Ingratitude

[PreggieUBA2C]

I know that my dc are young and I don't think of or expect thank-yous for mundane daily contributions that I make to our family life, though I do sometimes receive them.

I am to a point where I dread giving my dc gifts though. It is one thing for them all to have unending complaints about a meal I've prepared or an errand we run for the benefit of everyone, but to listen to complaining and whining when receiving bicycles or gifts of other sorts is just really disappointing and wearing to me. I don't even want to give them gifts anymore because it doesn't seem to matter how much they wanted the items or that they are exactly the ones they asked for or that they are really just neat; they complain, whine, throw fits, sulk and carry on in a very negative way.

I think that some of it is their ability to observe and make comparisons and contrast what they've observed, and some of it is their desire for and seeking after independence, but I just don't see how I can continue to withstand it against my own human desire to please them with gifts and my own humanness in general.

I would even be happy if they took it and ran off without a thank-you, but they don't do that; they stick around to tell me everything that's wrong with what they've been given or worse.

I don't give gifts conditionally at all, so this isn't about me being happy about their responses. It is about how I can withstand the overwhelming ingratitude manifest in overt negativity that I then have to contend with, feel the stress of, and somehow move on from. I am just a human being, and I feel disappointed by this reality in my family life.

I think it is compounded by having it from four little people all at once and that it accompanies gift-giving. It isn't as hard to take from the 29 month old, so I do think that my own ability to cope is at issue here, and likely this is not a phenomenon at all, and just a stage of maturation.

Does anyone else experience this and how do you cope?

As I wrote, I am at the point of quitting gift-giving. We bought our boys all new bikes today and they are inside sulking that the bikes are too hard to ride and they don't want them now (amidst other complaints) and I do know that this isn't their reaction to the giving of the gift, but rather the implicit expectation of the bike- that they will learn to ride it and found that after one attempt it didn't come together with ease and so they feel frustrated.

Again, just wondering how to not feel so let down by this in general since it happens no matter what the gift; it is the norm here.

[nola79]

I would probably stop the gift giving, or at least slow down on it, make them appreciate it a little more. We had a similar problem with ds, not complaining, but not taking care of expensive gifts, so we stopped giving expensive gifts until he is mature enough to appreciate it. Another thing that has helped is him earning his own money to buy what he wants.

[Juvysen]

I think my mom dealt with my sister doing this be either 1) having her pick out *exactly* what she wanted or 2) getting her gift cards. Neither feel like very satisfying gifts for the giver, admittedly...

My own experience with ungratefulness for gifts is that it usually springs from my feeling like the person should know me better than that. That is, I remember once my mom bought me the most horridly ugly pants I ever remember seeing. I was in, maybe, 4th grade? I remember sobbing, but it wasn't because of the gift, itself, but that that gift somehow was representative of how well she knows me and she "should" know me better than to think I'd want those horrible pants... She kept saying "well, you know, we can take them back!" but it wasn't fixing the problem because the problem wasn't the pants. Looking back, now, I know it's because my mom's just not very good at gift giving (she misses the mark a *lot*), but somehow it still really hurt back then.

I guess the problem was sort of that I was very close to my mother, so when she missed the mark, it felt more personal than if it was from someone else. I felt bad that I didn't like it - it somehow just felt like we weren't as close as I felt, if we weren't on the same page about this?

So... all that to say that as uncomfortable as it is to have people be ungrateful for gifts you give them, maybe it's sort of a *good* thing - meaning they believe they are so close to you that when a gift doesn't match up to what they expected, they feel confused?

I don't think I'm explaining this well, and maybe it's far from what is going on with your kids, but I just thought I'd share my experience.

[lmk1]

I only have some ideas...so see if any are useful to you.

How much do they participate (you mentioned they complain about meals) in making meals? I find that even for myself if my dh makes a meal that I don't like, I'm much more negative about it, than when I make part of it, if it didn't turn out to my taste. Meaning, one is more understanding (of the effort) and accepting of the results when one is involved. I know it's pretty hard to have 4 boys helping...but perhaps each one could have one task...cracking eggs, mixing, being in charge of the timer to make sure something doesn't overcook, etc?
As far as actual presents, I think giving them an allowance, and telling them that they need to save up 5% or 10% of whatever it is that they want. Allow them to buy smaller things so that get a feel for money's value. My 2.5 year old gets whatever change we have lying around...and he's gotten to buy matchbox cars with his money, and he does understand that you use money to buy things that you want. If you're the one spending your own money for yourself, you're more likely to appreciate it (and be more careful with your purchase).

