My pup has hip dysplasia

[TulsiLeaf]

So we took Stingy in to the vet today and it was confirmed that our 14 month old boxer/pit mix has this. I am pretty crushed. I know it's not a death sentence, but it's just very overwhelming to think about right now. Also, while she was doing the exam, it was discovered that one of her knees is "loose".

Normally I love this vet office, but we got another vet this time and I didn't care for her. She seemed a bit dismissive, so next time we are making sure we get the other vet. But she said that we need to get her on some supplements (msn, glucosamine, chondrotin, fish oils) make sure we exercise her, but not to much. She gave us some rimadyl (and seemed to get rather belligerent when I was like she isn't in pain right now can I get some later? We have a very limited budget) and told us about cold laser therapy and acupuncture. She didn't suggest when to do an xray, but said we could do one if we want. Umm, okay.

I really wish I would have gotten our other vet, he doesn't make me feel weird asking questions

But essentially I have no clue how to exercise her (she just told us to stop before she starts to hurt. Ummm, hello! I don't know how to stop just before because she doesn't give warning, she just stops). We are thinking swimming, walking. I asked her about taking her to the dog park and about how long she we let her play and she is llike "well don't let her get in pain." UGH! It's hard to know because she is jumping around like a crazy puppy playing and then when we get home she gets stiff. I don't know what to look for!

And she didn't answer my question about what will this do to my dog later on. She is like ohh it's not a death sentence. I know that, but will it make her arthritic earlier? Will it cripple her legs?

Any of you deal with this? Thanks

[prone_to_wander]

Our pup had suspected hip dysplacia and we found that we couldn't let him off the lead. He would just start running around and then he'd start limping. I think finding out how much exercise is needed or how much he can handle is a trial and error kind of thing. Start out easy and see how he does.

We found our pup loved having his butt massaged. If he is stiff, then maybe give him a bit of massage. Make sure his bed is comfy and soft.

I'm not much help, because our dog actually died rather young (he got hit by a car in a crazy accident) but he did fine for as long as we had him.

Good luck.

[lonegirl]

She didn't do an xray?? To confirm hip displasia an xray, often with sedation for good positioning, is done. Otherwise it is just an assumption. I can't even fathom the number of hip rads I have taken over the years but they help assess the severity. Plus at 14 months there us still a chance things tighten up. This is why fir hip certification the dogs must be at least 18 m and sometimes not until 24 months.
We generally don't automatically start with rimadyl or metacam unless pain is shown. Glucosamine chondroitin and efa's are often suggested.

[TulsiLeaf]

Originally Posted by lonegirl

She didn't do an xray?? To confirm hip displasia an xray, often with sedation for good positioning, is done. Otherwise it is just an assumption. I can't even fathom the number of hip rads I have taken over the years but they help assess the severity. Plus at 14 months there us still a chance things tighten up. This is why fir hip certification the dogs must be at least 18 m and sometimes not until 24 months.
We generally don't automatically start with rimadyl or metacam unless pain is shown. Glucosamine chondroitin and efa's are often suggested.

Yeah, I just left feeling very left out of the loop. She is more med friendly than our other one is. I am just confused. You know?

She said that the hip rad is the one true way to confirm it, but that she has seen it enough times to know that Stingy does have it. I was trying to ask her questions about the xray and when we should do it, but I felt very dismissed. She interrupted me while I was talking and seemed annoyed that we were even there. I think I am going to call them up and speak to someone else about how we were made to feel and ask for the other vet to speak with us.

She was good with my dog. But there was no discussion about it. To me, hip dysplasia is a big thing! Isn't it? Taking proper care of her and making sure we take this head on from the start would at least make her better off in the long run? She's our family pet and we are very worried about her. We left feeling no better than when we went in.

Thanks for your thoughts on it.

p.s. about the pain. I told her that she doesn't look in pain, more like stiff. She doesn't whimper, but she will limp a bit. When I told her that I would rather hold off on the pain med because I know that prolonged use can lead to liver problems she actually got curt with me. She was like if she is in pain, you need to give her this. Well, if my dog was in PAIN of course I would give her a pain med, but she isn't exhibiting any signs of pain at all. I wanted suggestions on how to not get her in pain, not just a script for drugs. UGH

[greenmagick]

I have heard of pretty many cases of vets saying it is dysplasia and then when xrays are sent to OFA, it is not. So, it may not be...however supplements will only help. MSM is really good for this. Also, a lady I know who runs a refuge has had really good results with a combo of MSM and an herbal pain reliever called DGP (Dog Gone Pain). She has been able to fix severe cases of HD with this, good diet, etc.

