To window or not to window?

[nd_deadhead]

Our house is 21 years old, built as a spec house, so the windows were not great quality. We do have condensation issues in the winter, thanks to 3 large fish tanks. I do put 3M window plastic on every year, but some years I get it on late (or it gets really cold early), so we've have big iceberg on the interior woodwork. Some of the windows have water damage; others have cranks that don't work (they are casement windows). Two more have damage from carpenter ants.

DH refinished the interiors about 5 years ago, but he did a crappy job and used the wrong finish, so it looks worse now than it did before he touched them (he also managed to sand the glass which he was sanding the wood - argggh!)

I would love to replace the windows. Marvin makes a window that is fiberglass, inside and out - there is no wood at all. I want these!

But at the same time, I truly hate to throw things out until I've gotten as much use out of them as I possibly can. Most of the windows still work, and look OK (if not great), so I'm having trouble justifying the expense.

BUT, this may be the last year of the new window tax rebate, and that is a significant factor. I can't see waiting 2 or 3 years, and paying $1500 more.

How does one decide if windows really NEED to be replaced?

[TwinMomPlus]

Sounds like to me that yours do!

We are replacing ours this weekend, actually. We dragged out feet for 5 years but it is time. They are single pane and have no insulation or weatherstripping around them so cold air just rushes in. They also have condensation issues and have black mold on them. The screens don't meet the edge perfectly so bugs can get in easily. I am looking forward to all the heating/cooling savings we should expect to see!

[AAK]

Replace them!!!

Seriously, when we were in an older house, that was the best thing we did. Saved on the heat bill, more than we expected.

And, I don't know about Marvin windows, but we have great ones here and they just weren't That expensive. If I had condensation issues, or more. . . I wouldn't hesitate!

amy

[MCsMom]

Do you have the money to replace them now? What would you do with the money instead of replacing them?

[SeekingJoy]

Are you in an area with hgh utility bills? I would replace them ASAP if I was in your situation and it would save us money long term.

[SleeplessMommy]

the condensation is on the windows or on your walls?

get an energy audit. you want to put your home fixup $$$ to the most effective possible use... which might be wall or attic insulation.

[nd_deadhead]

I live in North Dakota, and when it's cold outside, we get condensation on the inside of the windows. If there isn't plastic on the windows, that condensation freezes into a huge chunk of ice on the lower corners, which is really hard on the wood.

Part of the issue is that we have 2 (formerly 3) large fish tanks in the house, and therefore a high humidity level in the winter. We also don't have bathroom exhaust fans, so humidity generated from 4 showers every day builds up in the house as well (putting an exhaust fan in the upstairs bathroom is one of our summer projects). The house was built in 1989 and is fairly well insulated - which is why the moisture level builds up. We don't get condensation on the walls.

Our utility bills (gas and electric) are $140 per month, averaged over the year. I don't know off the top of my head how much of that is gas and how much electric.

[mnnice]

I know that houses that are too tight have more issues with condensation. I know that my parent's house of the same vintage had the same issue and my dad added a bunch more roof vents and the problem was greately reduced.

I think you need to figure out the why of your problem before you replace the widows so you don't have the same issue again. You can get new fiberglass windows that won't rot, but they could still be covered with icky mold.

[sunflower.mama]

Replacing the windows won't help you if you are getting condensation from inside the house - it will make it worse. We replaced our aluminum sliders a few years back - those windows would be sheets of ice on the inside in the winter. You couldn't see out! That issue is resolved, but the new windows make the house much "tighter". As in, if I run a humidifier in a sick child's room, I need to wipe the windows down in the morning because they are covered in water and mold will build up on the frames in a couple of days. So I would think if you have inside-sourced condensation with windows that are not so tight - your problem will be magnified once you replace them, unless you take other steps. Not complaining here, as we love our windows. But I have noticed that issue.

[lmonter]

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

BUT, this may be the last year of the new window tax rebate, and that is a significant factor. I can't see waiting 2 or 3 years, and paying $1500 more.

How does one decide if windows really NEED to be replaced?

