Will we be ok if we don't take probiotics?

[Koalamom]

My kids are very allergic to all homemade probiotics, like they break out and start bleeding all over their bums and legs. Sorry if TMI.
What we have tried is:
lacto fermented sauerkraut, pickles, carrots, homemade and store bought- no difference
yogurt- store bought, raw homemade
kefir- homemade with cows milk, or raw goats milk
and newly water kefir.

I thought we were ok with the water kefir as I was fermenting it very little and I noticed that it was just very sweet and probably not doing much like we are just drink maple syrup water. So by letting it sit a little longer, and only giving my kids a teaspoon, they have broken out, no fun.

I am just sick of this. What is up with my kids? Amine chemicals right? So are we doomed to not tolerate cultures? I can't afford store bought cultures, so what am I to do? I am going crazy thinking that my kids HAVE to have cultures to be healthy. What do I do?? Could I serve them carrot juice and have the enzymes take place of cultures or trust their guts to produce probiotics on their own?

[sbgrace]

Well, if you're not giving things that kill them off they probably do have them. I've heard of people using biotin with kids who don't tolerate probiotics.

[mbravebird]

You know, in the mainstream medical studies they've done on intestinal bacteria, they've found that the body does replenish the bacteria on its own, even after antibiotics. It takes a while, which is how the bad bacs build up, but the body does it.

Normally, in a non-antibiotic situation, the body uses the bacterial reserves in the appendix to replenish the intestinal tract. So if your kids both have their appendix, I think you can feel pretty confident that they're harboring a healthy store of good bacteria in there.

How frustrating, though, to not be able to support them in that way! I know you're supporting them in tons of other ways, though. I don't know about amines. But what about the pre-biotics, the foods that encourage the growth and adhesion of beneficial bacteria, while not actually providing the bacteria? Jerusalem artichoke is on that list, I think?? Which is funny, because Jerusalem chokes are not allowed on SCD. Anyway, here's a link that does a good job of explaining pre-biotic foods:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prebiotic_%28nutrition%29

[Koalamom]

Thanks for the replies!
Off to check out biotin and prebiotics...

[WuWei]

Caution biotin kills candida and releases mercury. Many people react to bottled prebiotics around here.

Pat

[NettleTea]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Caution biotin kills candida and releases mercury.

Can you provide more info about it releasing mercury?

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Caution biotin kills candida and releases mercury. Many people react to bottled prebiotics around here.

Pat

Perhaps that is why I feel sick when I rake biotin.

Now about these prebiotics, I cannot afford to buy bottled ones, but there has got to be more than listed on wikepedia, I feel sick if I eat too many jerusalem artichokes.

Pat, what do you think will happen if we don't consume probiotics for a while? Will we wither over and blow away?

[WuWei]

All raw produce has microbials on it. There are microbials everywhere. You could try just 1/8 teaspoon of kefir, daily or every other day even. There are tons of beneficial microbials in just a small amount.

With biotin, as I recall, it does something to the cell wall of candida -releasing the mercury. Don't quote me on that, but something like that. Hard to find info.

Even just a small bite of sauerkraut or fermented veggies is huge. Raw juice has beneficial microbials too.

The key to me would be maximizing nutrients: magnesium, zinc, B6, B12, folate, sulfate, molybdenum to help excrete toxins and heavy metals BEFORE worrying about a lot of probiotics, with such a strong reaction. Only really messed up guts seem to have such a severe reaction, from what I've seen. So, go slowly, even if just once a week, once a month trial a smidgen. It will make a difference.


Pat

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by WuWei

All raw produce has microbials on it. There are microbials everywhere. You could try just 1/8 teaspoon of kefir, daily or every other day even. There are tons of beneficial microbials in just a small amount.

Even just a small bite of sauerkraut or fermented veggies is huge. Raw juice has beneficial microbials too.