The other thing is you're pregnant, right? I know I am much more emotional when pregnant, and you have 3 more kids (and all of them boys!) than I do. Feeling stress over taking care of so many little people and being pregnant can intensify feelings... And it could be that the boys are not sulking at you for the bikes, but just voicing their own feelings about that learning a new skill is harder than they thought. You know that saying "be careful what you wish for"... You could just say, "yes, learning to ride bikes is hard...let's go practice!"

And finally, how are you and your dh regarding new experiences and things? I love new experiences when I've thought of them but if it's something that someone decides to do for me, I'm much more critical and dubious about enjoying it...even if it's something I end up enjoying. Are both of you upbeat and excited when you get presents (and so modeling that for the boys)?

Good luck!

[One_Girl]

When dd shows ingratitude I offer to remove the thing she isn't grateful for whether it is the dinner I cooked or something I bought for her while I was out and feeling generous. I used to just take it in, but a few months ago I read a post on here about gratitude and healthy boundaries that made a lot of sense. I allow my dd to make herself a healthy alternative or to make due with what she has, but I no longer welcome ingratitude. I have noticed that since I have started pointing this out she has started to thank me more and almost completely stopped complaining.

[Nansense]

You can absolutely expect it - or at least start working on it. I had to make a conscious effort to teach them when I was at the end of my rope feeling unappreciated. Still do, but they do say T.Y. most of the time. After they say T.Y. I say 'thank you for saying thank you.' and they think its funny.

[PreggieUBA2C]

Op here.

Originally Posted by nola79

I would probably stop the gift giving, or at least slow down on it, make them appreciate it a little more. We had a similar problem with ds, not complaining, but not taking care of expensive gifts, so we stopped giving expensive gifts until he is mature enough to appreciate it. Another thing that has helped is him earning his own money to buy what he wants.

We have done this and are discussing it again. We have definitely limited expensive gifts to very sturdy things that cannot be broken. We're thinking that maybe for the next while, we'll not buy any more gifts.

Originally Posted by Juvysen

I think my mom dealt with my sister doing this be either 1) having her pick out *exactly* what she wanted or 2) getting her gift cards. Neither feel like very satisfying gifts for the giver, admittedly...

My own experience with ungratefulness for gifts is that it usually springs from my feeling like the person should know me better than that. That is, I remember once my mom bought me the most horridly ugly pants I ever remember seeing. I was in, maybe, 4th grade? I remember sobbing, but it wasn't because of the gift, itself, but that that gift somehow was representative of how well she knows me and she "should" know me better than to think I'd want those horrible pants... She kept saying "well, you know, we can take them back!" but it wasn't fixing the problem because the problem wasn't the pants. Looking back, now, I know it's because my mom's just not very good at gift giving (she misses the mark a *lot*), but somehow it still really hurt back then.

I guess the problem was sort of that I was very close to my mother, so when she missed the mark, it felt more personal than if it was from someone else. I felt bad that I didn't like it - it somehow just felt like we weren't as close as I felt, if we weren't on the same page about this?

So... all that to say that as uncomfortable as it is to have people be ungrateful for gifts you give them, maybe it's sort of a *good* thing - meaning they believe they are so close to you that when a gift doesn't match up to what they expected, they feel confused?

I don't think I'm explaining this well, and maybe it's far from what is going on with your kids, but I just thought I'd share my experience.

I have a lifetime of experience with this. I received one gift from my parents, ever, that was relevent to me. My parents are twisted though and deliberately gave me gifts that were exactly what I didn't want, or something that I wanted in but in a colour or design that I had expressed that I disliked, thereby spoiling the gift for me. I didn't receive a lot of gifts to begin with, so when the opportunity came, I was very clear.

With my dc, I know them extremely well. I know their likes and dislikes and it is the things they choose themselves that most often result in the complaining. Come to think of it, the things they never complain about at all and express lots of excitement about are the toys I make by hand myself- regardless of what it is. They have no end of enthusiasm for those. I also much prefer to give handmade as well. Perhaps I have my answer. Perhaps non-hand-made seems less personal and open for a different sort of scrutiny than mum-made? I'm going to think about this.

