School deleaying - "redshirting". - Page 3

[peaceful_mama]

I am happy to have DS with a 10/8 b-day with a 9/1 cutoff. I actually had at least one person pushing me to try to get him in last year...however, i knew this would not be an option in my district, as my neighbor whose child was ONE DAY past the cutoff had to wait.

True, DS could read last year. But socially, and a little bit on the attention-to-teacher-directed-activity, he just was not ready. He has come MILES in that dept. in the last 9 months, and I am very glad that he had that time, and that the decision ultimately wasn't even mine to make. He *needed* that time.

I was also one who just missed the cutoff, and could read. (9/17 b-day same cutoff) The only time I recall it making any difference is that I sat in the back of the room reading chapter books in the first grade, because I could....while everyone else was learning how to read.
Socially and everything though, I was in the right place. And there were others with b-days like mine, so I wasn't *way* older. (other 'red-shirted' kids, other near-cutoff b-days)

I would think the only way it would make a major difference as to being the "oldest" or the "youngest" is if you red-shirted a child whose birthday was *way before* the cutoff and then enrolled them in K when they were "mandatory school age" of say, 6, like most places are. Or you pushed for a child with a b-day a month or more past the cutoff to get in...if you can even do that.

[oiseau]

My fiance and I have talked about this subject a lot, even though we don't have kids yet.
I have an early Aug birthday, so I started school about 3 weeks after my 5th birthday. I had been in a pre-school like setting since the age of 2 (group speech therapy classes, then Pre-K at 4) and I was prefectly ready to go to K. I was always one of the youngest in my class, but I always did fine. I was in the gifted/honors program from 3rd grade and academically, I actually could have been challenged more. I was always emotionally/socially awkward, but I don't think anything would have changed that.
My brother has a mid-Nov. birthday with a Sep 30 cutoff, so he started K at 5yrs 9mo. He didn't attend pre-school for as long as I did though. His grade was always a perfect fit too. He had a lot more friends and was much more popular than I was. He always did well academically, though he wasn't in the gifted program. As an adult (he's 25 now), he is more successful than me career-wise and has tons of friends. I think he would have struggled a bit more if my parents had pushed for him to start at 4yrs 9mo, especially considering our parents got divorced shortly after that and he struggled emotionally with that.

My fiance and his brother are just over 12mo apart in age and have late Nov. and early Dec. birthdays. I think the cutoff in their district must have been Nov 30, so my fiance started school at 4y9mo and his brother started at 5yrs10mo. They are both gifted and were both academically ready to start K before the age of 4, but emotionally/socially, my fiance was nowhere near ready. It really hurt him socially and he cried at school for years. He was the tiniest kid and really still looked like a baby at 4 and he was picked on through HS. I honestly believe that a lot of the struggles he still has today are due to him starting school before he was ready. If he'd had that extra year to mature, he would have been much more able to stand up for himself and cope with the social aspect of school. His brother has always had many more friends (well, his brother has friends. my fiance really has no close friends of his own and never really has) and is much more confident about himself.

Like most everyone else has posted, I think it really just depends on the individual child. If we have kids with questionable birthdays, I think we'd probably lean towards holding them back a year unless I thought they were really ready. I'm amazed at how late some of the cutoff dates mentioned are though. I would think a Sep. 30 cutoff would make the most sense because it seems like once you push it to Nov or Jan., you end up with classes of kids with 2 years difference in age.

OP-good luck making your decision. Like everyone has said, trust your mama gut...you know your DD best.

[Grace and Granola]

Originally Posted by p1gg1e

The earliest age they accept your child isnt THE age they HAVE to go. This term "red shirting" bothers me.

The law in my state says that they have to be in school by age 6 ( that fall) and first grade. I'm following the law. Just because I COULD have put my child in school does not mean that its in her best interest.

ODD is much more prepared and knows quite a bit of what she needs , was not pushed and it was mostly self directed. She would have been 5 for a month before starting last year and was no where ear ready.

So far no regrets! HTH

ETA: I kinda compare this term to breastfeeding age guidelines when someone says nurse "up to one year" and reads it "only one year".

ITA with this.

I'm not sure if this is true in all states, but I am in Missouri, and technically, Kindergarten is optional. Now, no one is going to just come out and tell you that. But, you can even look at homeschooling guidelines in your state to help you out. Here, it is age 7 where a child must be in school or decidedly homeschooled. So, if I were in the OP's shoes, I might keep my kid back the kindy year and "homeschool" for kindergarten. Then next year, based on her mother's assessment of readiness, she can either go into kindy or first grade.

