Evening Fussiness

[jsh7809]

Okay... our DD is just 8 days old but the past few nights have been a big challenge. She is getting big time fussy starting right around sunset and going to 10 or 11pm when she finally falls asleep. I'm trying to be patient, because it's only just started, and I'm praying it's not colic since she does seem comforted by breastfeeding. But she gets full and a few minutes after she's off the boob, the wailing starts.
We are new parents and I'm really struggling to keep perspective and enjoy the nice yummy newborn time. But this new evening fussiness combined with my swinging hormones, healing body, shifting priorities and demands, and breastfeeding between every hour and every 15 minutes throughout the day (not to mention sopping wet nursing pads) is really starting to burn me out FAST. I know some people have things like nursing and sleeping schedules, or the ability to put their babies down for a nap in the other room. I'm not even looking for that, just advice on getting us and her through the evenings.
Because we are getting really stressed out after even a short jag of crying, and DH can't seem to do anything to comfort her. But then if I take her and don't breastfeed her (I've been trying to stave her off to once an hour at least), she gets even more upset, since the girl can smell it all over my bra and shirt!
Any help is appreciated. We are already struggling.

[sew_crafty_girl]

This started for us at day 13. My friend and health nurse just commented on my facebook how most babies, even "good ones" like ours and hers all go through this evening fussiness which usually peaks at 6 wks and resolves by 3mos. As I post this my DH is walking with Anna and talking to her sweetly. Thznkfully the crying isn't relentless.

We have found there us lots of gas and poops when she's fussy too. Tried gripe water tonight but I don't know if that's been the magic answer yet.

[jenfl]

Yup. We get the evening fussies, too.

It's nothing you're doing wrong. There may well be no way to stop it. It's just something she'll work through over the next few weeks/months.

Try every crazy thing you can think of. Sprout fusses from 5-6pm to 8-9pm. We can't totally stop it, but we can get a break by walking him outside. Somehow, DH discovered that even simply stepping outside calms him down. So now DH walks the yard with him for 10-15 minutes when we can't stand the fussing anymore. Then it's back in to nurse, fuss, repeat.

Hang in there, realize it won't last forever and that it's not a sign that you're doing anything wrong.

[justamama]

Dd1 was really colicky. One thing that helped was DH walking outside with her.

Also, if the crying has you at the end of your rope...walk away. It isn't CIO if baby is left for 5-10 mins while you regroup and gain back some sanity. A sane, collected parent can better address baby's needs than a frazzled one.

[rhiOrion]

we have evening fussiness here too. and some nights, like tonight, we have middle of the night 4 hour fussiness. ugh.

and now dh has the stomach bug.

parental burnout in 3...2...

[jsh7809]

It helps knowing everyone goes through this phase. But I am losing it a bit. I feel like our sweet, gentle, cooing newborn girl has been replaced with a distraught, screaming stranger out of nowhere. She's only 8 days old! Isn't this early for so much fuss?
I am thinking her stomach is bothering her, because the past few nights after the fussing starts, she's spit up the entire contents of her stomach (a LOT) at least once. It sucks. Plus she hasn't pooped for most of the night. I am going to try cutting out dairy to see if that helps - but how long do potential irritants take to reach breastmilk? I also ate chili and spicy cornbread, but that was something I ate in the middle of the already-started fussing, so I doubt that was it (though it may not have helped things!) and anyway I barely got in 3 bites because of all the crying.
Last night/ tonight (it's 4am) was really, really hard. She cried from 7pm to 11 and I can't sleep now out of stress and overwhelm. She's asleep but seems to be uncomfortable even in her sleep, and she's been doing the startle reflex a LOT more often in the past day or so, even when I am holding her tightly and nothing startling is happening.
I know it's normal to cry and fuss, and I am constantly reminding myself and DH that that is part of a baby's life. But he is completely unable to calm her, I barely can myself (and almost solely with the boob) and the crying escalated to screaming, painful sounding yelps when we were checking her diaper at one point. So so hard.
I am terrified of colic. But it sounds like you ladies are saying every baby goes through this to some extent? I'm trying not to jump the gun with my worries. But I just feel like I don't recognize this part of her, and simultaneously frustrated with her and feeling protective and defensive of her, but unable to help her.
I'm trying not to fall apart and it's only been a few days! Not sure who we can turn to for help. And maybe I am making a bigger deal out of it than I should be? I just don't know where to start

[MaterPrimaePuellae]

We're dealing with this, too, and we had the same experience w/ DD.

