DH wants LO out of bed, CIO, night wean

[penstamon]

DS just turned 9 months and we've hit another low this week. After the past month or two of tolerable sleep- as in 3-4 nights/week with only 3-5 wakings and the other nights with 6+- DS has seemed to regress again. DH is insistent that he needs to be out of our bed, he needs to stop night nursing (he only nurses 2-3x a night), and that he should sleep longer stretches. I do agree that being in his own space may help because when he sleeps longer stretches at the beginning of the night, usually 3-6.5 hours if lucky, it is always in his side-carred crib. BUT, this could be due to naturally longer sleep cycles at the beginning of the night OR us waking him up when he is with us. DH snores and we are all light sleepers. In addition DH has been getting really stressed over this and is starting to have insomnia problems again. This seems to affect us all.

DS started to have great naps a few months ago and just this past month started to put himself down for naps which has been great- a combination of white noise, putting him down when drowsy, and letting him fuss/talk for a minute or two while I'm nearby. However this will not carry over into nighttime sleep. I am ashamed to say we even tried to let him cry two nights ago for about 10 minutes at 3 in the morning because DH was livid and I just couldn't fight him after waking for the umpteenth time with DS. He just got super worked up and we were all up for another hour putting him back to sleep.

I have been trying to put him back in his crib after night nursing and wakings but last night that meant being up 6 times by 2:30 and then caving in at 3, taking him into bed, only to have him wake for the day at 5:30 He just is not calmed down easily. When he wakes it takes at least 10 minutes of patting his back if we are lucky.

Any advice to get this situation under control? We do not have another room where DS and I can sleep safely away from DH and DH refuses to move (he always has no matter how hard I try). I have read NCSS and SIA and Dr. Sears and a zillion other things but I just can't keep getting out of bed every 20 minutes all night long. Things seemed better when DS was in bed, but I don't think they really were- he only sleeps 30-45 minutes the rest of the night that he is co-sleeping. So essentially I am looking for a way to move him to his crib in our room, eventually to his own room, in hopes that he will sleep better.

Sorry this is long and discombobulated but I am running on a week's worth of 4-5 broken hours of sleep and I have a fussing overtired DS pulling my leg.

[Chamomile Girl]

I'm confused...if your DS has his own room why can't you use that space to co-sleep with him away from your, er...immobile, DH? Because I really think that is what you are going to have to find a way to do. It sounds like everyone would get more sleep that way.

[penstamon]

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl

I'm confused...if your DS has his own room why can't you use that space to co-sleep with him away from your, er...immobile, DH? Because I really think that is what you are going to have to find a way to do. It sounds like everyone would get more sleep that way.

Sorry I was confusing. DS does not technically have his own room. We have a small 2 bd house and the 2nd bd is our home office- DH runs his own business and I WAH pt. We both do a lot of our work at night once DS is in bed. We can't really move the office stuff anywhere because there is just no room for it. There is no chance that we will be getting a larger house for a year minimum. Our plan was to find space in the office for a crib and hope it works out but he wakes so much that for now it does not work to have him in another room. The office does not have enough room for a bed that would be safe for DS and I to sleep in. There is only a small futon in there now and that will have to go if a crib moves in.

I know my DH is being unreasonable but in his defense he has a high stress job that is physically and mentally demanding and we have been having a lot of stress-induced issues in our lives of late. The lack of sleep is a killer and yes, we take every chance we get to catch up on sleep, and no, we have no family or friends to watch DS or help out at night.

[Anastasiya]

Can you sleep in the living room?

I don't get why your DH is not budging. You'd think that a guy who wants sleep, NEEDS sleep, and is getting ticked at all these night wakings would happily grab his pillow and head to the office futon or sofa for a good night's sleep.

Odd.

[puddle]

For awhile, I slept on the living room floor with my DD. It was uncomfortable, but I figured uncomfortable sleep was better than no sleep. If you have a large enough living room or anything, maybe you could get an inflatable mattress to make it more bearable long term, and easy to put away for next day?

