S/O 5 year old NOT harnessed? - Page 3

[mrskingred]

I haven't read the thread, but the answer is 'yes' if you live in mainland europe. Once they outgrow the harnessed seats here they go into boosters until they are 12 or 150cm. You guys are so lucky to have the option of extended harnessing for taller children.
DS had outgrown his harnessed seat at 3yo and although it converted to a booster he was only 13.5kg, not the min 15kg required by law here. We bought him a german seat with a torso cushion which we can use until he is 18kg, which in his case will probably be around 5yo. His friends all ride around in HBB.

[Roxswood]

My 5y9m dd is in a hbb and has been since she was over 40lbs at about 4 years. You can't buy harnessed seats above that except some special needs seats or a couple of the rearfacing swedish seats. I think I will buy a higher weight rearfacing seat when my second dd outgrows her besafe izikid

[Sharlla]

mo way, that's just not safe IMO. my 5 year old weighs 34 lbs and still RF he'll be in a harness as long as he fits in his carseat.

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by Roxswood

My 5y9m dd is in a hbb and has been since she was over 40lbs at about 4 years. You can't buy harnessed seats above that except some special needs seats or a couple of the rearfacing swedish seats. I think I will buy a higher weight rearfacing seat when my second dd outgrows her besafe izikid

my son fit in in th nautilus seat ($150 at walmart) harnessed when he was 8 (55 lbs)

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by Sharlla

my son fit in in th nautilus seat ($150 at walmart) harnessed when he was 8 (55 lbs)

Were his shoulders at or below the top harness slot? Because weight isn't the only factor in when a car seat is outgrown....

[Smithie]

"I'm trying to understand the other side, but why would you put a 5 year old in a booster sans harness, particularly if the child still fits in one you already have?"

The same reason you'd put a 4-year-old into a booster sans harness - you consider a harness built into a FFing carseat to be inferior in safety to the seat belt built into the actual CAR.

How nice, that the Swedes agree with me and dh But honestly, this is a decision that we reached ourselves, simply by comparing the car seat straps to the seatlbelt and saying "WTF? Why would this zero-rebound setup be better? Won't the kid's had snap forward pretty hard? And why are we assuming that these teensy little metal thingies secured to a plastic shell are not going to break?"

DD2 just went from FFing in a Radian into a high-back booster when she hit 40 lbs, and I think she is now safer. DD3 is going right from her RFing TrueFit into a FFing booster seat - years from now. I'm so glad that extended RFing has come to the US!

[medaroge]

I guess I just dont understand why you wouldn't keep them as safe as you know is possible. The only reason I have read on this thread is that you dont want to buckle/unbuckle them? I dont get it. I'm confused.

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by medaroge

I guess I just dont understand why you wouldn't keep them as safe as you know is possible. The only reason I have read on this thread is that you dont want to buckle/unbuckle them? I dont get it. I'm confused.

Because we don't know that a harness IS safer, once a child is old enough and mature enough to fit properly in a booster, because of the way the head moves when a FF harnessed child is in a crash. There is no evidence to show that a child of booster size and age is safer in a harness. The example of race-car drivers is often given, because they ride in harnesses, but they also have head restraints that restrict the movement of the head in a crash, and thus protect the neck and spine. Our FF kids don't have that.

There is no question that a RF child is far, far safer than anybody else in the car. But once a child cannot rear-face anymore, and can fit properly in a booster, a booster is a safe choice.

FWIW, my five year old CAN fit in my Radians. Barely; her shoulders are just AT the slots. In a month she'll probably be too tall for the harness slots. But I need the Radians for my other two, who are NOT big enough or mature enough for boosters. There's not a rational reason that I can see why I should buy another Radian to put her in a harness for the month or two that she has left where she'll even fit in it. The Turbobooster is safe for a child of her size and age.

A 34 pound child has no business in a booster, and should be rear-facing. I'll agree wholeheartedly with that. But my DD1 is 43 pounds and nearly four feet tall. I am confident that she's as safe as I can make her.

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

We DON'T know that a 5 point harness is safer than a properly used booster. There is no evidence to that.



You didn't read all the posts then.

Lots of us don't believe a 5 point harness is safer, and we mentioned that in our posts....

ITA. If you believe the swedish studies we could turn the pps statement around and say "why would you not put them in a booster and do what is safest." The thing is, we don't know what is safe, it's obvious for a child of appropriate size and maturity that if there is a difference it's not huge, so really both are equally safe as far as we know. And it's a total parental decision as to what you feel is best for your child.

[One_Girl]

My dd stopped using a harness when she was four and switched to the booster seat. She had reached the weight and height limit for her booster seat with a harness at that point. I had no idea that there where car seats that harnessed big kids until I read about on here recently.

[MoonWillow]

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[5gifts]

I wanted to say one quick thing about 5-6 yo kids being ejected from a turbo booster or HBB....I had seen 1 video about a 5yo boy & 8yo girl in turbo boosters - where the girl was fine & the boy was ejected. It made me wonder about the kids buckling themselves in. I have seen my own kids not quite get a seatbelt completely 'seated' - it holds, but isn't completely clicked in.

Last year at my chiro I was talking to a family that was just recovering from an auto accident. The boy - about 6 yo - was not protected by his HBB. He was not ejected from the car & he is ok - but the seat failed and he was hurt somewhat badly. (I think a 10ish yo sister was in a seatbelt and fine) The mom & I were talking about it. The EMT's talked to her about how they do see that often, and talked to her about seats that could harness him. They said the seat belt latch failed, but they could see nothing wrong with it. Her & I talked about how her son might not have pushed it in hard enough to latch.