With the bikes, which I know has an added layer of skill-acquisition that they may not have anticipated in a real way rather than a hypothetical way, they chose the ones they wanted after trying several in the store and they were very pleased with their choices until we were home and the choices were finalised for them. Again, maybe this is what is going on and has nothing to do with the gift, but rather the finality of the experience and autonomy involved in asserting that particular choice.

Originally Posted by lmk1

I only have some ideas...so see if any are useful to you.

How much do they participate (you mentioned they complain about meals) in making meals? I find that even for myself if my dh makes a meal that I don't like, I'm much more negative about it, than when I make part of it, if it didn't turn out to my taste. Meaning, one is more understanding (of the effort) and accepting of the results when one is involved. I know it's pretty hard to have 4 boys helping...but perhaps each one could have one task...cracking eggs, mixing, being in charge of the timer to make sure something doesn't overcook, etc?
As far as actual presents, I think giving them an allowance, and telling them that they need to save up 5% or 10% of whatever it is that they want. Allow them to buy smaller things so that get a feel for money's value. My 2.5 year old gets whatever change we have lying around...and he's gotten to buy matchbox cars with his money, and he does understand that you use money to buy things that you want. If you're the one spending your own money for yourself, you're more likely to appreciate it (and be more careful with your purchase).

The other thing is you're pregnant, right? I know I am much more emotional when pregnant, and you have 3 more kids (and all of them boys!) than I do. Feeling stress over taking care of so many little people and being pregnant can intensify feelings... And it could be that the boys are not sulking at you for the bikes, but just voicing their own feelings about that learning a new skill is harder than they thought. You know that saying "be careful what you wish for"... You could just say, "yes, learning to ride bikes is hard...let's go practice!"

And finally, how are you and your dh regarding new experiences and things? I love new experiences when I've thought of them but if it's something that someone decides to do for me, I'm much more critical and dubious about enjoying it...even if it's something I end up enjoying. Are both of you upbeat and excited when you get presents (and so modeling that for the boys)?

Good luck!

I probably shouldn't have used meals as an example because it is far less frequently an issue than it used to be, and whether or not they have participated seems unrelated to the complaining; it's pretty random. Usually they have a fluid way of coming and going and doing things during the meal preparation so that while they don't all participate in preparing the same meal, over the course of a day, they have all participated in preparing at least one.

I do understand the concept you've expressed here, though. But I'm not sure how to make their experience better for them because with purchased gifts, they almost always choose their own because we generally ony purchase big items for them like a rock maple blocks set, bicycles, a wooden wagon, guitars, etc... Other items I make or if it is smaller and/or for the whole family rather than individually given like board games or sports equipment, dp and I choose and they typically don't complain then either.

I think I may have figured out what is going on. I think it is the finality of the experience or the end of options that has them feeling let-down. I remember feeling that way on the day after a sleep-over having to come home and recognise the end of the experience.

When they express dismay, I do encourage them rather than make any cynical remarks (I also experienced that as a child and don't even think that way with my dc; I've told other people to not spaek at all if they can't think of anything encouraging to say to my dc when that has happened; it is sadly a common type of response to children ). I said exactly what you wrote above about the bikes. I expressed that it will take as much practice as they each need in order to ride them well, and that can be hard, but that when they can ride them well, the feeling of being able to move so quickly and over our foothills will be really fun for them- which they know about themselves because they love doing that with gt snowracers and were likewise looking forward to riding the hills on bikes.

I am personally a lot as you describe yourself. I love new experiences that I've chosen. I don't know what my reaction to receiving gifts is since it has been so infrequent in my adult life that I am not aware of any pattern, since I don't receive gifts with any frequency that would allow a pattern to emerge.

I am definitely more emotional being pg than when not, but that just makes me closer to normal. If you've heard of MBTI types, I am an INTJ and my thinking/feeling is extreme in the thinking aspect and nearly non-existent in the feeling aspect. I do have deep feelings, but my processing is intellectual rather than emotional. What is true about how I am feeling about this is that I have not had an hour or even less to myself for two months and I know that is affecting how well I cope in general (also an extreme introvert, so the lack of quiet, alone recharge time makes my days filled with an underying feeling sort of like needles in my eyes). I can usually be very upbeat in spite of how my dc are behaving, but I'm feeling worn by the two months of no break coinciding with them being off melatonin and not sleeping well again, resulting in whining and melt-downs several times each day (not each, but in total).

