Bullying - Page 2

[raksmama]

I am so sorry your boy is having to go through this!
I was just wondering what the outcome of the meeting went with the principal was. Were they able to help? Did the situation get worse?
I hope not!

Originally Posted by LukesMum

The principal told me today she is pulling this group of boys into her office. We'llsee. I can imagine this will only make them more angry at ds. WIth the school being so small, there really no where for him to go.

I wish you both the best of luck with this!

[nader]

Bottom-line: As the parent, YOU are the first and last line of defense for your child. I encourage you to NOT delay on meeting this responsibility. Every "episode" that your son experiences from this bully is accumulative and your son is being broken down by each--physically and sometimes worst, spiritually. By removing your child from any harmful or potentially dangerous situation, the only message you would send is that bullying is NOT tolerable nor acceptable and that your child can always rely on his parent (if no one else) to come to his defenses.

Hope this helps and you are in our thoughts.

From another mom trying to do her best,
nader from VT

[LukesMum]

[QUOTE
How does your son respond? Does he get really angry?

I.[/QUOTE]

so sorry I havent been on here...yikes...didnt know I had so many repsonses...let me get to them...

My son used to cry, then he started to get angry....all these responses just encouraged the boy...

[LukesMum]

[QUOTE=That's not what makes a child a victim of bullying. It's usually the outcast, the child with special needs, the kid who wants friends but has no friendship skills who becomes a target. That's because bright, likeable kids can more easily be "bullyproofed" that kids who have a lot of extra challanges.[/QUOTE]
Really? From what I read it can be any type of kid. My son is very tender hearted and that can make him a target--he doesnt shoot back...he doesnt like being "mean"...he just wants everything to be ok!
I told my son that he had a right to stand up for himself, to tell this child "NO! I dont have to GO AWAY!" and even gave him some sarcastic comments like " Having a bad day?" The problem in this situation is its a very very csmall school...theres really no where else for him to go. Theres a group of about 8 boys , he is friends with most, but this one kid I believe is jealous of him and wants him OUT. My son just wants everything to be ok, so he doesnt want to pop this kid. There has been some physical things- the kid throwing balls at him, throwing wood chips etc. But its mostly emotional/verbal.....and gving him mean looks....telling him he is the most unpopular kid in the 4th grade-that he's annoying etc. It was constant and every day...

We worked with the school counselor to help him with coping skills, but as this kid got more aggressive--I realized its not about him learning to deal with it-this child need to be dealt with!

[LukesMum]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

She's not a member, but she is not a German citizen either--she is an American in Germany for the sole reason of working on a military base. I'm really not certain that she is subject to the educational requirements of a German child.

we are subject to German laws, we are expats, my husband works for a private firm. I work on base very part time but as a Host nation contractor so no legal protection. Trust me well researched..

[LukesMum]

Hi
Im so sorry I havent updated...believe it not..I have been very very ill with a wicked wicked flu ( in May???) Surprise surprise.....with the stress we've been under.

So, like an idiot, I ended blubbering in the principal's office, frustrated, angry etc. I felt like an idiot afterward...but guess what? I learned I DO matter to the school!!!! First of all, We arent eligible to go to Dodds-we have to pay to go ( something crazy like $18,000 a year and we would be space available) but my plan was to get on the list and then tell the school that's where we were going, get our records, then homeschool. I talked to Dodds and it seems they are very full but they were sympathetic to my situation. The positive thing is they have a G and T program that my son could go into IF he got in!!So, I could probably get away with hsing for a while-maybe even until we leave (2 years) by telling his school thats where we are going and being put on a waiting list. I went to the counselor and told her about Dodds ( she worked there for 35 years) and she said she was sad to see us go but she understood. I believe she went to the principal.

