Pedi fighting me over iron supplementation - Page 2

[echoecho1528]

Originally Posted by sbgrace

I don't think there is a way to do it all perfectly. That's the (frustrating) conclusion I've come to with my kid. But the effort you make is better than none at all. I prioritize the areas of concern (in his case iron since he often runs low has to be my top and I prioritize zinc as well). I think your plan looks solid (though...how much does she sleep...that's a large spread to get into the day...you could dose something in the night w/a syringe/I did that when my son was younger).

My only question is why you are attached to that multi enough to want to do it twice a day? I say that because it's got all minerals all mixed up and that makes them pretty much useless and I'd be concerned they are affecting your cell salt absorption too which is important to you (right?). What are you trying to get out of the multi and can you give whatever that is on it's own? If you're doing it for b vitamins or iodine or the like why not give them on their own since vitamins don't (usually/generally) have nearly the issues w/inhibition interactions that minerals have. If it's trace/other minerals I'd do them on their own (that's what I do actually at our mid-morning snack time not on that list I gave).

Thank you for helping me to figure out this maze of supplements! I am very new to supplementation, as I naively believed that breastfeeding my toddler would fill in any nutritional gaps her less than ideal diet would leave.

So here I am with a little girl who isn't gaining weight, looks sickly - brittle/thin hair that doesn't grow, dark circles under her eyes, deteriorating teeth, etc. I need to do something about it and her pedi isn't helpful at all. The only deficiency they found in her blood work was iron. I have had a hair test done and she tested severely low in both zinc and mag, and moderately low in calcium. The blood tests do not confirm these deficiencies (and the doctor completely discounts the results), so I don't really know what to believe. She shows several symptoms of mag & zinc deficiency - sensory issues, restless sleep, insomnia, photo-sensitivity, constipation, slow growth, and others I'm not thinking of ATM, so I err on the side of believing she IS deficient.
And the importance of calcium is due to her teeth... they are getting worse and worse every week. It is a devastating thing to watch, but I'm trying to help them from the inside as well as from the outside. Another mama on here suggested getting the zinc and mag levels up and then hitting her hard with a lot of calcium? Maybe I should back off on the calcium for now and follow that advice.
To answer your question about the multi we are using - we chose it for its folate and good sources of b vitamins + large % of minerals. And, it was expensive, so I will have to at least stick to it until it's gone But, the only reason I am doing it in two doses is that it tastes nasty and I can't get it in her except when mixing half of it in a strong tasting syrup. I COULD do it in one dose, so maybe that will help with the timing for the other supps.
Perhaps I can do this:
Breakfast 8am- Full daily dose of multi
Snack 10am- butter/clo
Before nap 12pm- Iron (should i do a separate vit c supp?)
After nap 3pm- Magnesium
Dinner 6pm- zinc
Before bed 8pm- Magnesium

She sleeps only about 10 hrs at night and 2-3 hours for one nap in the middle of the day, so it would be about 2-3 hours between doses.

This schedule would facilitate getting zinc/mag/iron up without the interruption of the excess calcium. And perhaps if I see her symptoms decrease and her follow up iron test comes back non-anemic then I can hit her with a lot of calcium?

Blah... this is hard

[sbgrace]

I feel really badly for you momma. I know at times in this journey I've been so incredibly overwhelmed with my son's issues that I didn't even know where to start.

In my experience there is something going on and you're going to have to keep supplementing iron to keep her levels up though not at the levels you'll need to correct. So I wouldn't assume I could correct and then flood with calcium.

Why do you feel you need to split up her calcium in multiple doses. All the research I did (I've done a lot on mineral absorption) showed that up to 500 mg. is absorbed at a time. I admit I'm not familiar w/cell salts and I assume that is the thing with calcium for you and I respect that you need to split. But it seems that some once is better than none, wouldn't it be?

I wish I could give you the perfect solution. Do you have money for any other testing/a doctor who would run them for you? I'm thinking there must be an underlying issue given all those things. Another thing I would want is to track her intake/calories given the growth issue--you can still track nursing intake with a good scale/lactation consultant and it's cheap to get a food scale to weigh her other food intake. In my son's case we were dealing with insufficient intake at some points (reflux related) and then at other points malabsorption. Blender drinks helped here because I could get more calories in my son (and foods he wouldn't otherwise eat) in liquids and the blending helped break it down for digestion for him as well. I also did/do digestive enzymes for him. If she doesn't have allergies pineapple w/meals might be an idea that's less expensive.

Ok, this is what I would do.
Breakfast--make it the ferrous bis-glycinate iron at least 15 mg. but I'd go ahead and do 20 mg. or so if you can w/vitamin C (orange juice would be fine here if she can have it and you don't want ot purchase C). Because you know she's low and that is going to affect things like growth and development you want to fix it. We know that so prioritize it by giving it first. That way you're not dealing with interactions with minerals/foods in a meal prior in the day. I'd do this when she first wakes. I used to give it to my son very first moment we walked in the kitchen essentially.

Snack 10am- butter/clo (cell salts here--why not--especially at the end of the meal so you've got a little mroe time after your iron?)

Before nap 12pm- magnesium (If you didn't above I'd add your sell salts in here personally but I know there is controversy about that idea..still I would since you're also doing magnesium later in the day).

After nap 3pm- zinc (prioritizing this, again, because it's so responsible for growth and her diet is likely deficient in this I'd assume)

Dinner 6pm- multi (and your cell salts--why not?)

Before bed 8pm- Magnesium (this gets you a good magnesium dose--I'd do the highest she tolerates-- on it's own with nothing to interfere afterward.)


