O date opinions please!

[DoulaLMT]

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2b5a6f

This is a friend's chart. This is her first month charting, and I'm trying to help her figure out when she O'd. The reason she's charting is to figure out how long her LP is (she has VERY short cycles) so it's important to figure out the most likely O date. She said the CM on CD 13 was very minimal and only early in the morning. She also said overall her CM was much less than normal this month.

So, do you think she O'd on CD 11 or CD 13??

We might just have to wait until next month to see what her cycle looks like....

[DoulaLMT]

Ok it looks like she removed the CM on CD 13. Originally she had wet CM, and FF moved her O date to CD 13.

[karmab]

truly this is a tough one. i would STRONGLY suggest next cycle she add opks and check her cp as well! is her cm very reliable- i.e. is there the possibility that it is confused with her dh's contribution? without the bd data and the cp and opks though, it's a tough tough call, and im not usually stumped.

[karmab]

i would probably vote for cd11 if it werent for watery on cd13.

[DoulaLMT]

I'm stumped too, that's why I'm looking to see if anyone sees something I didn't. She didn't try to conceive this particular month. This was their month "off". As far as I know she's not checking CP, but will encourage it, as well as OPK use. Hopefully next month will be more obvious.

[karmab]

for sure. a bunch of internet cheapies opks would offer a lot of insight i think, if she has another chart as difficult to read as this one. then she can take 2-3/day starting 3-4 days before she thinks she might be o'ing, and be sure not to miss it. and the cp will help too. i wish her lots of luck with the lp issue, i hope it turns out to be nothing at all, but if not, i've got it too, and between b6 and a small dose of prometrium, things have straightened out really nicely.

[DoulaLMT]

Anyone else? I am still leaning towards CD 11 myself, but just want more opinions.

[finnegansmom]

I agree with CD13, mostly because that is how my charts tend to look. My temps slowly rise a few days before O then rise more.

[suzywan]

I'm going with CD11. CM identification can be so tricky. How short are her cycles? Does she have any indication of an LPD - lots of LP spotting, for instance? If not, I would suspect that she Os earlier and that's why her cycles are short. However, more charts will make things clearer.

[DoulaLMT]

Thanks ladies
This is her first month charting. Her cycles are generally short - 21-24 days and so this is her first attempt at figuring out exactly what's going on, how long her LP is, etc. She generally does have some spotting prior to AF but hasn't this month yet. This was their month "off" from trying, so she's not likely pregnant.

[karmab]

i would just suggest that she get some ic's for next month and start opks cd8

[Tara2]

I'm gonna go with CD11 on this one.

Reason one: according to FAM fertility guidelines the temp rule states that the post O rise is indicated with the first temp at least .2 above the previous six temps. Assuming temps continue a sustained rise after that, that first rise is counted as the first day of LP. Your friend's chart meets this guideline.

Reason two: It is also normal, and fairly common to have temps rise .2-.3 degrees initially before ranging higher. It's always been my pattern, and I'm not the only one. I'd say the first shift is clear; to reiterate: it's ok and usual for temps to gradually rise like that.

True the cm doesn't corroborate as much, but personally I have also had a slow dry up at times, and FF states that you can have fertile CF before, during and after O. Then too, there is a certain ambiguity with CF that is sometimes hard to tell, especially if there is any seminal residue on those days. (Don't know if that's the case here.) Though O most commonly occurs on the peak day or the day after, it's not for sure. Since the temp rise was clear, I'd go with it.

[DoulaLMT]

Tara, I've always used FAM rules, so that's why I'm going with CD 11 too. And she said the wet CM on CD 13 was only a TINY bit and only early in the morning. She almost didn't chart it. So....Until next month we'll go with that