I think I'll pull out my sewing machine and make them something the next time the gift-giving urge strikes me. Or my tools and lumber. As I wrote above, they have cherished everything I've ever made for them and even lament the loss of a hand-sewn leopard seal that was left two years ago across country.




Thanks mamas for helping me to sort out options and consider what is underlying our experiences of late. That's another 3rd trimester issue for me; I forget things like that they looooove hand-made and that we all love both the giving and receiving.

So, they don't complain about everything and I don't have a good memory right now.

[Drummer's Wife]

I would be irritated, too! My kids are really grateful for gifts, fun outings, and even good meals. I get a lot of thanks and hugs and kisses. That's not to say they don't fight or complain, because they certainly do - but they show gratitude as well.

I would want to stop getting them new things or taking them to cool places if they were ungrateful. But I don't know how you go about fixing that, besides modeling it, I guess. Maybe letting them know it hurts your feelings, and that their complaints are annoying - but I'm guessing you do that already.

[Belia]

I went through a phase when I really struggled with receiving gifts and was pretty ungrateful, although I think I was a little older than your guys (12 ish?)

My issues had to do with expectations. Take Christmas, for example. It was the biggest gift giving occasion of the year. And it only comes once! So you'd better make the most of it! Because if your gifts suck, then you're screwed for a WHOLE YEAR. That's it! Nothing to look forward to for 12 looooong months. So your gifts had better be awesome to make all of the wait worth it.

Of course, the gifts never could possibly live up to the buildup. The anticipation was better than the reality, because it was still possible for the gifts to be 100% perfect and bring 100% happiness when they were still wrapped under the tree. But once the paper starting coming off the packages..... reality set in.

That's a lot of navel gazing, but I remember SO STRONGLY how hard it was to manage those expectations. Maybe your boys are going through the same.

[SweetPotato]

My 4.5 yo does this too, to a certain degree. She talked for MONTHS about wanting a dora bike with training wheels. I found on eof Craigslist (hooray!) which she LOVED-- until we went for a walk a few weeks later and she saw a princess bike with sparkly streamers. She informe dme that "you got the WRONG bike- I want THIS bike" I was NOT happy. I told her that it hurt my feelings-- that Daddy and I had looked a long time to find her the exact dora bike that she said she wanted. I then told her that we would not be buying her another bike, but that she's welcome to save up her money and buy it herself-- I even asked if she wanted to sell her dora bike. She, of course, was horrified at the idea of selling her dora bike-- has mentioned it a little since, but not as any big deal (and as she gets better at riding, she has more than once said "oh thank you for buying me this bike!") She's a very expressive kid, and that goes for both positive and negative feelings (both of which are very intense and often accompanied by superlatives) The other night she said "I'm the luckiest girl in the whole world!" When dh asked what made her so lucky, she said "you and Mommy do!" She often thanks me for making dinner, for taking her to the park, for getting her special things. She's also prone to telling us when "this is the worst day in the world-- you picked a BAD thing to do today" (this when she's had a minor disappointment). I try not to sweat it. I understand how it hurts when it' tied with gifts, though. I see nothing wrong with backing off-- even syaing "When I got you these other things, I did it because I like to make you happy. You expressed that they weren't what you wanted, and so I feel like I must not be very good at knowing what you will like. I don't want to get you things if you won't enjoy them." At 4yo I can understand that they're still learning-- by 6 or 7 Iwould htink that they should be learning the self control to be gracious-- though I still value honesty as well, honesty can be expressed with kindness. We watched Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and sometimes hen dd is acting particularly snarky about wanting things and things not being good enough, I tell her that she's reminding me of Veruca-- who we both agree is quite obnoxious. She doesn't like being compared to her- but I think it sometimes helps her see from the outside how she's acting.

[amcal]

Honestly, if I had given my children bikes and they sulked and complained and said they didn't want them, those bikes would be back at the store so fast their heads would spin.

