need other ideas besides "1,2,3" & time out

[taramoon13]

ds is 2.5, and oh boy has he figured out how not to listen and be cooperative recently. overall he is a very nice, sweet boy. he can be very frustrating at times when i ask him NOT to do something and he turns right around and does it or ask to pick up toys or get his teeth brushed and things that should take 5 minutes end up taking 20. i don't even know what else to do to get him to be more cooperative. he is very bright and picks up on things very quickly, so i know it's also a vital stage for getting him to know that there will be discipline for not cooperating,: i'm just not sure what discipline yet know it's just a tough phase in general, but any ideas or books on the subject are welcome.

[Xerxella]

I love the book, "The Secret of Parenting"

It's so simple and straightforward. Essentially, it's like this:

"Junior, we need to pick up our toys now." He ignores you. "We need to pick up our toys honey. I'll help you, but you have to start." He does not help with the toys.

Then you just sit there by the toys staring at him. He'll do something else, but sooner or later, he'll want to engage you. And you again respond that we can't do anything until we pick up the toys, please help.

This takes alot of patience. Make sure you have a lot of time the first time you try this because it may take awhile. Of course, big congrats when it's successful. Lots of smiles, lots of fun, etc.

But, overall, children seek your approval and the force of your presence will make things happen.

It's essentially what I called as a kid, "the look." You know things were serious when you got "the look."

The book does a better job explaining it than I.

[swd12422]

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by Xerxella

I love the book, "The Secret of Parenting"

It's so simple and straightforward. Essentially, it's like this:

"Junior, we need to pick up our toys now." He ignores you. "We need to pick up our toys honey. I'll help you, but you have to start." He does not help with the toys.

Then you just sit there by the toys staring at him. He'll do something else, but sooner or later, he'll want to engage you. And you again respond that we can't do anything until we pick up the toys, please help.

This takes alot of patience. Make sure you have a lot of time the first time you try this because it may take awhile. Of course, big congrats when it's successful. Lots of smiles, lots of fun, etc.

But, overall, children seek your approval and the force of your presence will make things happen.

It's essentially what I called as a kid, "the look." You know things were serious when you got "the look."

The book does a better job explaining it than I.

My sister, who is trained very well to work with difficult children (autism) and is in a Ph.D. program, did exactly this with my son (2.5) this past weekend. And it worked very well. She just states what needs to be done, waits, and eventually, DS comes to her or brings her his shoes to put on or starts to pick up toys...

DH and I are similar in our approach. When DS doesn't want to put on his clothes/change diaper (demonstrated by kicking or twisting or even tellling us "no")...I tell him that I'll come back when he is ready. I then turn to folding clothes or packing his lunch or whatever. When he seems calmer, I go back. I try very hard not to engage in a battle of wills.

Yesterday, however, I did have to pick him up and bring him inside from the neighborhood pond so we could have dinner. (I had left something simmering on the stove.) Typically, I'd just wait him out, but we needed to get back in the house. First time the neighborhood has been able to witness him throwing something close to a tantrum. Funny thing was that he calmed down immediately upon entry into the house, as if to say, "Oh, I see you're in charge here and my crying is getting me nowhere. Now, what's for dinner?"

[nd_deadhead]

I like the approach the others suggested!

I just want to encourage you to use "do" statements instead of "don't statements. While toddlers might have a good grasp of what "don't" means, they probably don't have the ability to think of an alternative. So if you say "Don't eat the worm", all they hear is "... eat the worm... Grandpa said eat the worm..." (ask me how I know this).

So if you tell a kid not to jump on the couch, even if they know they aren't supposed to be jumping on the couch, they keep doing it - not because they are being uncooperative, or willfully disobedient, but because they can't think about anything just then except jumping on the couch. Instead, say "Feet on the floor", or "jump on the floor", or "Please sit on the couch".

Once he's sitting, you can explain that jumping on the couch is dangerous, and you want to keep him safe. You also get to reinforce appropriate behavior as soon as he does it - "Couches are for sitting!"

It takes some getting used to, but consider that if YOU can't think of a positive alternative behavior right away, how do you expect a 2-yr-old to do so?

[ssh]

2.5 year olds do not have impulse control so not listening and not co-operating are just normal behavior. Keep asking, keep redirecting and modeling correct social behavior for him. You've noticed your DS is bright and he is learning your expectations and once his impulse control is more in place you'll see the requested and modeled behavior. Also getting up and gently helping him comply works well at this age. Redirecting, the requests you've been making, modeling correct behavior and physically removing your DS from dangerous things are discipline. The idea that you have to do something to your child when they annoy you or don't comply with your requests is the only way to discipline is not true. Anything that instructs is discipline even gentle non punitive methods. You don't have to worry about normal 2 year old behavior becoming 'bad habits' they do develop impulse control and grow out of the annoying behavior. Also people are right about using the word "Don't". Little kids focus on the last part of what you say so if you're saying "don't jump" they jump. Saying sit on the chair please or that's dangerous jump on this instead works much better.