The school cutoff rules are a good part of the reason why I decided to homeschool. My ds's bday is aug 20th and we have an aug 1st cutoff. This child started reading at age 3, yet he is not allowed to begin kindy until after 3 years of preschool (our choice, just sayin') at age 6. The rules irritate me. There should be some discretion based on each individual child!

[mom2ponygirl]

A good friend sent one daughter a year early to K and the second daughter a year late. Both were very bright girls, but she sent them when she felt they were emotionally ready.

Another friend held her daughter back, and when she was in high school she was very upset with being a year older. Her mom arranged for some correspondence courses over the summer and she 'caught' up the year in high school.

I was the youngest in my grade and wished I could have skipped a grade by high school since I always hung out with older kids anyway.

Personally I don't think the problem is with parents sending kids a year late (or a year early). The problem is the rigid age/grade lock step of the school system that makes entrance to K a permanent decision. If there were more fluid movement in later grades, you could start them when they are ready and move them freely later as needed!

[BetsyNY]

Originally Posted by mom2ponygirl

Personally I don't think the problem is with parents sending kids a year late (or a year early). The problem is the rigid age/grade lock step of the school system that makes entrance to K a permanent decision. If there were more fluid movement in later grades, you could start them when they are ready and move them freely later as needed!

This, 100%.

We're currently grappling with this issue...my twins have a late Nov. birthday and were born very early (shouldn't have been born until FEBRUARY! ) and yet all this still applies to them. Wouldn't be an issue at all except they one has ASD and the other ADHD, and they need services. Because the district sees them as kindergarten aged, into K they go even though it makes zero sense.

I'm sad and angry about it.

[Mizelenius]

Depends on the school. If it's a school which uses developmentally appropriate practices, this should not be an issue:

http://users.stargate.net/~cokids/dapQnA.html

(See first Q/A)

[mom2ponygirl]

Originally Posted by Mizelenius

Depends on the school. If it's a school which uses developmentally appropriate practices, this should not be an issue:

http://users.stargate.net/~cokids/dapQnA.html

(See first Q/A)

From the site: " If the environment and curriculum are developmentally appropriate, no child who is age appropriate is developmentally inappropriate. By definition, a developmentally appropriate setting meets the needs of all children."

I think they underestimate the developmental differences possible in a 12 month time span. I agree with the stated goals of this site, but flexible age grouping would make the goals much easier to obtain.

For example, when my daughter was official K age she was reading books like The Hobbit, doing multi-digit multiplication, and comparing the themes of various stories, greek mythologies, etc. Sure, they could have given her some individual work to do off in the corner by herself, but where would her community be? Where are the kids that could talk about some of the same things she does and wouldn't look at her like she was some alien? With older kids, she'd have a better chance of sharing some of what interests her and understanding what interests them.

With flexible and fluid age/grade placements, some of the kids who didn't need to move ahead in K could move ahead a few years later when they did need it. As the kids get older and the skill spread decreases, a kid like mine could de-accelerate to get more time with kids closer to her age while still keeping their academics progressing. Just a thought.....

[Heavenly]

I am a big believer in NOT holding kids back. In my province the cut-off is December 31. My middle child is a November birthday so she is pretty much the youngest in the class. She'll be 7 years old for over 2 months of 3rd grade in the coming school year. She has done perfectly well and in fact would have been at a disadvantage if we had held her back. My other two kids are January birthdays so they are the oldest in the class. In many ways that is not a good thing because my son feels out of place being 9 and in 3rd grade. I know every city/state/province is different but I just can't get behind holding a child back and having them be 6 in kindergarten.

[Teensy]

I thought this New York Times article about redshirting was interesting.

[Mizelenius]

Originally Posted by mom2ponygirl

From the site: " If the environment and curriculum are developmentally appropriate, no child who is age appropriate is developmentally inappropriate. By definition, a developmentally appropriate setting meets the needs of all children."

I think they underestimate the developmental differences possible in a 12 month time span. I agree with the stated goals of this site, but flexible age grouping would make the goals much easier to obtain.