I do not tolerate ungrateful. They are allowed to express opinions and preferences but, they learned very early about gratitude. We talk about how people have to work hard to earn money to buy them gifts and that it is incredibly disrespectful to not be appreciative of that.

We talk about this before every party. That even if the gift isn't exactly to their taste, they are to express appreciation and gratefulness for the thought.

We also talk about how things might not be their exact taste but, that doesn't make the things useless and that sometimes we have to adapt and be flexible.

But, yeah, if my kids complained about the bikes and said they didn't want them? I wouldn't say another word, I would take the bikes back.

[K1329]

I think it may have to do with the challenge of riding the bikes, rather than being ungrateful.
Just these last couple of weeks we've been working w/ dd, teaching her to ride a bike without training wheels. I've come to realize that it's one of the first things she's ever had to REALLY work for on her own. For dd, reading, writing, tying shoes, etc. have all come super easily. She has struggled with riding a bike immensely and gave up angrily on her first few attempts - and went into the living room to sulk - just like you decribed! But riding a bike is something that you have to do on your own, nobody can do it for you. It's a big deal. I suspect your boys came to realize the work that goes into learning how to ride a new bike.

(BTW, after one short week, dd is now absolutely proud of herself and riding around the neighborhood - though, still a little shakily. Her hard work payed off!)

[tinuviel_k]

Originally Posted by amcal

Honestly, if I had given my children bikes and they sulked and complained and said they didn't want them, those bikes would be back at the store so fast their heads would spin.

I do not tolerate ungrateful. They are allowed to express opinions and preferences but, they learned very early about gratitude. We talk about how people have to work hard to earn money to buy them gifts and that it is incredibly disrespectful to not be appreciative of that.

We talk about this before every party. That even if the gift isn't exactly to their taste, they are to express appreciation and gratefulness for the thought.

We also talk about how things might not be their exact taste but, that doesn't make the things useless and that sometimes we have to adapt and be flexible.

But, yeah, if my kids complained about the bikes and said they didn't want them? I wouldn't say another word, I would take the bikes back.

This exactly. It may initially sound harsh, but I don't think that it is. If I bought my child a bike or other item as a gift and then they complained and whined about it I would either return it or remove it for awhile if that was not a possibility. After all, if they don't want the gift then it is not a punishment to get rid of it! And if they do in fact want the gift then hopefully they will realize that whining about it and sulking is not the best way to express that.

I think politeness is SO important. Of course if my daughter was genuinely disappointed with a gift we got for her we could talk politely about exchanging it, with no hurt feelings on all sides. But whining and complaining and big grumpy entitlement issues... no.

I feel that I am entitled to the same degree of politeness that a friend or other relative is given. If my daughter received a gift of a toy from a grandparent or a school friend it would never, ever be okay for her to say in front of them, "I didn't WANT that." (sulk) "How come you didn't get me THIS instead?" (whine) "This is a stupid toy!" (mope). Likewise, she should never say any of that to me when I get her a gift!

Instead, my kiddo knows that a gift isn't what we would always like, but it is polite and necessary to receive the gift in the spirit it was given. She doesn't need to fake loving a gift that she didn't like, but she does need to keep in mind that someone got her the gift thinking of her, and that there is love and care in that. Because she understands and respects that fact it really shows when she says thank you and gives a hug, even if she will later ask in private if we can return the gift or give it away.

I think a very important lesson we can teach our kids is that they are not entitled to gifts and presents (though with every holiday and birthday seeming to tell them otherwise this is a hard concept!). That the real gift is the action that shows that someone is thinking of us. They can be taught how to be grateful for the act of giving even if they are not exactly thrilled about the gift itself.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by amcal

Honestly, if I had given my children bikes and they sulked and complained and said they didn't want them, those bikes would be back at the store so fast their heads would spin.

I do not tolerate ungrateful. They are allowed to express opinions and preferences but, they learned very early about gratitude. We talk about how people have to work hard to earn money to buy them gifts and that it is incredibly disrespectful to not be appreciative of that.

We talk about this before every party. That even if the gift isn't exactly to their taste, they are to express appreciation and gratefulness for the thought.

We also talk about how things might not be their exact taste but, that doesn't make the things useless and that sometimes we have to adapt and be flexible.

But, yeah, if my kids complained about the bikes and said they didn't want them? I wouldn't say another word, I would take the bikes back.