For us, the fussiness started around 2 weeks, and it usually lasts from about 6 pm to 8 or 9 when he falls asleep. One day in the past week he has not had the fussy period, and WOW did I rack my brain trying to find out what I did differently that day! as far as I can tell, it was a totally normal day.

The things that help me:
* Realizing that it's not something I'm doing wrong or even necessarily something I can fix
* Remembering that babies cry. I think it's scary sometimes to go from cooing, happy newborn to screaming, red-faced baby because a part of us is panicking that something is wrong. Almost everyone I know has babies who go through this.
*gripe water does seem to offer some temporary relief
*Happiest Baby on the Block stuff, especially the loud shushing sound-- DS had a really bad night a few nights ago; I went into the kitchen, turned down the lights, held him tightly and made that sound. He was asleep within five minutes.


Any theories as to why babies do this?

[jenfl]

I'm so sorry, Jess. I was right where you are now with DD, and my memories of those feelings of helplessness are flooding back.

It's the hardest thing in the world to hear your baby cry for those first few weeks/months, and not know how to fix it. You've still got crazy hormones running around, which make it all the worse.

I think she's hitting the fussies at the normal time. 1-2 weeks is when I starting thinking that DS wasn't the quiet, easy baby I'd hoped at first he was -- and thought I deserved after DD!

Here's my suggestions, take what you can use and leave the rest.

- Keep a log of her crying. It'll help you look at the amount of time she's fussing more objectively to see if it's in the "normal" range.

- Watch for signs of reflux, because that's a common cause of lots of crying and discomfort. The spitting up can be one, but look for others. For instance, my DD couldn't be laid on her back for even an instant without screaming in pain. If you think it's reflux-y, try keeping her upright even in her sleep and see if it helps.

- Look into "Happiest Baby on the Block". It really does help.

- Dairy MIGHT be a problem, but remember that most babies don't need their mom to restrict their diet. How long it takes to get out of your system depends on how sensitive a baby is. Some babies can tolerate the mom eating trace dairy and will feel better soon after mom stops milk/ice cream, some babies can't take any dairy in mom's milk and will take weeks to stop reacting.

- Watch yourself for PPD. I hear in your post the exact things I started feeling when I got hit, but I couldn't recognize it. If you even THINK you might be feeling a trace of it, take some Fish Oil. It can't hurt, it really might help.

- And come back here and talk to us. It helps so much to have some place to talk it out.

[jenfl]

One more thing that you guys might already know. Does your DH know the signs of hungry-baby vs fussy-baby? Because he can try all the magic, dad-calming tricks and it won't help a thing is she's hungry. And if she's not hungry, just fussy, it can be good to let them figure a calming routine out on their own.

For us with both DD and DS, the first hunger sign is sticking out the tongue repeatedly and chewing on hands. Next comes the head bob -- if you've got her upright on your shoulder, she'll peck around, looking for a latch. There's also the face-latch (cheek or chin in most cases for us) and, of course, the breast dive. After all those comes the hunger cry.

[jsh7809]

ok, little teeny bit calmer now, but not much. i didnt really sleep because DD spent the whole night not really awake but not sound asleep either - kinda muttering and thrashing around. she still hasnt popped although DH swears it hasnt been as long as i think. i am nursing so constantly that she drifts off after about five minutes - those epic 40 minute feeds every few hours have been gone for days.
Ugh. I know that sleep deprivation is not going to help things, but I feel unable to relax tonight / this morning because of my worries and the stress. I am definitely watching for PPD but so far think it's within the normal realm of adjustment and scariness for myself with such a huge lifestyle change, hormones, and so on. I just don't know where to start, but I'm trying to take each day (or hour) as it comes...
I have read Happiest Baby on the Block and the magic combo of Ss does seem to help - but not much, and not for long. And DH actually has the opposite problem, jenfl - anytime she's fussy at all, he thinks she needs to nurse. We both do, and since it does seem to calm her down, I just end up going for it again and again.
I do take Fish oil already, so that's good as a preventive.
She's not a very good burper - or maybe it's our technique - so I wonder if that could be part of it.
I am having so much trouble getting past this feeling of "who are you? What happened to you?". I didn't expect it to be perfect (and I sort of figured we were jinxing ourselves with this "she's so easy" b.s.) but I just feel like we aren't able to offer her much relief at all for hours when she gets like this... I feel so incompetent and DH is even worse.