Right now, I have 2 harness/boosters that harness to 40lb.(both about a year old) My just turned 8yo just came out of the harness about 3-4 months ago. My just turned 5yo needs to come out of the harness any day now. Both would prefer the harness - for some reason - but I just don't see spending lots of $$$ for 2 new seats that could harness longer, since they will only have about an inch more in height even then.

The thing is, they can buckle themselves if in a harness (though I always would check & straighten any twists) and can't always get out themselves....But with the seatbelt They can undue it fine, but can NEVER get it properly buckled. They either can't get it all the way latched or if it is, I have to straighten it/place it/snug it up , properly.

So for me...I would deffinately give those seatbelts a quick once over if the little ones are buckling themselves......because what if that one time it isn't good and latched.....

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by medaroge

I guess I just dont understand why you wouldn't keep them as safe as you know is possible. The only reason I have read on this thread is that you dont want to buckle/unbuckle them? I dont get it. I'm confused.

No, b/c even techs have chimed in saying that a belt-positioning booster can be just as safe as a 5-pt harness once a child can sit properly. And there are experts that believe that the best way to go is rear-facing into a booster b/c of the way the body moves in a crash - a 5 pt harness allows very little give, and so only the head/neck move forward. In a seat-belt, the impact on your neck/head likely isn't as severe. Not sure if I'm making sense, or necessarily understand it myself, but people don't switch to boosters for convenience purposes without also deciding that the risk isn't increased a ton, yk? Which is why they may switch back to a harnessed seat for long trips - b/c they know their kid will fall asleep and that is when the possibility for increased risk comes into play.

[medaroge]

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

No, b/c even techs have chimed in saying that a belt-positioning booster can be just as safe as a 5-pt harness once a child can sit properly. And there are experts that believe that the best way to go is rear-facing into a booster b/c of the way the body moves in a crash - a 5 pt harness allows very little give, and so only the head/neck move forward. In a seat-belt, the impact on your neck/head likely isn't as severe. Not sure if I'm making sense, or necessarily understand it myself, but people don't switch to boosters for convenience purposes without also deciding that the risk isn't increased a ton, yk? Which is why they may switch back to a harnessed seat for long trips - b/c they know their kid will fall asleep and that is when the possibility for increased risk comes into play.

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

Were his shoulders at or below the top harness slot? Because weight isn't the only factor in when a car seat is outgrown....

His shoulders were slightly below the slot (so he probably would have fit in it for awhile) . It wasn't for him, I just wanted to see if he would fit LOL It was for my 4 year old to be put in his dads suburban since a RFing carseat wouldn't install properly in there. actually come to think of it he had just turned 10 when I put him in there, not 8. He's 11.5 now and he's only 4'2. LOL poor things going to be in a booster seat forever :P

[MJB]

I'm with PP who say that we don't know if harnessing or a booster is safer for kids of appropriate size and maturity. My 4 yr. old (42"/42 lbs) is still not mature enough to say sitting still, with the seatbelt tight, not leaning forward to pick things up, etc. at all times. I did choose to move my older son from a harness that still fit (Husky) to a booster at 6.5 because he was mature enough and wanted to use a booster instead. I also let my 4 yr. old use a booster for short trips in friends or relatives cars, with strict admonishments to sit very still.
My 4 yr. old can't buckle a seatbelt but can buckle and unbuckle the harness on his Radian. It's much easier because the harness doesn't retract while he's trying to fasten it. We'll consider a booster for him this fall, as a kindergartener, and again after K if we decide to keep him harnessed.

[an_aurora]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

Do you pull over everytime you need to reach something that causes you to lean forward? That seems like a broad and excessive statement.

Yes of course I do One of the big signs of booster readiness is an ability to sit still in the booster. If they can't sit still, you can't trust them to be in position in a crash. Using yourself or your DH as an example really doesn't make your child any safer, it just makes everyone else less safe

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by an_aurora

Yes of course I do One of the big signs of booster readiness is an ability to sit still in the booster. If they can't sit still, you can't trust them to be in position in a crash. Using yourself or your DH as an example really doesn't make your child any safer, it just makes everyone else less safe

Using a booster and then retracting the seatbelt over the child renders them pretty much immobile, like a 5 point harness.

Of course, that's if your seatbelts retract in the first place.

You really pull over or have your hubby pull over every time you drop things? I mean, like, everything from dropping your chapstick to dropping a straw to dropping your kleenex?

How do you get anywhere? Or maybe I've just got dropitis.

[an_aurora]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

Using a booster and then retracting the seatbelt over the child renders them pretty much immobile, like a 5 point harness.

Of course, that's if your seatbelts retract in the first place.

You really pull over or have your hubby pull over every time you drop things? I mean, like, everything from dropping your chapstick to dropping a straw to dropping your kleenex?

How do you get anywhere? Or maybe I've just got dropitis.

Locking the seatbelt isn't equal to a 5 pt harness, and it can be pretty uncomfortable for the child, since every time they breathe it gets tighter.

If I'm driving and it's something I can't live without, yes I pull over to pick it up. I can't imagine driving while trying to pick something up off the floor. I don't lean down to pick up my chapstick or whatever, since that's not something that's super imperative to have right that second. I just wait until we stop.

The "cockpit" of a car is designed so everything is within reach of the driver, so they don't have to lean out of the seatbelt.

[Llyra]

I was under the impression (from somebody on MDC) that you weren't supposed to put seatbelts in locking-retractor mode when using a booster.