Thanks for this. I would have handled things in a similar manner. No kid of mine gets to act all bratty about a gift that our family worked hard to give.

[PreggieUBA2C]

Op again.

Originally Posted by SweetPotato

We watched Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and sometimes hen dd is acting particularly snarky about wanting things and things not being good enough, I tell her that she's reminding me of Veruca-- who we both agree is quite obnoxious. She doesn't like being compared to her- but I think it sometimes helps her see from the outside how she's acting.

We have watched this movie too. Our dc recognised right away that the ingratitude of those children was horrific without any prompting and talked about it for weeks afterward with concern. Yesterday when we were all inside, I brought up the way those children had behaved and that was what stopped them (I should have specified that our 29 month old was never complaining at all to begin with- just the older three). At first they said that they weren't behaving that way and then immediately became quiet and embarrassed and didn't say anything more about the bikes, but they were very mild the rest of the night and especially appreciative of mundane things.

Then this morning they were all abuzz about trying again and finishing up breakfasts so they could go out right away and practice. They all came to me and told me at different times that they really liked the bike they chose or what they planned to try to do today with it.

Dp and I discussed this last night. Our boys make loads of decisions all day long on their own, but they are fleeting, things that they can change the next moment if they like or things that will be different later on and they can anticipate that. When we do purchase something for them individually that is not a gift but just something they need, they come with us and they choose it- jackets, boots, mitts, booster seat (the colour; we choose the safest one), and other mundane sorts of things and they don't complain about those, but rather thank us for their new stuff. They are thankful in mundane things all the time now, though there was a year when they were all at a developmental stage at the same time when they complained about that stuff non-stop, but that's over with now, thankfully.

Dp and I agreed that choosing a bike is different. It is a permanent sort of decision and they have little experience with living out these sorts of decisions. Jackets and seasonal gear are seasonal, temporary; the older two trade booster seats when they feel like it and most of their decisions don't come with a long living it out period or the anticipation of that, so this one was monumental for them. And it came with an implicit expectation of effort to learn how to do it. This is also something that surprised them.

Like a pp wrote, my dc rarely have to work at learning anything. They are unaccustomed to finding their skills inadequate for transferring to a new skill so that they generally watch someone and then just do it or within their first attempt they find success. This time, two fell down and one couldn't pedal up a hill. This was shocking to them and they were devastated.

Today we had a long talk about what it takes to learn a completely new skill and they are right now working on it in spurts intermixed with riding on the truck with dp and running around. They are pacing themselves to cope with their frustration level, which is an important skill to develop; I am feeling encouraged now rather than disappointed.

I think in the future dp and I will discuss this reality with them when they choose something that seems permanent to them.

Originally Posted by amcal

Honestly, if I had given my children bikes and they sulked and complained and said they didn't want them, those bikes would be back at the store so fast their heads would spin.

I do not tolerate ungrateful. They are allowed to express opinions and preferences but, they learned very early about gratitude. We talk about how people have to work hard to earn money to buy them gifts and that it is incredibly disrespectful to not be appreciative of that.

We talk about this before every party. That even if the gift isn't exactly to their taste, they are to express appreciation and gratefulness for the thought.

We also talk about how things might not be their exact taste but, that doesn't make the things useless and that sometimes we have to adapt and be flexible.

But, yeah, if my kids complained about the bikes and said they didn't want them? I wouldn't say another word, I would take the bikes back.

I agree, and I would have brought them back so that we could have the discussion we had this morning before attempting another purchase, but we learned all at the same time in the store that the bikes are not returnable. We live in the remote north and built bikes are ony repaired, but not returned (and some of them thousands of dollars; it would freak me out to invest in one of those with no return policy!).

We do talk quite a bit about the value of our time and how right now dp trades his time for money and that money is used to purchase things we need and want. Our dc really miss dp when he's at his job (he's gone 14 hrs at a time) so we discuss this frequently. They are also very gracious when receiving gifts from others. I think that this is an issue to do with their experience with their own decision. They were not complaining that we bought the bikes or that the bikes were terrible or anything like that; they were sulking about their own inability to use them, but then not trying and that became very tiring with all of their superlatives and whining mixed in.