The very next day ds came to me after school and said that he had played with the younger kids (kindergarten and first grade) at recess and this kid started going up to the younger kids and "recruiting" them to dislike ds and come play with them. He was devastated!! We walked into the principal's office and she gave him a big hug, looked at me, and I said "Fix it-or we are leaving". The next day she started a series of meetings with all of the boys in this group....she was very firm and said this behavior would not continue and there were laws and rules about this, that she had NEVER had to implement, but she would for the first time if it didnt stop. SInce then, they have continued to meet every other day or so and talk about how the others would feel, treating people with respect, caring etc. It was never a ds and the other kid singled out, but underlying-they knew. Some of the other boys were quiet when it happened and now feel badly, some participated and also feel badly. Lots of tears she said. At first, some of the other mums were angry there boys were being pulled into the principal's office-but overall the response has been positive as ALL the boys are feeling much better. The one kid's mom went storming in..Im told she feels ok about it now-but that she is concerned a friendship is being "forced". I talked to my son about this- that this kid may simply not like him, and he gets that, even though its hard. We are working on "it's not about you" things.

so, for now, he is feeling better. Im exhausted. I'm feeling the repercussions of being in a small school and having caused a stir (but who give a flying flip) My "friends" all have hubbys who works with this other moms hubby-so its ackward and they havent pubilcially backed me up too well. (sad) Im not sure if now too much has happened...we'll see. for now, my kids are happy. I did ask them waht they want-and while they love hsing, they like their school and friends too. so for now, we are hanging in. I am still waiting to hear from Dodds and still have my plan.

VERY long- sorry. but thank you thank you for support!!! I have been coming here for 10 years to hear from like minded mamas-it's a blessing!! One thing to add-when Im around rude or unkind people, I get away! I dont allow these type of people into my life. I dont feel my son had any choice-he HAD to interract with this child every day...and I dont think thats a life lesson he needs to learn at 10.

Bless

[Tigerle]

thanks for the update! I am very glad to hear that the situation has improved so much for your son and hope you'll feel better about it soon, too - as you recover from the flu, you may recover some equilibrium. Don't make it more about the other moms than it has to be! I suppose the "let the kids work it out" and "you can't force a friendship" attitude is still way too entrenched for the other moms to feel they need to show real support. As long as you feel the others are at least letting it go, I'd try to let it go, too, and take comfort from the fact that it is a transitory situation, whatever you end up doing, as you will move somewhere else in two year's time and others might move sooner.

While the effort to make sure immigrant children were covered by compulsory public schooling in Germany represented a huge step forward for children of barely educated migrant workers in the 60s and 70s who were falling through the cracks, it isn't really a situation that fits the children of a certain expatriate community...it is scary when there are so few options. Hopefully this school will remain one of yours and your kids keep liking it.

[Subhuti]

How much of the aggression happening at the school is cultural? I ask this because my friend is an expat in Germany as well, and says the level of aggression amongst adults and the children she works with is unreal. Her son was bullied as well his first year, and his teachers were likewise very passive.

It's funny, I think of the States as being pretty aggressive, but perhaps it's not.

Liz

[LukesMum]

I agree....!!! There is a lot of the "boys will be boys" thing in Europe....rough housing.....no adult interference...some of the things the kids can do on the playground would NEVER be allowed in the states! Seriously...but my kids are pretty used to being with kids from otehr cultures....they've grown up in Singpore, the Middle EAst and now here....still....its pretty sad.

I just want to add one more comment, which is kinda catty, but the mom is a Religious Education teacher!!! We have a group that meets before school for RE....Catholic!!! Can you believe that???

[DariusMom]

I live in Holland, but the low-level inter-personal aggression -- manifested by adults but also by kids in the school yard -- is pretty amazing.

On the one hand, Holland (and I imagine much of Germany) is a very peaceful country. Outside of a few areas in major cities, the crime rates are very very low, and, even when there's crime, it's usually relatively non-violent, petty stuff. I feel very safe here, very safe letting DS run around outside and play, walk to school on his own, etc., etc. After having lived in Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro, Brazil and Washington, DC, Holland is a piece of cake!

*But*, people are really aggressive towards each other and any time I've tried to change things at DS' school, I definitely get a "boys will be boys" and "the kids need to sort it out themselves" response. Now, people who know me IRL know I'm a free range parent and that I do think there's a lot of validity in letting kids sort out their own issues. However, most of the anti-bullying policies are pretty lax and manners, concern, and empathy for each other just isn't emphasized.

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

here is a link to a good article:
http://wondertime.go.com/learning/ar...our-child.html

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Did you read the link I posted? What do you think of the article?

I read it and found it utterly useless. It gives examples of how NOT to respond, but not one example of how one should respond. Not even a helpful hint.

