i wish sally fallon....

[UrbanSimplicity]

was as excited about breastmilk as she is about cow's milk! i watch her and she all too often mentions "the women who for whatever reason can't nurse....." making it sound like this is a widespread problem.

that being said, if you are one of the VERY FEW women whose baby would not thrive by exclusive bf, then I do think her formula rec's are the best alternative.

[Aubergine68]

You're not the first to think that thought.

I was trying to promote Sally Fallon's work to a lactation consultant I know and she could not get past what she saw as Fallon's lack of credibility re: breastfeeding info. Disappointing.

[Gingercat]

I totally agree on this! The info she provides on breastfeeding is disappointing; she seems to promote cow's milk if the mom does not have the perfect (according to her opinion!) diet.

Cows milk is almost always an inferior option to breastmilk even for malnourished mothers, no doubt about that.

Whenever I tried to get friends to read her ideas they seem to almost instantly dismiss them the moment they read the breastfeeding advice

Too bad as I'm sure that Dr. Weston Price witnessed widespread breastfeeding in all these traditional cultures he visited; a species cannot really survive healthily in the long-term unless it consumes its own breastmilk in infancy.

We live in a culture where breastfeeding is not the norm so big organisations such as the WPF should encourage breastfeeding and not dismiss it if a mother does not have the "perfect" diet!

[mamaleche]

Yes! Yes! I just received my TF book and yikes was I surprised to read her take on breastfeeding. How unfortunate to make it seem that one's diet needs to be so perfect. Feels easier to me to eat well than to make the formula. There so much more to breastfeeding too... I'm planning to take the good and leave the bad. I wonder if she breastfed. I don't know anything about her though. I'm just wondering because that can make a different and biased perspective.

[briome]

agreed

[Llyra]

Yeah. It irritates the crap out of me.

[blueridgewoman]

mamaleche, for what I understand, she "couldn't" breastfeed, which I suspect has colored her whole perspective on the issue. But yes, it drives me nuts too. Breastmilk, in my opinion, is pretty much the most traditional of all traditional foods.

[fruitfulmomma]

Her personal experience certainly biases her on this issue.

Perhaps Nina Plack might be a better example... http://www.ninaplanck.com/ She is very pro-breastfeeding.

[MamaGwynn]

Yes when I first read NT I was certainly disappointed with the breastfeeding info.

Was there ever any mention of breastfeeding by Dr. Price in his writings?

The WAP foundation really needs to promote breastfeeding more. It has such a profound impact on one's health... and teeth!

[organicmidwestmama]

ita. i can't really read her section on baby feeding in NT. it just irks me. but overall, she has hopefully helped 1000s of people feed themselves better, in general. love nina planck, she is completely pro-tf and also pro-bf!

[witchygrrl]

Yeah, Nina Planck totally picks up Sally Fallon's slack on the issue. Love her stuff!

[AJP]

This has been hashed out so many times here, sorry I don't have a link to any of the old conversations, there were some good ones. SF's attitude and public statements about breastfeeding are very damaging to the WAPF as an organization, and turn away so many people. It's unfortunate that some people won't just take the good and ignore the bad, but it's equally unfortunate that there's any "bad" in the organization's writings to begin with.

MamaGwynn, in Price's book I only recall one specific mention of breastfeeding. It's in a photo caption where he points out the size of the child nursing, IIRC it's from one of the Polynesian cultures and is a mother with a toddler sitting on her lap nursing, the child appears to be at least 2 years, possibly older. This was one of the "healthy" photos, so he's commenting favorably. But I don't think he specifically said anything else about it in the book.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

Her personal experience certainly biases her on this issue.

Perhaps Nina Plack might be a better example... http://www.ninaplanck.com/ She is very pro-breastfeeding.

My thoughts, too. I love Nina Planck - and she's breastfed 3 now (including twins). Her first baby nursed until he was 2, and I imagine the twins are still nursing. She has good things to say about breastfeeding.

Fallon just seems bitter about the whole thing, and that colors her opinion on it and recommendations.

[UrbanSimplicity]

I think WAP mentions that the babies in one group - perhaps polynesian as I also remember the photo of that great chunky baby - were bf till about one year of age. actually, perhaps it's the inuit.

Seriously, I think we should write an open letter to Sally Fallon. Rather than discouraging moms with a less-than-ideal diet from bf-ing, she should focus on encouraging them to eat better for both their babies and themselves.

Any mom eating fast food and the SAD diet it not going to be giving her baby raw milk and egg formula, she will use commercial formula.

Do we have any gifted writers in the group?