Even if every other baby slept all night by the age of 2 weeks and self weaned at 6 months, that doesn't mean that your baby should do anything. Your baby is who your baby is and needs what he needs. I just don't get your DH's way of thinking...

It sounds like DS has a need to sleep with you. Your DH has a need for uninterrupted sleep. You have a need for sleep too. It isn't really fair for any one of those needs to go unmet.

[transylvania_mom]

I'd be furious. It seems your dh doesn't care too much about your baby or your sleep.
I'd gently inform him that I won't do cio or stop co-sleeping if he doesn't help with nighttime parenting. It's not fair to you or the baby.
I totally understand his need for rest, but he has other options, while you and baby don't have any.

[Maluhia]

Sadly you are going to have to stop making excuses re: your DH's stress levels that are negatively affecting the whole family. Simple; "no, I will not do abusive things to our child because you are stressed, if you'd like the whole family to rest better than you can go sleep in the office for a few months until our child starts sleeping like an adult, which could happen soon or when he is..............an adult."

[ssh]

Originally Posted by penstamon

Sorry I was confusing. DS does not technically have his own room. We have a small 2 bd house and the 2nd bd is our home office- DH runs his own business and I WAH pt. We both do a lot of our work at night once DS is in bed. We can't really move the office stuff anywhere because there is just no room for it. There is no chance that we will be getting a larger house for a year minimum. Our plan was to find space in the office for a crib and hope it works out but he wakes so much that for now it does not work to have him in another room. The office does not have enough room for a bed that would be safe for DS and I to sleep in. There is only a small futon in there now and that will have to go if a crib moves in.

I know my DH is being unreasonable but in his defense he has a high stress job that is physically and mentally demanding and we have been having a lot of stress-induced issues in our lives of late. The lack of sleep is a killer and yes, we take every chance we get to catch up on sleep, and no, we have no family or friends to watch DS or help out at night.

I sounds like there really isn't room for a child in your house. Where was your DS going to sleep after he could climb out of his crib? I agree with the idea of some kind of bed in the living room for you and DS. Taking care of your DSs nighttime needs and making sure his sleep experiences are stress free means that he will not have any sleep issues as a child and adult. My DD was waking much more often at your DSs age and at 2.5, after all her teeth were in, she nursed to sleep and then slept about 9 hours before nursing back to sleep for another 2 or 3 hours. Now at 4 years old, she chooses to sleep in her bed and sleeps a solid 10 hours every night with no stress and no bedtime or sleep issues at all. The co-sleeping and night nursing on demand were an investment in our DDs mental health, especially her feelings of security and ability to sleep comfortably.

Here is a link on the effects of stress hormones involved in CIO; http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/li...n_palmer2.html ., and another article mentioning permanent damage http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...enNeedTou.html . Tell your DH that the 2 of you chose to have your DS and now that he's here you refuse to inflict permanent neurological damage by using CIO. It's just 2 or 3 years of inconvenience compared to your DSs entire lifetime.

[penstamon]

Thanks for the replies, support, and links everyone. I am furious, really. My DH can be quite obstinate- who knows why he would be so stubborn about such a difficult issue as he is usually not so inflexible when it comes to serious matters. He REALLY does not want to be "kicked out" of our room. I could try the living room but we have 2 large dogs and a cat who would all join in the family bed at that point. I know it sounds like our house isn't ideal, but its what we have and I know people who have done better with less, given their children slept. We just don't have the $ to move right now- it seemed like we could afford it when we got pregnant but the economy tanked, I only work part time if at all, DH's business is struggling, we have no family here for support, etc, etc.

I know I shouldn't defend DH's actions because they piss me off royally, but he is a great dad and does help at night. He just feels hopeless and powerless that anything is helping. We have gone to every doctor, specialist, therapist in the area and we have only seen minute progress. I think DH has trouble with that lack of power and maybe is insecure about feeling like he will sleep apart from his family? I really don't know because I can't get him to talk about it.