Originally Posted by LukesMum

Hi
The very next day ds came to me after school and said that he had played with the younger kids (kindergarten and first grade) at recess and this kid started going up to the younger kids and "recruiting" them to dislike ds and come play with them. He was devastated!! We walked into the principal's office and she gave him a big hug, looked at me, and I said "Fix it-or we are leaving". The next day she started a series of meetings with all of the boys in this group....she was very firm and said this behavior would not continue and there were laws and rules about this, that she had NEVER had to implement, but she would for the first time if it didnt stop. SInce then, they have continued to meet every other day or so and talk about how the others would feel, treating people with respect, caring etc. It was never a ds and the other kid singled out, but underlying-they knew. Some of the other boys were quiet when it happened and now feel badly, some participated and also feel badly. Lots of tears she said. At first, some of the other mums were angry there boys were being pulled into the principal's office-but overall the response has been positive as ALL the boys are feeling much better. The one kid's mom went storming in..Im told she feels ok about it now-but that she is concerned a friendship is being "forced". I talked to my son about this- that this kid may simply not like him, and he gets that, even though its hard. We are working on "it's not about you" things.

Bolding mine. It seems you had to be firm to get anywhere. I'd be glad, but much more cautious. Right now the principal does not want your son to leave, so is being proactive. Eventually things will "get back to normal." That's at the point I would be alert. Will "back to normal" mean with the new, healthier enviornment for your son? Or will it mean slowly reverting to the old ways as the bully sees what he can get away with and your DS learns to hide the bullying better, out of shame?

I'm not saying it WILL happen, but it is a realistic possibility because esp. small schools like everyone pegged in a roll, and even if the rolls are wrong, it is what the kids know and on some levels feel comfortable with. If it upsets the dynamic of the class, then the bullied roll will need to be filled. And if that ends up being your DS again, it will only be MUCH harder and more painful for your son. He may feel helpless and trapped, and hide it from you.

You have given fair warning when you said "fix it or we are leaving." I would follow that up with clearly telling the principal you are truely pleased she finally took this seriously and has been able to change the dynamic. BUT, if it even starts to go back to how it was before, you will pull your son, instantly. And be clear about it. And do it, if needed. I hope you won't need to..

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by DariusMom

*But*, people are really aggressive towards each other and any time I've tried to change things at DS' school, I definitely get a "boys will be boys" and "the kids need to sort it out themselves" response. Now, people who know me IRL know I'm a free range parent and that I do think there's a lot of validity in letting kids sort out their own issues. However, most of the anti-bullying policies are pretty lax and manners, concern, and empathy for each other just isn't emphasized.

That is probably very true for Germany as well - physical safety in the streets, but not necessarily in schools on the playground, and emotional safety being a foreign concept in more ways than one.
However, I am surprised that this appears to hold true for an International School, where most teachers and students would be expatriates themselves, trained and socialized mostly in places like the UK, the US and Australia and the school community is rather isolated from the society around them. I know that the one feature about the local IS that parents really rave about is the culture of respect and empathy at that school, which they hadn't found in German schools. It did sound as if there were issues with the anti-bullying policies at the school the OP's kids go to, as the response was so glacially slow, but it appears to have kicked into gear now.
I think the insularity of the expatriate community may be a factor as well -there is just no getting away from one another.

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by Tigerle

That is probably very true for Germany as well - physical safety in the streets, but not necessarily in schools on the playground, and emotional safety being a foreign concept in more ways than one.
However, I am surprised that this appears to hold true for an International School, where most teachers and students would be expatriates themselves, trained and socialized mostly in places like the UK, the US and Australia and the school community is rather isolated from the society around them. I know that the one feature about the local IS that parents really rave about is the culture of respect and empathy at that school, which they hadn't found in German schools. It did sound as if there were issues with the anti-bullying policies at the school the OP's kids go to, as the response was so glacially slow, but it appears to have kicked into gear now.
I think the insularity of the expatriate community may be a factor as well -there is just no getting away from one another.

sorry. I got the thread a bit off topic by musing about my own experiences as a foreigner in this part of Europe (and my DS goes to a local Dutch school) and lost sight of the fact that this was an international school.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming!

[LukesMum]

Yes......it is a small International School but we have a diverse mix....not so many AMericans but lots of Brits....few AUssies ....about 25% German as well as Dutch, Danish, Russian etc....and many of the local British kids have a parent who is German.

I completey agree that it is hard to get away from everyone...that is part of the problem!