For example, when my daughter was official K age she was reading books like The Hobbit, doing multi-digit multiplication, and comparing the themes of various stories, greek mythologies, etc. Sure, they could have given her some individual work to do off in the corner by herself, but where would her community be? Where are the kids that could talk about some of the same things she does and wouldn't look at her like she was some alien? With older kids, she'd have a better chance of sharing some of what interests her and understanding what interests them.

With flexible and fluid age/grade placements, some of the kids who didn't need to move ahead in K could move ahead a few years later when they did need it. As the kids get older and the skill spread decreases, a kid like mine could de-accelerate to get more time with kids closer to her age while still keeping their academics progressing. Just a thought.....

I agree with flexible/fluid age and grade placements, but to me, DAP would address this. I don't think (ultimately) a school which truly embraced DAP would say, "Your child is 'too' exceptional; she or he will simply have to go along with the crowd." Granted, a school like that is hard to find!

In the example of your DD . . .with the exception of math, my daughter could do those same things at that age. HOWEVER, she also liked to act like a cat, make things out of paper, start "nature clubs" with her friends, etc. While she had certain skills and interests that were beyond the typical development of her peers, she also definitely acted her age in many ways. That's why Kindergarten worked for her to a certain extent, since the play/exploration/open-ended aspect was a benefit to her.

[BCFD]

I didn't get an opportunity to read all the posts, but wanted to contribute my story. My DD started a Montessori charter kindy when she was 4 years 9 months. Her bday is about 2 weeks before the cutoff date. Since she spent 2 years in a Montessori preschool, academically we felt she was ready. Socially, we were iffy, but thought she'd grow into her own.

I go back and forth on wishing we would have waited another year until she was almost 6, because she has had/semi-still having maturity issues. Luckily, the teachers understand she is the youngest in the class and realize that she is developmentally appropriate. As for academics, she was already reading CVC words and BOB books when she started kindy. She is now reading and using the moveable alphabet to spell words like picnic and silent e words!! She is also doing dynamic addition with thousands (carrying over numbers). So, I felt that if we would have held her back another year that she may have been completely bored and not feeling challenged. Then I go back to thinking maybe we should have held her back because this DD in particular is very stubborn and says "It's too hard" and "I can't do it" and "It will take too long". We have the opportunity to have her repeat Kindy, but she is so looking forward to 1st grade and I do think that academically she will be fine. But she will probably always be the youngest one in her class, which worries me just a tad.

My middle DD will be 4 years 10 months and is totally motivated, hella long attention span, and already begging to do the hundred board every day!! She was even watching her sister doing dynamic addition with the stamp game and BEGGED me to show her how to do it. We have to do a few things before we get to that point, but she and her sister are complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

I really think that you need to make that decision based on YOUR child. Who cares what anybody else says?

[pigpokey]

I have not read all the responses, but I firmly believe that you delay any major decisions until you have to make them if that will give you more information.

This is a no-brainer. If you think she's not going to benefit from K this fall, then register her as home schooling for K. This delays the decision another year. Then in the summer of 2011 you can decide whether you want her to enter K, 1st, or none of the above.

[ocelotmom]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

My birthday is August 17 and so this is just based on my personal experience. It was really hard always being the youngest one in my class. I always felt a beat behind, socially, and I never really felt like I fit in. I was often friends either with people younger or older than me, but rarely had friends in my own age group.

Heh, my birthday is August 19th. I started out as one of the youngest, but was held back a year in 1st grade (this was partially due to redshirting being common in my neighborhood at the time, and therefore an exaggerated age difference with my classmates) and was therefore one of the oldest through most of school.

I had the exact same experience as you describe. I suspect those on the edges are prone to having a harder time, regardless of which direction it is.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by bugginsmom

You know, I am always curious why people don't get flack for sending their children early...to me that[I is something to think about.

They do...

But really, why should either side "get flack"? It's a personal parenting decision, and it's no better to put down those who choose to send their kids when eligible than it is to put down those who choose to wait a year. I have fairly strong opinions on the subject, and am more direct when sharing them online, but to the many many parents I've met IRL who have waited a year, all I've said is a pleasant, "Oh, okay. It can be such a tough decision, huh?" because I know how much thought we put into our decision, and I'm sure they put the same amount of thought into theirs. I've never had a conversation feel competitive or unfriendly when I've discussed it with parents who made a different choice then we did.