I usually don't post about my dc because if I allow myself some time, I can figure out what's going on, but this time, I really wanted some feedback and ideas to work with from the experience of others, and dp was not able to talk about it just yet. So thank you for sharing what you would do. I think in the future, I will better prepare my dc so that I can eliminate some of the confusion between us and be better able to determine if they are even ready for such a decision and the living out of that decision afterwards. If we had discussed it at length with them knowing the variables and then were whining about it, I would probably just put them in the shed until they wanted to use them, but now that I've learned a lesson, I think this will be much easier to navigate.

Originally Posted by K1329

I think it may have to do with the challenge of riding the bikes, rather than being ungrateful.
Just these last couple of weeks we've been working w/ dd, teaching her to ride a bike without training wheels. I've come to realize that it's one of the first things she's ever had to REALLY work for on her own. For dd, reading, writing, tying shoes, etc. have all come super easily. She has struggled with riding a bike immensely and gave up angrily on her first few attempts - and went into the living room to sulk - just like you decribed! But riding a bike is something that you have to do on your own, nobody can do it for you. It's a big deal. I suspect your boys came to realize the work that goes into learning how to ride a new bike.

(BTW, after one short week, dd is now absolutely proud of herself and riding around the neighborhood - though, still a little shakily. Her hard work payed off!)

I wrote about this above forgetting that I had quoted your post. I'm pg. Sigh. Thank you for sharing this; there is a definite and enomous element of skill-acquisition surprise involved wth my dc too. They are very excited about what they'll be able to do once they can ride well; we live in the foothills of a mountain with huge sand piles. They are going have so much fun! We also had to discuss risk-management thi morning because our 6 yr old was unsure how much injury he should risk given that just one slow fall caused him a scratch. It was a beneficial discussion for him; he tends to be very cautious, in general. We discussed all of the risks he takes daily with his body to do all the things he does outside and that really opened things up for him.

Originally Posted by tinuviel_k

I think a very important lesson we can teach our kids is that they are not entitled to gifts and presents (though with every holiday and birthday seeming to tell them otherwise this is a hard concept!). That the real gift is the action that shows that someone is thinking of us. They can be taught how to be grateful for the act of giving even if they are not exactly thrilled about the gift itself.

Last night, dp and I enumerated the gifts we've given them in the recent past- the last 6 months to a year, and I think I was unfair earlier in my assessment of my dc because both of us realised that when they were complaining, we were shuttled back in time with them over a year and feeling like this was a continuation of how they were behaving then. But they have received our gifts in the last year with gratitude when they were gifts from us that they didn't choose or know we were going to give to them- when they were surprised. It has been only those things which they have chosen that they have shown any upset about, and it wasn't that they were complaining about our contribution, but rather they were unhappy with their own decisions or the finality of them, the end of options and the end of the decision-making process.

As a child, I remember feeling disappointed by the same thing, but I didn't let on because I was in an abusive home adn it wasn't safe. I did feel the sting of having made a decision that was permanent and realising afterward that I was not in full possession of the facts that may have inclined me toward another decision. In the case of my dc, I did not prepare them for the reality of the effort they would have to put forth to learn how to ride. I didn't consider or discuss with them the permanence of the choice either. I assumed, wrongly, that they had internalised an understanding of those things by virtue of them choosing bikes for themselves. This is a helpful experience for them though and I'm really glad we can experience this together because the other option (dp had suggested this but retracted with my explanation) is to surprise them with all major gifts/items and then they won't be disappointed. But then they will have to wait until they are out of our home to make those decisions and they may end up making decisions they really regret that have far-reaching consequences far out of the range of those of a bicycle.

Our friends are in the midst of purchasing a house and as adults, they express more maturely the very same things that our boys were expressing yesterday- their apprehension, their uncertainty about unknown asects of living in the house on that property, what it will mean for them in terms of work on the house, commute to work, distance from the city, length of time it will take to pay it off or whether or not they want to settle there for the rest of their lives, etc... It's a big decision and they have the coping mechanisms to deal effectively with their concerns (so they don't whine, but weigh their options and discuss), whereas my dc do not yet, but this is an experience that will inform their later mature ability to choose and live with their choices later on and increasingly as they grow into adults.




Thanks again mamas. This discussion was very helpful to me, and exactly what I needed to help me formulate my own perspective on how to better assist and experience this in the future, and right now with my dc.