[ivymae]

I've never had a baby that didn't turn into a demon baby around dinner time. Poor DH gets home from work, baby starts screaming, the big girls need dinner, a bath, bedtime stories, and all i can do is walk in circles, doing the diaper, boob, burping circle. She's 3 weeks now, and after i'm sure she can't be hungry, i put her in the moby and drink a glass of wine. A good friend of mine puts in ear plugs (while holding her screaming baby) because it takes the edge off and keeps her blood pressure from rising and getting that "I'm going to explode" feeling. And like Denise, many times I have put a screaming baby (toddler/preschooler) in a safe place and walked away to give myself a chance to calm down. There are breathing exercises that also help keep my cool, though it can still be SO overwhelming sometimes.

[jolesh]

we get 3am fussiness. where we go through feeding, peeing, pooing, feeding, peeing etc over and over for 2 or 3 hours. DH is starting to go nuts because i have to wake him to change diapers (still can't move around too quick post CS) and it seems like every time he nods off in this period of the night i am jostling him awake again. if it isn't a wet or dirty dipe then it is gas. and then DS wants to start all over by feeding some more.. though he isn't a screamer but he is definitely making his presence known. i am TIRED! gripe water worked magic with DD, but DS doesn't seem to be gassy enough for it.. he is generally a good sleeper otherwise - i swear he is only awake about 20 min a day or something (though that will change soon enough).

anyway just my experience to add. i am going back to bed!

[SuzieQ3417]

Just wanted to offer a

I think the evening crying/screaming is incredibly common in newborns - maybe it has to do with just being completely overwhelmed by all the new experiences by the end of the day?

I know it's tough dealing with a red-faced screaming baby, especially when nothing you do seems to help. I also do the 5 S's from Happiest Baby on the Block, and I've found that I have to "shhh" a lot louder than you think - i.e. as loud as the baby is screaming, and then tone it down as they start to settle down.

I would also reiterate what previous posters have said - remember that babies do cry, that it's not necessarily something you are or aren't doing, and that it's ok to set her down for a few minutes to compose yourself. It's hard to act completely rationally when sleep deprived, hormone-crazed, and getting screamed at. Maybe when she hits that fussy time you can alternate with your husband on calming the baby down - take shifts of 15 minutes or something, while the other person can leave the room to calm themselves down.

I wouldn't cut out dairy just yet, because it probably has nothing to do with a food intolerance (like jen said, they're rare). My baby was super fussy and gassy a few weeks ago, and already it seems to be getting better without any changes in my diet. What we found helpful was laying him on his back and bringing his knees into his chest - you'd be amazed how quickly this relieves gas or gets him to poop. The downside is that (at least for my baby) it doesn't work as well when he's screaming, but works best when he's calm and his abdomen is relaxed. We've started adding it to our routine after feedings when he's nice and mellow (feed on one breast, put his knees to his chest for a minute or so which produces gas about 75% of the time, feed on other breast to calm down again). And FWIW, our baby won't burp either - we've gotten maybe 2-3 burps out of him since he was born. I still try, but it doesn't seem to make a difference (though he does like getting patted on the back and will often fall asleep while I do this...haha).

ETA - we've started doing "tummy time" which also seems to be working wonders for gas relief - anything that puts gentle pressure on their abdomen seems to make them feel better.

[rhiOrion]

JSH- do we have the same baby? because I think we're having the exact same issues, except that my dd seems to also be fussy for a few hours in the middle of the night every few nights. And I think "fussy" is such an understatement. Demon spawn screaming infant.