The key to me would be maximizing nutrients: magnesium, zinc, B6, B12, folate, sulfate, molybdenum to help excrete toxins and heavy metals BEFORE worrying about a lot of probiotics, with such a strong reaction. Only really messed up guts seem to have such a severe reaction, from what I've seen. So, go slowly, even if just once a week, once a month trial a smidgen. It will make a difference.


Pat

Even a lick of any fermented veggie will give both my kids horrible rashes.
Water kefir is the only culture that we are able to handle.

I think this new reaction blowout could be due to the factory letting off more toxins that usual of the fact that I have a crumbling mercury filling.

I never though that we have "really messed up guts" but I guess you are right. We eat so careful and are finally making headway. Oh why can't it be easier? And we are trying to do as much whole foods as possible to get the essential nutrients without supplementing but it isn't always possible. We sometimes end up in a mess with bottled supplements. Like the b6 I was taking felt so good but after a few weeks, I felt so sick from it. High amounts of brewers yeast never makes me sick.

Do you think a 24 hr ferment of water kefir is even enough to make enough cultures or are we just drinking sugar water?

We have been doing so much to heal our guts but this kind of reaction makes me feel like we are still really messed up. And for both of my kids to have this reaction is strange, one nursing, and one not. Are there other factors besides amine sensitivities and metal/toxins that cause a reaction to fermented foods? My Dh has a rare genetic disorder that the kids may have called porphyria. I always wonder if it is related to that? Guess I am grasping at straws hoping we aren't that toxic.

[WuWei]

porphyria has an interesting historical story!

the 24 hour kefir has significant microbials.

Toxin loads don't help, certainly. I've had a lifetime supply and then some, myself.

I don't know all of your microbial history, but the key is stomach acid. Are you alkalizing with lemon in water, no liquids with meals, adequate zinc?

Pat

[Koalamom]

What do you know about porphyria? I just know the precautions my dh has to take to avoid dying from it. We have to be careful with abx and couldn't take them for lyme since my dh almost died from them when he had lyme. I have tried several times seeing if others on here have to dal with porphyria and I got nothing.


As for stomach acid, I have tried taking zinc and feel really sick when I do, so I assumed that I didn't need it. We are allergic to lemon, but do drink nettles infusions half the time in place of water. Is tha good enough?
I do need to find a better supplement of zinc for my dd as it tastes really bad. What do you do for zinc?

Doesn't extra copper make the need for zinc? I just remembered that my gold crown is mainly copper since a pure gold crown wouldn't hold up to chewing.

But we do take lots of molybdenum and that is supposed to lower copper in the body.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

What do you know about porphyria? I just know the precautions my dh has to take to avoid dying from it. We have to be careful with abx and couldn't take them for lyme since my dh almost died from them when he had lyme. I have tried several times seeing if others on here have to dal with porphyria and I got nothing.

Apparently porphyria is related to the stories of vampires historically.

I don't know more than it messes up heme production.

As for stomach acid, I have tried taking zinc and feel really sick when I do, so I assumed that I didn't need it. We are allergic to lemon, but do drink nettles infusions half the time in place of water. Is tha good enough?
I do need to find a better supplement of zinc for my dd as it tastes really bad. What do you do for zinc?

There are some children's chewables. Or those zinc cough drops are flavored with sugar. We eat pumpkin seeds.

What about lime? A bit of sauerkraut juice or cabbage juice?

I read that Nettles has zinc. I didn't know that.

Doesn't extra copper make the need for zinc? I just remembered that my gold crown is mainly copper since a pure gold crown wouldn't hold up to chewing.

But we do take lots of molybdenum and that is supposed to lower copper in the body.

Not sure about the amalgam in gold crowns, interesting. I just read, "If a gold crown is anywhere in the mouth, mercury comes off faster. "
http://www.hugginsappliedhealing.com/story1.php

Worse news every day.