When do you go to bed? Another thought is to dissolve one of these things (zinc or if you do the kirkman lab ferrous bis-glycinate capsules those will dissolve in water and have no sugars or anything at all) into water and syringe it in like medicine before you go to sleep in the night or when you get up to go to the bathroom or something like that. I would use something I wasn't worried about hurting her teeth or do it in the very early morning instead. If you can do this without harming your own sleep (and her teeth) I'd do it because it would free up a slot for your cell salts all on their own (and mag. on it's own too). Do look at her calorie intake. If that is adequate for her age you want to look at malabsorption.

Does she have any reflux? Does she struggle with eating/resist eating? What's going on with her teeth in your mind? We struggled with so many "unrelated" issues with my son. How is her energy level?
Have you always struggled with constipation? Does she get enough fat in her diet (too much is a possibility too if there's a metabolic something going on)?

[KimPM]

"dark circles under her eyes"

My DS gets this, as well as dark circles around his eyes when he gets something he's sensitive/allergic to. My DS was having a problem with even the grape flavoring of his multivitamin. So, consider this when/if you are changing her supplements and/or doing more elimination.

[abemom2]

Thanks for the wonderful new info. I have a question regarding my son’s supplementation. He’s 5.5 years old. I’ll stop the multi, but need some help regarding scheduling what will take its place.

He’s in school until 3, and in bed at around 7.

Iron (with B12 in it) + Vit. C in the morning.

Magnesium + Trace Minerals from Mineral Resources Int. at 3:15

Zinc at bedtime. (This I need to get.)

When do I give Probiotic, Omega 3, and Vit. D (he’s really low in Vit. D)? His hair analysis showed him to be low in Sodium, and just, just at Iron, Zinc and Mag. (He showed 129 for Calcium when the range is 125 – 370. Does he need additional Calcium?) His 2 front teeth have a white patch on it – what does that mean? And also 1 tiny cavity in the back. The finger prick test showed him low in Iron. I’m going to have my kids tested for iron soon – a real blood test, not just a prick. We have to wait a bit here in Montreal for an appt.
I’ve been giving Magnesium due to minor constipation etc…

For my hair analysis: I came out low in Iodine, Sodium, Potassium, and high in Copper and Zinc – or is it just an imbalance in my minerals, and I need Zinc? I did an Iodine patch test, painting iodine on myself and it lasted over 18 hrs, so what’s more accurate for Iodine? I also started taking the Trace minerals daily.

Also, when should I take my greens? I have some powders that I mix with water. (My DS likes drinking the Chlorophyll one from time to time, so also for him, when is good?)

How accurate is the hair analysis for Cal/Mag, and generally speaking?

Thanks so much, Ana

[sbgrace]

I replied in thread.

Originally Posted by abemom2

Thanks for the wonderful new info. I have a question regarding my son’s supplementation. He’s 5.5 years old. I’ll stop the multi, but need some help regarding scheduling what will take its place.

He’s in school until 3, and in bed at around 7.

Iron (with B12 in it) + Vit. C in the morning.

Magnesium + Trace Minerals from Mineral Resources Int. at 3:15

Zinc at bedtime. (This I need to get.)

That would be what I would do in that situation. What does he eat at lunch at school?

When do I give Probiotic If it's dairy free it's fine at any point. I give probiotics in the morning (even stuff like culturelle that is, originally, dairy based). I do them in the evening too. If your probiotic is heavily dairy based I'd dump it in lunch if he brings his own or give it at magnesium/trace time I think. Most probiotics it's not going to matter too much as they don't contain much if any protein from their culture base.
Omega 3, and Vit. D (he’s really low in Vit. D)? You can do these at any time too really. I'd probably do D at that 3:15 time but it's ok at any time. Do 2000 IU of D3 per day. Omega 3 would probably be a nice start to the day with breakfast but it won't be an issue anytime you give it.

His hair analysis showed him to be low in Sodium, and just, just at Iron, Zinc and Mag. (He showed 129 for Calcium when the range is 125 – 370. Does he need additional Calcium?) His 2 front teeth have a white patch on it – what does that mean? And also 1 tiny cavity in the back. The finger prick test showed him low in Iron. I’m going to have my kids tested for iron soon – a real blood test, not just a prick. We have to wait a bit here in Montreal for an appt. Address that iron aggressively with the form I mentioned in this thread. That's your priority because you know by blood he's low. If he's low with finger prick he's probably extremely low in ferritin. So supplement aggressively.
Does your son eat any calcium containing foods in the day? If so you might be ok in calcium. If you're not I'd do something fortified with calcium at lunch if he brings his lunch. Other than that I'd throw calcium w/magnesium and trace as you have no choice. I don't do the RDA in calcium with my kids but we're close. There is controversy out there in supplementing at all but I'm just not comfortable based on the research I've done with none.
I’ve been giving Magnesium due to minor constipation etc…

For my hair analysis: I came out low in Iodine, Sodium, Potassium, and high in Copper and Zinc – or is it just an imbalance in my minerals, and I need Zinc? I did an Iodine patch test, painting iodine on myself and it lasted over 18 hrs, so what’s more accurate for Iodine? I also started taking the Trace minerals daily.

Also, when should I take my greens? I have some powders that I mix with water. (My DS likes drinking the Chlorophyll one from time to time, so also for him, when is good?) Greens are going to be high in minerals (including calcium and magnesium). Keep them away from iron and zinc. Optizinc is a good zinc by the way.

How accurate is the hair analysis for Cal/Mag, and generally speaking?
I'm not a fan of hair analysis but I admit I've not researched much.
Thanks so much, Ana

Remember if you need more minerals than you have time for you can use the night. I would probably do is syringe in some iron and C or another mineral I wanted before I went to bed at night. Pick something without sugar that might hurt his teeth.