(hint, on the dgp, shop around as price really varies...usually amazon has good deals on it)

[Alyantavid]

Definitely use the supplements she suggested. Our 9 1/2 year old Chessie broke both of his hips as a pup and does wonderfully on glucosamine and condroitin. He does get stiff in the mornings (especially in the winter) and if he gets too much time running, he'll start to limp. Swimming is a great exercise for him because he loves it and it doesn't seem to cause the pain that running does.

Our vet suggested rimadyl as well, but so far he's doing really well with just supplements so we haven't started that yet.

[Ola_]

I think the supplements are a very good idea so I'd start those right away. We just get ours at a regular pharmacy. For fish oil the regular dosage pills have 300 mg EPA/DHA combined (usually each pill is 1000 mg so you need to check the EPA/DHA amounts that are inside). I'd start with one 1000 mg pill per day and slowly increase to 1000 mg per 10 lbs of body weight. Because it's an oil it loosens stools, which is why you start gradually. If you see runny stools then just back off the dosage a bit and go more slowly.

I hear you on the hesitation with medicating. On the one hand, I don't want my dogs to be uncomfortable (and usually they hide it well so by the time they limp it hurts pretty bad). On the other hand, I know everything has side effects and I don't want it to have a negative effect on their organs, etc. I would get her going on the supplements and then decide on the pain medication once you've seen how she does. I'd also definitely keep her lean, very lean as any extra weight will stress her joints (for a short-haired dog I'd want to see a hint of ribs personally).

As far as exercise it probably will be trial-and-error. I think swimming is good, but for walking you need to be aware of the surface you're on - soft is much better than walking on concrete! I wouldn't do anything that's hard on the joints, no running, no biking with her, no agility, no frisbee or playing fetch (unless you keep it very, very low key). Normally you wouldn't want to do those activities at her age anyway because they can stress her developing joints, but certainly after this diagnosis you want to avoid them for sure.

[TulsiLeaf]

Originally Posted by Ola_

I think the supplements are a very good idea so I'd start those right away. We just get ours at a regular pharmacy. For fish oil the regular dosage pills have 300 mg EPA/DHA combined (usually each pill is 1000 mg so you need to check the EPA/DHA amounts that are inside). I'd start with one 1000 mg pill per day and slowly increase to 1000 mg per 10 lbs of body weight. Because it's an oil it loosens stools, which is why you start gradually. If you see runny stools then just back off the dosage a bit and go more slowly.

I hear you on the hesitation with medicating. On the one hand, I don't want my dogs to be uncomfortable (and usually they hide it well so by the time they limp it hurts pretty bad). On the other hand, I know everything has side effects and I don't want it to have a negative effect on their organs, etc. I would get her going on the supplements and then decide on the pain medication once you've seen how she does. I'd also definitely keep her lean, very lean as any extra weight will stress her joints (for a short-haired dog I'd want to see a hint of ribs personally).

As far as exercise it probably will be trial-and-error. I think swimming is good, but for walking you need to be aware of the surface you're on - soft is much better than walking on concrete! I wouldn't do anything that's hard on the joints, no running, no biking with her, no agility, no frisbee or playing fetch (unless you keep it very, very low key). Normally you wouldn't want to do those activities at her age anyway because they can stress her developing joints, but certainly after this diagnosis you want to avoid them for sure.

About the pain meds...
My whole thing about it was I wanted to ask her questions to see how we can exercise her and keep her active without further stressing her joints. I wanted to find a way to stave off the pain. Her thing was "oh here is some pain meds, if she is in pain give them to her". Nothing about how to avoid the pain. I most defiantly want to keep her out of pain and have no problem giving her pain meds. I just don't want to use them as a crutch, if you know what I mean.

thanks for the suggestions. I am going to the store later on tonight to get the supplements.

[greenmagick]

realized I forgot to mention...while DGP is a pain reliever, it actually supports and helps fix the problem...so its not like giving just pain relief, if that makes sense.

[mom0810]

There is NO WAY to know if she's dysplastic without an x ray. That's crazy. This vet seems like she was trying to sell you a bunch of meds and take advantage of your concern for your dog.

At this age she could be stiff for a number of reasons, Pano comes to mind, but she is a bit old for that... still it could be one reason.

I would exercise her and let HER tell you when she is done. Keep her lean, and get an X ray done when she is 2. Assuming that a 1 year old puppy is dysplastic without x rays or anything to confirm is not malpractice, but it's close.