Honestly, unless you're trying to sell your house or something, I'd wait on the windows. They may look weird, but if they close, don't do too much heat loss and so on, just roll with it. And save up for when a baseball/baseball bat hits the window or an owl or woodpecker tries to commit suicide, etc.

We replaced our windows this winter. Because we're trying to get our house on the market. Plus our windows were 30 year old aluminum framed ones that always (always!) froze open or shut during the winter (yes, I'd have to haul out the hair dryer to defrost the patio door - even with a wood stove going!). Also discovered that the builder hadn't bothered to insulate *around* the windows, and that our front door was only held in place by the nailed-in trim around it. *sigh*

Anyway. Ours were starting to mold to where we couldn't get them clean anymore, were more and more difficult to open/close, and you could most certainly feel the difference in heat/heat loss from them.

If you do decide to get the windows, take into account labor if you can't install them yourselves.
Also do a cost analysis of it.
We too were intrigued by the federal tax credit. But said credit requires more expensive windows that were backordered at the time we needed to get things going asap. Hubby did the math with those windows and the tax credit vs. getting less expensive but still good windows and just doing a local utility rebate for them. With the federal, we would've spent over $500 more for all the windows, and only gotten back $40 for the credit. We just went with the power company rebate and less expensive windows and got either $200 or $400 back from 'em (I can't remember, it's been a while). Although I think we did get some little something on our income taxes from replacing the patio and front doors, but don't quote me on that. It was goofy to say the least.

[nola79]

I would replace them. Not only for the tax credit, but because it would be more energy efficent, and save you money in the long run.

[SleeplessMommy]

You NEED the bathroom exhaust fan. Good plan to install it this summer! Also a $20 indoor humidity monitor - try to keep the indoor humidity between 30-70% to be comfortable. If any of the fish tanks are "open", a cover could help.

I understand about sheets of ice on aluminum sliders ... I have been there and done that. Aluminum sliders may be the easiest type of window to replace, a possible DIY job.

The are some possible shortcuts to window replacement - leaving the casement in place if the same manufacturer makes an upgraded window for example. Or adding weatherstripping to existing windows (won't fix the ND problem, but it helped us lots!)

[nd_deadhead]

I know the condensation/lack of adequate ventilation is definitely an issue - but we're not getting rid of the fish tanks!

We are going to install an exhaust fan in our upstairs bathroom this summer, and probably replace the roof. At that time, we'll get the roof venting checked out, and probably add more.

If the new windows are insulated enough that I don't have to put plastic on them, we'll be able to open them once in a while in the winter, which will also help reduce the moisture level in the house.

We probably will get higher-end windows when the time comes, because we do live in such a cold place. Last year wasn't even an especially cold winter, and we had a 12-day stretch where it didn't get above 0 F, and was around -30 for a few days.

[SleeplessMommy]

be sure to have the bathroom fan vented to the outside, not into the attic!!

[lucyem]

I just read your post to my DH. He is a weatherization technical specialist for our state. This is his reply.

Typically new windows are not cost effective. If you really cannot close them in the winter and are really rotted then yes replace them. But for energy efficiency you will not see much if any difference.

The biggest red flag to him is the moisture. New windows will not fix moisture. The moisture is not healthy for you or your house. He says you NEED fans in your bathrooms vented to the outside. Fish tanks need to be covered. He said he would be surprised if you did not have mold issues in your attic. He said in his work it is very rare to replace windows. They deal with moisture first and then insulation. Moisture is the first priority because of health and safety.

[gwen's mom]

this may be the last year of the new window tax rebate

Just keep in mind that you must have a tax liability (you must owe taxes) or you do not get the federal energy tax credit. We always get a refund and therefore did not qualify for the federal tax credit that we had been counting on, after replacing windows and doors. Please, learn from me and make 100% sure you know what you're getting into.

We have been on a quest for lower energy bills since moving into our first home two years ago. We bought a 50 year old ranch and replaced the furnace, all windows and doors, and siding, and purchased all new, energy efficient appliances. Despite all of these upgrades, our utility bill has only gone down $30/month. Tread carefully, mama.