So the gist I'm getting from many of you is that you think it may not be a good idea to try and move DS to sleep on his own, rather he and I should sleep on our own?

[SophieAnn]

Is there space on the main floor/living area for the office furniture?

If you could move the office to the livingroom downstairs, make it a smaller office nook if necessary, then you could sleep in the 2nd bedroom with your DS.

[rhiandmoi]

I am confused. Do you put your DS back in the sidecar after night feedings or do you have him in the bed with you?

Can you separate the crib from your bed and have some distance from you but keep him in the room? He might be wanting his own quiet space to sleep especially if he is sleeping well for the portion of the night when you aren't in the bed with him. What about the temperature in the room? White noise machine? Any sources of light other than red or natural moonlight? It sounds like your little guy is getting overstimulated when he wakes up and that pulls him all the way awake instead of keeping him drowsy. I would try blackout curtains if you have streetlights, a white noise machine, and absolutely no white light at night.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

I was were you are about 6 months ago. My husband never suggested CIO, but always seemed to find a way for Matthews bad sleeping to be my fault. He now has retracted after finally realizing it was NOTHING i did or didnt do.

Eventually, i made a nest on DS's floor in his room (I suggest you do it in the living room) It was AWSOME, and I wish I had just ignored my husband and done it sooner (He was NOT pro-co sleeping) I still have to use it sometimes (Just did last night actually) and my husband doesnt say a THING!

PLease avoid CIO. I gaurentee you neither of you will be able to sleep through it anyway, and you will probably want to throw up after the first five minutes. And regret it forever!

So my vote? Living room. Sianara, (D?)H.

OH, and nightweaning at 9 months is just madness!

[ssh]

Is there room in your bedroom to put a twin bed next to your bed? Your DH might get more sleep if you and your DS were laying on a separate surface. Also something that makes white noise will help, like a fan or humidifier. Night nursing isn't usually noisy when co-sleeping. Also the reason I suggested continuing to co-sleep is because that's how you and your DS will get the most sleep and it's also how your DS will feel most secure and stress free. It sounds like your DH isn't aware of what normal sleep is for babies and toddlers. Here's one resource http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/ . At 9 months you still have a lot of painful teething and major milestones that will disrupt your DSs sleep from time to time. It will just be easier for both of you to co-sleep instead of completely wake up and get out of bed for all of the sleep interruptions that are probably ahead of you. Except for some mainstream parents who aren't aware of the effects of CIO, the medical industry, who profits off of the adult stress related diseases that CIO causes, is the only one that will tell you that you should make your baby sleep alone.

[madskye]

Can you move the office furniture into your bedroom and turn the office into a space dedicated for baby? Would taking office furniture out give you enough space for a bed in there? Then you could start some kind of sleep routine, and baby would have his own space, DH could work and sleep as needed. You can sleep with the baby as much as you can. And if you can get baby to settle down and enjoy his room, you can come back to bed with your husband at some point.

Do you have any kind of rhythm to your night nursing at all? Is there a chance that by initiating a feeding at 11pm or 12am, you could buy yourself a good stretch of sleep until 5 or 6? I think your 1st post sounded like he's getting his uninterupted sleep earlier, you said he's getting 3-6 hours early on?

I don't actually think your DH is being unreasonable--it doesn't sound like he's actually done anything except express frustration at the situation. I'm sure you are frustrated too!

[KimPM]

Originally Posted by penstamon

So the gist I'm getting from many of you is that you think it may not be a good idea to try and move DS to sleep on his own, rather he and I should sleep on our own?

Yes, if DH will not move, then you move out of the bedroom with DS. It sounds like DH's snoring might keep you awake anyway, even if DS had his own room. From the sound of it, you need to catch up on your sleep too. If you have a sleeping bag, you could sleep on the floor next to the crib, moved into some other room...living, dining, office w/ some stuff moved into master bedroom, whatever.