Sorry you had such a bad day at the vet. I would not worry about it so much, things can tighten up a LOT from now to 2 years old.

The other thing I wonder about which you COULD be seeing at this age is luxating patellas. It's not unheard of in dogs this size and it's not unheard of at this age.

Hope things get better. Just go with her comfort level at this point but no skydiving (jumping off the couch or in to cars/out of cars), running on hard surfaces, and just common sense. Could be growing pains.

[TulsiLeaf]

Originally Posted by mom0810

There is NO WAY to know if she's dysplastic without an x ray. That's crazy. This vet seems like she was trying to sell you a bunch of meds and take advantage of your concern for your dog.

At this age she could be stiff for a number of reasons, Pano comes to mind, but she is a bit old for that... still it could be one reason.

I would exercise her and let HER tell you when she is done. Keep her lean, and get an X ray done when she is 2. Assuming that a 1 year old puppy is dysplastic without x rays or anything to confirm is not malpractice, but it's close.

Sorry you had such a bad day at the vet. I would not worry about it so much, things can tighten up a LOT from now to 2 years old.

The other thing I wonder about which you COULD be seeing at this age is luxating patellas. It's not unheard of in dogs this size and it's not unheard of at this age.

Hope things get better. Just go with her comfort level at this point but no skydiving (jumping off the couch or in to cars/out of cars), running on hard surfaces, and just common sense. Could be growing pains.

thanks so much.

The good thing is the amount we paid for the visit was what we needed to get done anyways (she was due for her heartworm test anyways). so the pain meds only ran me 8 dollars. but i hated how she was basically calling me a bad dog owner because i didn't take the meds.

[mom0810]

No, not a bad dog owner at all. In fact, you are a very GOOD dog owner for listening to your gut.

Pain meds have a place, certainly. But I would never give such a YOUNG dog pain meds unless I was SURE there was an issue. There is just no way to know without diagnostics, and this vet really just wanted to sell you stuff, I think. (they do get commissions on what they sell in most cases).

If your dog was 15 years old and in pain then risking the liver damage for a few more months of pain free living would not bother me. You know? You have to weigh the good and the bad.

For now I would research pano and luxating patellas and just be really gentle with her and make sure she is never overweight. On the thin side is even totally fine.

Best wishes,

[TulsiLeaf]

Originally Posted by mom0810

No, not a bad dog owner at all. In fact, you are a very GOOD dog owner for listening to your gut.

Pain meds have a place, certainly. But I would never give such a YOUNG dog pain meds unless I was SURE there was an issue. There is just no way to know without diagnostics, and this vet really just wanted to sell you stuff, I think. (they do get commissions on what they sell in most cases).

If your dog was 15 years old and in pain then risking the liver damage for a few more months of pain free living would not bother me. You know? You have to weigh the good and the bad.

For now I would research pano and luxating patellas and just be really gentle with her and make sure she is never overweight. On the thin side is even totally fine.

Best wishes,

When I asked her her idea weight (she was topping the scales at 63 pounds and thank goodness we got her back down to 57) and she looked at me like I was crazy. Then she had to think about it. She said there shouldn't be much squishing room on her ribs.

I was just talking to my husband and I asked him if I was over reacting and he said no. So tomorrow I am going to call the office and tell them how I feel and ask for the other doctor to give me a call back. Quite frankly I think they owe me another office visit so we can discuss what is going on.

[mom0810]

Yes, I would call and see your normal vet. It's amazing how the different vets in a practice can range from great to terrible. I have a fantastic vet that I see if I possibly can, and when she is on vacation there is only ONE other vet I will see. But that's it. There are two other vets in the practice and they are awful. One is very "retail-ish" and tries to sell me something every time I am there... and one is very against breeding of any kind, the animal-rights type of vet... so she doesn't like me very much. LOL

I think for that mix, 57 lbs still sounds like a lot. You should be able to see a definite waist, and you should be able to feel ribs very easily. Without trying to. But without seeing her, I couldn't say for sure that she's overweight still.

Good luck today with your regular vet. I hope you get some answers. Ask about her knees and see if they could be an issue rather than the hips. And ask about pano. I know it's usually seen in GSD's and other larger breeds, but it's entirely possible to see it in smaller/medium sized dogs. I had a Beardie that had it once.

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by TulsiLeaf

When I asked her her idea weight (she was topping the scales at 63 pounds and thank goodness we got her back down to 57) and she looked at me like I was crazy. Then she had to think about it. She said there shouldn't be much squishing room on her ribs.

