our payment to be big.
post #18 of 19
I just wanted to comment on:

Quote:
I would like to explain to dd, but I also really don't want to transmit anxiety around money to her, as she is very sensitive & anxious & apt to pick up on this kind of thing.
She is likely to have *already* picked up on this anxiety and may very well be what is creating her behavior now. My DD is "very sensitive & anxious & apt to pick up...", also. She is 9 now and I have learned that she worries without knowing details more than she worries with the details. Age-appropriate details help her release her worries and concerns and alter her behavior dramatically for the better. Something to consider...
post #19 of 19
I am all for silver linings.

Firstly, what a blessing it is for you and your partner to be able to bring in extra income to meet your family's needs. A lot of people can't find a way to get that extra income, so already that is fantastic.

I feel for your partner and taking in extra kids. That is a big adjustment. HUGE. It is like growing your family backwards. But at the same time having the others there only two days a week is almost harder than having them every day... they aren't there enough to really establish a decent routine. I run a home daycare so I really, really get this. Childcare is TOUGH.

But I think you need to focus on the positives here as well. Taking in the extra kids is allowing your partner to be a full-time SAHP. That is fantastic! Is my daughter getting the same amount of attention with five other kids around that she would have gotten if I didn't have to do childcare? Of course not. But she at least gets to be around her mom, rather that in another daycare with someone else. Because that is the alternative - I need to bring in income or we don't eat.

I think you might see some improvement with your DD if you focus on the positives with her as well. Instead of counting down the days until the daycare kids leave, could you instead focus on how great it is to have other kids to play with? Or how fun it is to go to the park together, or whatever else you can think of. I see this with my daycare kids all the time... most of the parents drop their kids off with a 'have fun, see you later" and the kids are great.... but one mom builds it up like it is terrible. "Don't worry, I'll be back later... we'll do X when we get home... etc." And that kid is usually miserable because her mom is treating coming to my house like a really awful thing. So a lot of the time we need to really focus on the positives in order to pass that same feelings on to our kids. We don't want our misery making them miserable.

So I agree with you... making sacrifices in order to pay off debt is tough. We have to make a lot of sacrifices just to keep our payments current, let alone accelarating repayment. But doing it all with a happy attitude is tougher.
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