I'm glad to hear some of you say that although it may be a momma food thing that it's probably not. I feel like on MDC the second your kid cries everyone usually jumps in saying to do a full elimination diet. And I would if I thought I really needed too, but honestly I don't know what I'd eat. Everything I eat is part of the elimination diet. And I really don't think her issues are particularly diet related.

It all seems so random. I think that's one frustrating thing. There seems to be no way to tell what kind of night I'm going to have. Therefore I have no idea how hard to try to stock up on sleep during the day. And I should have been sleeping for the last hour or so, but how was I supposed to know she'd actually stay asleep!??

[Knitting Mama]

I don't have much to add to the advice you've already gotten, but I have found that as well as burping Cecilia (which definitely took work to learn; she does best sitting up with my hand cupping her neck in the front, and my other hand rubbing quite firmly from bottom to top rather than patting) I have to "fart" her as well-- we go to the changing table, and I massage her belly in clockwise circles, then I bring her feet up so that her knees bend and go into her belly and then bring them down straight out. Repeating that a few times almost always ends with a fart (or several) and she seems so much happier after.

As far as poop goes, my doctor and my sister both told me that breast milk is so efficient for many babies that they don't actually poop all that often, certainly not the 4 times a day you read about. Constipation in exclusively breastfed babies is about the consistency of the poop and not about how often it comes.

[GreenTeaGinger61]

Trust me you would know colic. It's kind of like what everyone said about labor. Once it hits you have no doubt My son had colic for two months, and there was never ever a moment of doubt as to what was happening. He wouldn't nurse and only stopped SCREAMING to catch his breath. It was sheer hell.

That said all my babies have fussy periods where very little will calm them. I find it different because a, they'll usually nurse and b, they are crying not screaming. I've always wondered if it's just adjustment. Kind of like "wow hey I'm here on earth not in womb. This kind of sucks!"

I can't really add to the great advice you've been given. We call the manual farting moves "baby pump" and we've done it with all three. Works wonders. And of course make sure you pat firmly when burping. It also sounds like you have a lot of milk and the letdown may be very fast causing her to take in air. That happened with my first two. Eventually they got used to it and we had less problems. I found that if I felt overfill, pumping just a little beforehand helped the rush.

Also I had to make my dh deal with our first. And I had to not hover, and not grab the baby away if baby did not crying. It was too easy for both of us to just let me deal with screaming baby when dh felt helpless. Yes the baby is crying but I don't consider it CIO when someone is holding and responding to the cry. Your dh has to gain confidence in his ability to comfort and to understand that it doesn't take a pair of boobs to provide that comfort. I had to learn that dh is capable of doing this without me stepping in.

((((hugs))) and it really does get easier. I always joke it's a good thing dd2 was an accident because after ds I would never have had another baby. And if it's any consolation my colicy little baby grew into a total sweet, mellow toddler and boy

[ivymae]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaGinger61

Also I had to make my dh deal with our first. And I had to not hover, and not grab the baby away if baby did not crying. It was too easy for both of us to just let me deal with screaming baby when dh felt helpless. Yes the baby is crying but I don't consider it CIO when someone is holding and responding to the cry. Your dh has to gain confidence in his ability to comfort and to understand that it doesn't take a pair of boobs to provide that comfort. I had to learn that dh is capable of doing this without me stepping in.

This is something I still struggle with. I have had to reallly work on letting DH parent in his own way, without me stepping in and saying "Well I do it this way.." and undermining both his confidence and his authority with the kids. If you can get this down when the kids are newborns, you are lightyears ahead of me.

To get the farts out, we do "toes to the nose". You don't actually have to fold them up (though DD2 loved to be folded in half and held that way, which is probably why she wanted to be breech), but just hold their little feet and aim for their nose, slowly curling them and uncurling them.

Be careful with your calming attempts that you are not overstimulating them. Choose to do a bath OR a belly rub, but not both at once. Keep the lights low, don't play music AND do the SHHHHH, etc. I think the end of the day demon baby can sometimes just be a super overstimulated baby, being DONE with today. For us, it's also a very busy time of day (daddy home, dinner, baths, bedtime, etc) so removing myself from the activity (even though it makes me crazy to feel so cut off) can help her calm down.