Unfortunately, many vets see so many overweight dogs that they aren't good sources of info. Sad really since they are the people we expect to be "experts".

For my double-coated dog, I aim to be able to run my fingers along her sides when she's standing straight, and only need a tiny bit of pressure to feel her ribs. For my greyhound (totally different body type and short hair) I aim to see 2-3 of his last ribs. For the breed mix you're describing I'd want to be somewhere in between. I can't really say based on the weight if she needs to lose any - how tall is she at the shoulders? Also, you can try posting a side-facing photo of her standing straight.

[greenmagick]

Just thought of something else.....was reading another forum and was reminded of the importance of exercise for an HD dog. Not that you want them in pain or anything, but exercise helps strengthen and actually helps

[SophieAnn]

Here's a good article explaining and illustrating how to tell if your dog is overweight (or underweight). It's hard even for a vet to tell you an exact number of pounds your dog should be, especially since she's a mix.

http://www.k9station.com/articles/fat.htm

(Don't scroll all the way to the bottom... the photos of emaciated dogs are awful).

I think I've seen a larger version of the first set of illustrations (top view and side view of a yellow lab) - they're really good.

Also keep in mind that at 14 months she's probably not done growing, so some weight gain may still be a good thing. Just keep an eye on ribs, waist, taper, hips, etc. and go by look/feel, not by the number on the scale.

[desertgirl01]

My pup (hound mix) was diagnosed with hip dyplasia when she was just year old (xray diagnoses). We've kept it under control wonderfully by managing her weight (even a 2lb weight gain between vet visits was lectured on), daily exercise, lots of glucasomine/chondroitin, and fish oil everyday. The fish oil made a huge difference! Every so often she'd need some Rimadyl (sp?) for pain relief, but that's been, maybe 4 times--usually after a long camping trip where she'd really outrun herself. She's 10 years old now, a lean 65lbs. Until this last year, she'd kept an amazing amount of muscle tone back there (a sign the hip is still functioning and being used). We've noticed a big decrease in tone and alot of pain this year. She's old, but not that old. Due for a vet visit, going to have to discuss her hips for sure.

[TulsiLeaf]

Okay, I called the vet today and spoke with the receptionist. I explained to her what I felt and she suggested that my normal vet take a look at her chart and give me a call tomorrow. If he feels the need to re-examine her, they will do it free of charge. I am very happy about that.

I am going to write all this stuff down you guys suggested and talk to him about it(thanks so much for hte suggestions)

i would have to measure her to see how tall she stands (at the shoulder) but she is quite thick in build. She has a very big chest. Honestly I could see her down another two pounds though. I can feel her ribs and she does have a waist, but I would imagine two more pounds down would be better for her. We have been being generous with her dinner lately. Opps.

[TulsiLeaf]

Update!

So, our normal vet called us back, and this is why I like him!

He spent nearly a half an hour on the phone with me going over what the other vet had said. He didn't bad mouth the other vet, but you could see he was a bit annoyed with how she handled us. He offered to see her free of charge to examine her himself if we wished, which I thought was very nice. But this is what he said

We are to keep her exercising to a bare mininmum right now. Until we get her fully assesed, he doesn't want us pushing her and it's better to be safe than sorry. The bike rides are totally out, to long of walks are out to. Especially where we live in such a hot enviorment (Florida) he warned me of overheating her easily. He also said that swimming would be great for her and shorter walks. Limited time at the dog park, instead of an hour we normally go, just do a half an hour. He also said that although he is pretty confident in the assesment that his co worker made, that an xray will provide a better look into her condition. He didn't think that we would need to sedate her because she is rather agreeable and he hasn't had to sedate to many dogs for the xray ( I asked him how he does the hip rad's to make sure the positioning is right and it is. lifting the back legs up and pulling out). Unless something is rather painful, you can tell her to stay and she will through some discomfort. But he said if need be, he will sedate her. So what we are going to do is get her xrays, and then have the exam afterwards.

I feel SO much better about this now. He said that it could be since she knew we were pretty tight on money that she didn't want to throw to many tests at us, but I told him that his prices were good, and she's our family member, we would find the money. I can do without some yarn, without some extra treats from the grocery store. It can be found. 85 for the xray can be done, and it will be. I asked when would be the latest we can schedule this xray. He said that she can wait a few weeks, but please do it as soon as possible.

Just wanted to update. Thanks everyone.