[Drummer's Wife]

Well, and a mother eating fast food and the SAD is still better off breastfeeding than feeding her infant WAPF's formula recipe - regardless of what Sally Fallon believes.
Posted via Mobile Device

[lactivistmama]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

Well, and a mother eating fast food and the SAD is still better off breastfeeding than feeding her infant WAPF's formula recipe - regardless of what Sally Fallon believes.
Posted via Mobile Device

Very well said!!

[ltlmrs]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

Her personal experience certainly biases her on this issue.

Perhaps Nina Plack might be a better example... http://www.ninaplanck.com/ She is very pro-breastfeeding.

One of the things that irks me most about WAPF is their complete ideological "toe the line or else" approach to food. And sometimes, like breastfeeding, it is entirely opinion based rather than fact based. I don't like the way they criticize people who would be their natural allies just because they are not part of the WAPF.

I think there was a thread on here about this, but the review of Plank's baby foods book was entirely inappropriate and I think they even pointed out that it was Plank's fault that she ended up having a c-section. Yet the fact that Sally Fallon couldn't nurse is not her fault because some women really can't... I really cannot believe that even with their great diets all traditional people had perfect health, to me that doesn't take into account our fallen world.

That and they don't take into account that different traditional cultures ate different things. For example, I know for a fact that Russian peasants ate refined grains: semolina porridge is one thing that comes to mind.

If it weren't for the fact that I know for a fact that my family has eaten TF for many generations and that some of the health problems my siblings have are directly affected by SAD, I wouldn't have wanted to eat TF purely because WAPF really turns me off.

[Gingercat]

Originally Posted by UrbanSimplicity

Seriously, I think we should write an open letter to Sally Fallon. Rather than discouraging moms with a less-than-ideal diet from bf-ing, she should focus on encouraging them to eat better for both their babies and themselves.

They have repeatedly attacked La Leche League and any lactation consultant who sent them a letter, so I believe that there's no way to listen to "just a group of mothers"...

Originally Posted by ltlmrs

That and they don't take into account that different traditional cultures ate different things. For example, I know for a fact that Russian peasants ate refined grains: semolina porridge is one thing that comes to mind.

This is the other thing I don't like about them: they generalize too much! They do not try to adapt their guidelines to one's origins and tradition. Not all traditional people consumed sauerkraut and raw liver! For examples Greeks certainly did not eat these things so it does not make sense to me to eat them or to give them to my children. We'd be much better off to eat sheep's yogurt, kefir and naturally fermented olives that have been a part of the Greek tradition for centuries.

Originally Posted by ltlmrs

I don't like the way they criticize people who would be their natural allies just because they are not part of the WAPF.

I often complain about this; for example they dismissed Nina Planck , Michael Pollan and recently kicked out Dr. Mercola just because he has a different opinion on CLO.

[fruitfulmomma]

but the review of Plank's baby foods book was entirely inappropriate and I think they even pointed out that it was Plank's fault that she ended up having a c-section.

That was really my last straw with them. I hadn't put two and two together regarding Fallon's BF'ing vs. Planck's C-Section, but yeah, totally hypocritical.

I really cannot believe that even with their great diets all traditional people had perfect health, to me that doesn't take into account our fallen world.

And I agree with this. I also do not appreciate their stand on family planning which really has a eugenic slant to it.

[ltlmrs]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

And I agree with this. I also do not appreciate their stand on family planning which really has a eugenic slant to it.

It absolutely does! The idea that people didn't used to have kids less than three years apart is ridiculous! While it is true that in some societies it is customary for the wife to leave her husband's bed until the baby is weaned, in many cases this occurs in societies with polygamy...

Originally Posted by Gingercat

They have repeatedly attacked La Leche League and any lactation consultant who sent them a letter, so I believe that there's no way to listen to "just a group of mothers"...

In other words, they excommunicate people enough that us uneducated, unenlightened mothers don't stand a chance

Originally Posted by Gingercat

This is the other thing I don't like about them: they generalize too much! They do not try to adapt their guidelines to one's origins and tradition. Not all traditional people consumed sauerkraut and raw liver! For examples Greeks certainly did not eat these things so it does not make sense to me to eat them or to give them to my children. We'd be much better off to eat sheep's yogurt, kefir and naturally fermented olives that have been a part of the Greek tradition for centuries.

It's funny, but the people who popularized raw liver were the Soviets who introduced it into children's diets along with weaning by 9 months (this was their effort at modernization). Every Russian cookbook (in Russian) that I have calls for cooked liver. There's plenty of salted fish, but no raw liver.