Pat

[Koalamom]

Looking in Susun Weeds Healing Wise book:
Per 100 grams nettles there is 4.7 mg zinc. That is like 30% daily value. Pretty good if you consume 100 grams per day, but I don't come close to that.

1 ounce is 30 grams as listed in the book and I use a heaping tablespoon per cup of water. I would love to get that anylized, still waiting to see how the bone broth is coming...

[Koalamom]

Just looked up http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=115 and 1/4 cup pumpkin seeds have only 17% daily value of zinc. Oh but liver has high amounts. I can do that. Off to thaw some grass fed liver.

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Apparently porphyria is related to the stories of vampires historically.

I don't know more than it messes up heme production.

Pat

Good thing my dh doesn't suck blood.
He actually has to give blood in dangerous high amounts to relieve some symptoms, but he still has to eat all the time, and be careful if he gets sick; it could lead to major issues, deadly attacks. Luckily we are good at knowing is something is going to happen and what to do to stop it in its tracks. Crazy to think my kids could have this too.


I just realized that we have been eating Lewis Labs Brewers Yeast everyday and that is from cultures. And doing some research it has all the stuff that supports a healthy/safe detox. A new book I recently got says that selenium non cultured and non natural isn't actually utilized by the body, or if it is, it is barely used. But if it is a cultured source of selenium, it is utilized completely. Brewers yeast is full of selenium. Brewers yeast is saccharomyces cerevisiae I think, still researching this. Now hopefully this doesn't have any negative effects on us. We feel great with this and ds is so much more content nursing since I take this.

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

I just realized that we have been eating Lewis Labs Brewers Yeast everyday and that is from cultures. And doing some research it has all the stuff that supports a healthy/safe detox. A new book I recently got says that selenium non cultured and non natural isn't actually utilized by the body, or if it is, it is barely used. But if it is a cultured source of selenium, it is utilized completely. Brewers yeast is full of selenium. Brewers yeast is saccharomyces cerevisiae I think, still researching this. Now hopefully this doesn't have any negative effects on us. We feel great with this and ds is so much more content nursing since I take this.

So this is different from Nutritional Yeast, right? Is it better? I've gotten Brewer's Yeast occasionally (don't know the brand), but have never really known the specific differences, so always go back to what I'm used to, which is nutritional yeast. Will you school me?

[Koalamom]

From my understanding, nutritional yeast is synthetic, and brewers yeast is all natural nothing added. And since the nutrients are formed by culturing, they are readily usable. Also the only non gmo brewers yeast on the market is from Lewis Labs. It was only after adding this in that I was able to ge tmy iron up and my energy to finally getup too. Nettles really helps, but this was the icing on the cake. I would like to say that it helped with post pregnancy hair loss, but it could just be a coincidence that it stopped after I started taking it.

[NettleTea]

Originally Posted by WuWei

\
With biotin, as I recall, it does something to the cell wall of candida -releasing the mercury. Don't quote me on that, but something like that. Hard to find info.

So are you saying that when one attempts to dissolve candida from their system that it will release mercury? Of what relation is candida to mercury? I have never heard of this.

[TonyaW]

I wonder if it is possible they are reacting to the yeasts in the cultures. Maybe you could try a culture with no yeast.

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

From my understanding, nutritional yeast is synthetic, and brewers yeast is all natural nothing added. And since the nutrients are formed by culturing, they are readily usable. Also the only non gmo brewers yeast on the market is from Lewis Labs. It was only after adding this in that I was able to ge tmy iron up and my energy to finally getup too. Nettles really helps, but this was the icing on the cake. I would like to say that it helped with post pregnancy hair loss, but it could just be a coincidence that it stopped after I started taking it.

Wow, I thought that nutritional yeast was cultured, too. I thought it was grown on molasses. It's all so dim in my memory now -- I just made the decision that it was good enough and don't remember anymore. Thank you for the Lewis Labs recommendation. I'm glad it's working well for you guys! I agree that it must be a source of beneficials. I'm going to look into it for us, too.