Also, keep an eye out in the hour before they usually 'turn', and watch for sleepy signs. I know i am guilty of thinking "If she just stays up for an hour more, I can get the girls fed, and then I can go to sleep with her. if she falls asleep now she'll be up just when i want to crash", but that really doesn't do anyone any good.

[Carley]

Originally Posted by rhiOrion

I'm glad to hear some of you say that although it may be a momma food thing that it's probably not. I feel like on MDC the second your kid cries everyone usually jumps in saying to do a full elimination diet. And I would if I thought I really needed too, but honestly I don't know what I'd eat. Everything I eat is part of the elimination diet. And I really don't think her issues are particularly diet related.

Trust your gut (har har). I did the full elimination diet with DD1 & it was a blow. It did absolutely nothing & meanwhile turned my sanity even further down the spiral.

This should make you feel better: http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns...nsitivity.html

DD2 has the normal evening fussiness (aka demon spawn) & spuratic daytime fussiness, though ONLY when we're at home & I'd like to relax. When we're out & about she's just fine :eyeroll

Walking in the sling only helps when we're outside (thank God I have Spring babies!), but one position that seems magic for DD2 sometimes is the "sack of potatos" hold - holding her with her belly in the crook of my arm while I walk around.

I also got a px for her of a PPI (Prilosec) around week 2 after she was doing the typical GERD back arching etc. http://www.childrenshospital.org/vie...n_infants.html

It doesn't help with spitup, but it DOES help with the acid that causes the burning. It also doesn't help with normal fussiness or her "Happy Hour."

[justamama]

Just adding to what's been mentioned already.

Don't freak about the not pooping. I got super scared with dd1. She had jaundice and wasn't pooping at all the first few days once meconium passed. I was scared and the nurses with the vna kept throwing the 4x/day at me. Turns out, she was a once every TWELVE days baby. She didn't go often but boy was it a lot!

Tummy pressure- a great trick for burping a baby who needs tummy pressure; lay them over your knee and pat their back, or sitting in your lap with a hand putting pressure on their tummy while you lean them forward then back to sitting. A sock with flax seed and some dried peppermint, lavender, and chammomile will help with tummy pressure while lying down. The herbs are optional, but flax is better than rice or corn because it distributes heat evenly. Heat it in microwave for about 45 seconds.

Have you tried swaddling at bedtime? You mentioned her thrashing in her sleep. When I know LuLu isn't hungry, I swaddle her, give her a binkie, and try either walking/patting, the swing, or her laying on her tummy. All of my girls were tummy sleepers. With us co-sleeping, this meant they were on my chest, so I was comfortable with them in that position.

Does she pull off the breast when you letdown? I have an overactive letdown, so LuLu pulls off and winds up covered in milk until she can handle the flow. Try taking her off the breast at letdown, putting her back on after the initial gush. It can help her take in less air, which will help the tummy issues.

[Carley]

Originally Posted by ivymae

I've never had a baby that didn't turn into a demon baby around dinner time. Poor DH gets home from work, baby starts screaming, the big girls need dinner, a bath, bedtime stories, and all i can do is walk in circles, doing the diaper, boob, burping circle. She's 3 weeks now, and after i'm sure she can't be hungry, i put her in the moby and drink a glass of wine. A good friend of mine puts in ear plugs (while holding her screaming baby) because it takes the edge off and keeps her blood pressure from rising and getting that "I'm going to explode" feeling. And like Denise, many times I have put a screaming baby (toddler/preschooler) in a safe place and walked away to give myself a chance to calm down. There are breathing exercises that also help keep my cool, though it can still be SO overwhelming sometimes.

I take "Happy Hour" literally too, and I recommend it to anyone dealing with it. A glass of wine totally helps. There's only so much we can do to "make" our babies stop fussing... there's only one way they can communicate, and unfortunately it's totally stressful unless this Mommy's medicated

I started pumping right away this time & I'm fortunate DD1 & DD2 have easily taken a bottle from DH (nipple confusion my arse... we introduced the bottle & the paci right away this time & it's only helped me!). This especially helps on really crazy days. DH stays with the kiddos while I go have a glass of wine with my awesome neighbor, a veteran mother of 3 kiddos the youngest being 8, or go to a yoga class. Mmmm.