[lucyem]

Originally Posted by gwen's mom

We have been on a quest for lower energy bills since moving into our first home two years ago. We bought a 50 year old ranch and replaced the furnace, all windows and doors, and siding, and purchased all new, energy efficient appliances. Despite all of these upgrades, our utility bill has only gone down $30/month. Tread carefully, mama.

This is something my husband sees all the time. Yes those things help but not as much as people are led to believe. The replacement window industry for example has really done a very good job convincing people new windows will fix the problem. Windows are also something you look at every day. You are not seeing the missing or wet or squished insulation doing nothing in your walls. We live in a 250 yr old house. Windows are from the late 1800's we believe. No my husband will not touch them. He has a whole technical reason why it is pointless. They have storm windows. He is putting money into weatherizing under the kitchen and in the attic. Plus he found these cool blow up plastic tubes to fit inside the chimney.

[nd_deadhead]

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

be sure to have the bathroom fan vented to the outside, not into the attic!!

That is a given.

[nd_deadhead]

Originally Posted by gwen's mom

Just keep in mind that you must have a tax liability (you must owe taxes) or you do not get the federal energy tax credit. We always get a refund and therefore did not qualify for the federal tax credit that we had been counting on, after replacing windows and doors. Please, learn from me and make 100% sure you know what you're getting into. .

I definitely have a tax liability, sufficient to benefit from a credit.

Originally Posted by gwen's mom

We have been on a quest for lower energy bills since moving into our first home two years ago. We bought a 50 year old ranch and replaced the furnace, all windows and doors, and siding, and purchased all new, energy efficient appliances. Despite all of these upgrades, our utility bill has only gone down $30/month. Tread carefully, mama.

Our utility bills are not really the issue - they aren't that high to start with. The bigger issue is that the windows were cheap to start with, they have been damaged by moisture and carpenter ants (then ants have been dealt with, and haven't been back for 3 years, the moisture is this year's project), so eventually they need to be replaced. DH just finished grad school and landed a pretty nice job, so our income has increased fairly substantially this year - which is why we're looking at catching up on home improvement projects that we've been putting off (due to a shortage of time and extra funds).

[nd_deadhead]

Originally Posted by lucyem

I just read your post to my DH. He is a weatherization technical specialist for our state. This is his reply.

Typically new windows are not cost effective. If you really cannot close them in the winter and are really rotted then yes replace them. But for energy efficiency you will not see much if any difference.

The biggest red flag to him is the moisture. New windows will not fix moisture. The moisture is not healthy for you or your house. He says you NEED fans in your bathrooms vented to the outside. Fish tanks need to be covered. He said he would be surprised if you did not have mold issues in your attic. He said in his work it is very rare to replace windows. They deal with moisture first and then insulation. Moisture is the first priority because of health and safety.

I completely agree with your DH. I have been researching fans, and plan to put a large inline fan upstairs, to vent both the upstairs bathroom and our bedroom (where one of the fish tanks is located). because our lower level is finished, I'm not sure how I would go about wiring or venting a fan in the downstairs bathroom, without gutting half the room, which is why I'm looking at increasing the air flow from upstairs. The boys always shower with the door open downstairs, so the moisture generateed there isn't confined to the bathroom.

In addition to the exhaust fan, my next area of research is providing makeup air for the volume if air that is removed with the fan.

I understand that replacing the windows will not fix the problem - I want to solve the problem, then replace the windows to repair damage that has already been done. I really don't expect to see a significant difference in our heat bill, since I'm already pretty diligent about putting plastic on the windows, the insulation in the house is decent (we have 6" walls, and have insulated outlets on the exterior walls), but the windows look like crap, and the hardware doesn't work on a few of the windows - we can get them closed, but if we open them, it is a pain to close them again (they have to be closed from the outside, and two if them are on the second floor).

The attic is pretty well ventilated (with soffit vents and 5 roof vents), but when I go up to install the bathroom fan, I will inspect the insulation up there as well. I appreciate your DH's comments!