We had DS in a sidecar crib, an around 10 months of age tried to put him in the crib moved away from the bed, but in the same room as us. We got even LESS sleep that way. What we did was that DH moved downstairs to the futon for awhile. Then later he moved back upstairs, while DS and I moved into the other bedroom (after we moved the office stuff out...sound familiar?). I could have moved out when DS night weaned and he started sleeping through the night. But DS and I are still there, as he has high anxiety and still needs me to sleep there. DH doesn't love the arrangement, but he's okay with it because we all sleep better this way.

[staceychev]

Oh, and 9 months is really tough. He might start settling in a bit soon. I remember 9 months being horrible with DD1!

[JennaW]

I just want to offer and say that I can EMPATHIZE with your small house issues. We live in a 660 sq foot house. My DH bought it at the height of the market before we were married (or even engaged.) It is technically a 2 bedroom "jack and jill" (two bedrooms with a small bathroom in between.) Other then those rooms there is a "living room" (also small) and a kitchen. That is our whole house. We use the bigger of the two bedrooms as a living room and the living room as a dining room. Our laptop lives on our dining room table.

Luckily in our situation my DH is 100% on board with co-sleeping, night nursing- even when it is rough. But if he weren't, I can see how it would be hard to have space for everyone. I think trying to sleep on a blow up bed in the living room is worth a shot. As for your dogs, we put up a baby gate to our kitchen and they sleep there at night. Before we had DD we used to let them sleep with us but now it is too much. Maybe the cats could sleep in the bedroom with your DH?

[KimPM]

And did you see this article...maybe you could show it to your DH...
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1217698
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8636950.stm
CIO is harmful to baby's brain

[transylvania_mom]

Originally Posted by penstamon

I know I shouldn't defend DH's actions because they piss me off royally, but he is a great dad and does help at night. He just feels hopeless and powerless that anything is helping. We have gone to every doctor, specialist, therapist in the area and we have only seen minute progress. I think DH has trouble with that lack of power and maybe is insecure about feeling like he will sleep apart from his family? I really don't know because I can't get him to talk about it.

So the gist I'm getting from many of you is that you think it may not be a good idea to try and move DS to sleep on his own, rather he and I should sleep on our own?

Most babies have broken sleep (in my limited experience), which sounds abnormal to us... but they get the rest they need. My dd has 45 min. naps, but she has 3 or 4 naps a day. It doesn't mean something's wrong with her, she's in the 90th percentile in length and weight and developmentally on track.
I used to feel that lack of control when dh suggested that I sleep with ds... I needed rest, he needed sleep, baby ds needed to nurse at night, it was the best compromise, but I still felt like I was losing dh. But it went by so fast! When I look at my now 5 y/o who sleeps in his own room and actually asks me to close the door after the bedtime story, I can't believe he's the same person. Pretty soon he'll want to read by himself and all I'm left with will be the memories of our sleepless nights
Your dh will need to compromise, so ALL the family members have their needs met. Either by sleeping in another room, or having your ds sleep in his crib, but bringing him to you when it's time to nurse, or helping you nightwean (although I think he's a little too young for that). Good luck in finding a solution soon

[penstamon]

Well DH went to sleep in the other room last night after an argument and got to sleep for 7.5 uninterrupted hours. And now he is mad at me and won't talk to me ?%&*#@! I, on the other hand, was up with DS all night- no difference without DH there except one less set of hands to comfort DS- and am truly exhausted yet again. *sigh*

Thanks for all your words of wisdom. Its nice to have somewhere to vent. This has been going on for so long that I know we've just hit another bump in the road but I do hope to find some solution that works for ALL of us. I think DH was just blowing off steam the other night when he was demanding that DS needs to leave the bed and nightwean. I am getting truly sick of all that steam though!