[Heavenly]

Personally I am really against redshirting in most cases. My middle child is a November birthday with a December 31 cutoff. She has been the youngest in her class all along but has had no problems with it. I think when given the opportunity most children will rise to the challenge. She is actually advanced and may be skipping a grade so she would be almost 2 years younger than some of her classmates but she's fine with it. My oldest is a January birthday and he is always the oldest in his class and he doesn't like it. People have teased him for being 9 and in 3rd grade (last year) even though with a January birthday he didn't have a choice. I think the whole system would jus flow better if kids enter in the year they qualify for - unless there are some extenuating circumstances that suggest otherwise. Simply having a parent who is nervous is not a good excuse to hold them back IMHO.

[onemoremom]

I might be a little late to jump in, but I'll tell you what I did with my Dec. B-day son who was, IMO, not ready (his dad and I split up, there were moves, etc..very emotional changes at the time) for school the first year he qualified age-wise for kindergarten. He was homeschooled that year (very informal....it was better emotionally for him, and schedule-wise within the family it just worked much better). But I wouldn't call it redshirting, because I didn't put him into kindergarten, he simply went directly into 1st grade. He is a very average age for his class and was totally ready and is very happy and doing great. He just didn't attend kindergarten with his peers last year.

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

I have stumble upon some article about delaying schooling and it just made my jaw to drop.

Do you have links? I didn't send my dd to school until she was six and I'm always questioning myself, so I'd love some validation.

Originally Posted by BellaClaudia

If you did dealy what did you tell everyone around you..

Everybody is asking about my LO age and then ..oh so she is going to school in the fall?..

and what do I answer? what do you answer? or what did you answer..

I said "no, we're going to wait until next year." Sometimes I paraphrased L.M. Montgomery to them. In one of her books is a line, something like "no child should be penned up within the walls of a school until at least the age of 7" and I've always agreed with that.

was your child shy being older in the class or was he or she subject to some radiculing because of that?

My dd has always been one of the most popular kids in her class.

How people in general react to this? Do they feel about peopel who do it as weirdos?

My mother occasionally makes comments like "she'll always be a year behind" and that makes me really mad. No, she will NOT be a year behind. She will be neither a year ahead nor a year behind. She will be exactly where she is supposed to be, just like the rest of her classmates. She didn't start school "late." She started school at a perfectly appropriate age.

Originally Posted by p1gg1e

The earliest age they accept your child isnt THE age they HAVE to go.

: What it reminds me of is people who think you HAVE to drive 55 mph even though it's the MAXIMUM.

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Girls mature earlier than boys, and deciding to hold a girl back *could* make the difficult adolesent years even more difficult.

The opposite will be true for my daughter if she takes after me. I didn't get my period until I was 14 and in high school. I was the only girl in 8th grade with a completely flat chest.

[JessBB]

Ok, I'm just going to put this out there. I think redshirting is elitist. Most people don't have the money to either stay home with their children or keep them in day care or preschool an extra year. IMO the performance gap in American schools is already so egregious,why make it worse? Most kids I know who've started late would have probably done fine, but their parents wanted them to be the class stars, academically and / or athletically. IDK, it just rubs me the wrong way.

[junipermuse]

Originally Posted by JessBB

Ok, I'm just going to put this out there. I think redshirting is elitist. Most people don't have the money to either stay home with their children or keep them in day care or preschool an extra year. IMO the performance gap in American schools is already so egregious,why make it worse? Most kids I know who've started late would have probably done fine, but their parents wanted them to be the class stars, academically and / or athletically. IDK, it just rubs me the wrong way.

I think this is very true. It is definitely my concern and the reason for my general distaste for redshirting. However it isn't to say that there aren't specific individual children who absolutely need another year to mature. But it's becoming way so common it does unfairly affect children who's parents have less economic resources.

[newbymom05]

Originally Posted by junipermuse

I think this is very true. It is definitely my concern and the reason for my general distaste for redshirting. However it isn't to say that there aren't specific individual children who absolutely need another year to mature. But it's becoming way so common it does unfairly affect children who's parents have less economic resources.

It affects the whole class, IMO. My husband and I do have the resources to hold our June b'day son back, but guess what? He's 5, and he's ready and able to be successful in school. It bugs me that he's in a class w/ 6 y/os that have already had a year of kindergarten. That's my big issue. If you think your kid isn't ready, ok, but to put him/her in a private kindy for a year and then make him/her repeat it--WTH? My DH thought we should ask the principal to have a class just of the 6 y/os who've had a year of MDO/private school, just of the 5 y/o's. Yeah, that's supposed to be kindy and 1st.