I really liked Parents, Kids and Power Struggles and Raising Your Spirited Child both by Mary Kurcinka. It also helps to realize that most annoying toddler and preschool behavior is just a phase and will go away with time.

[~cassie~]

I do what the PP does and state what needs to be done and then wait him out. With regards to toys, I will usually sit down on the floor with the toys and start picking up and he usually rushes over to help me or do it himself. We also tend to make picking up fun and play "basketball" as we have a huge toy bucket and "shoot" the toys in. We all have fun with it My oldest tends to get very overwhelmed when he sees toys scattered everywhere so we sweep them to a big pile and then shoot them in the bucket.

[Katie T]

I also think it is normal for toddlers to take a long time to do things. Like getting dressed and brushing teeth. Mine don't try to be slow most of the time, but I don't think they feel the rush of life. (which I like most of the time unless we are late lol)

I like the sound of the above mentioned approach, but what do you do if you have more than one child to care for? I was trying to have a cool down time for my son today and DD2 was ready for a nap (which I nurse her to sleep) and I couldn't walk away or I wouldn't be able to make it effective, but I couldn't ignore DD2's needs either.

I'm not being snarky, I really would like tips on making this work, we are definately getting to the stage with ds where he doesn't want to follow directions.

[kcparker]

I resort to tactics like:
- "Can you do this by yourself, or do you need help?" If I get no response, I move on to, "It looks like you need help with this."
- "I want to do X." This always brings a response of, "No! I want to do X!"
- "Want to conga/hold hands/get carried/go for a horsie ride?" is a good one if I want him to come with me and don't have time to dicker around with waiting for him to be ready to move.
- Tell him, "This is too heavy/hard/many for me to handle. Can you help me out?"
- Thanks/praise when he does cooperate or do something of his own accord. I always tell my son how much I appreciate it if he cleans up without being asked, for example.
And just remember, time management and cooperation are not part of a 2 1/2 year old's mental constructs - that's your deal. They are just boppin' along, doing their 2 1/2 year old thing.

Try reading Harvey Karp's Happiest Toddler on the Block.

[lindsayjean]

I always try to remind myself that you can't be in a hurry when you have a toddler. I find myself saying "hurry up!" way too often. But really, life goes much smoother and I am much less stressed out if I just let things happen at the pace they are going to happen. My daughter is happier, and I am happier. And if I plan ahead we still get to things when we need to.

Playful Parenting is a good book. It is always so much more fun to cooperate when it's a game instead of a chore! We do this for teeth brushing a lot (recently her 9 month old brother started 'helping' me brush her teeth, which she thinks is hilarious)

At the end of the day, a 2.5 yr old has like 25% impulse control (someone told me 10% per year old), so it puts it into perspective that even if he KNOWS what he is supposed to be doing, developmentally he just truly is NOT able to do it right the majority of the time. I remind myself of this stat a LOT because it helps me to be more patient and understanding and know that I can gently and lovingly help my daughter learn how to cooperate, share, listen, etc without resorting to punishment.

Our major issue at 2.5 was aggression (which we still are working on at 3, but it's getting better) and MAJOR tantrums. Oh man. It's a hard age!

[taramoon13]

thanks for some great ideas. i really like the one about saying "feet on the floor" instead of "don't jump on the couch" for example, we've tried this already and seen positive results! i know a lot of it IS me and just learning to be more patient and not in a hurry.

[Pumpkin_Pie]

What do you do when it is something that absolutely MUST be done immediately? For example, my friend who has a 2.5 year old was out in public with her son and he was running around with my DS. There is a pedestrian mall that we like to run around on, and it is great for the boys. They can run for a block at a time down the middle of the street (where no cars are allowed) and they then hold hands with us as we cross an intersecting street and then they can run again. On this day, the boys got a little too far ahead of us, and we both yelled out "Ok, stop and turn around!" which about 99% of the time gets both of them to stop and run back. Her son did not stop, and she started yelling, "Xxx, you need to stop right now!" He kept running, and she started running toward him as he got closer and closer to the intersecting street. She then yelled "XXX STOP NOW!!!" and bolted as quickly as she could toward him. HE just started giggling and running further away. She started yelling "ONE! TWO! THREE!! FOUR!!!!" and he eventually stopped once she got close to five.

What would have been a better tactic there? I can see how the wait for them to come to you tactic would work, and am definitely going to try it with my son, but what about when they absolutely MUST stop the behavior immediately? Or what about when you are late for work and they MUST leave now?

How to deal?