Tantrums in public places every single time

[Nillarilla]

We are away from home right now and we have been in quite a few stores and pools and restaurants. Almost every place we go my ds (4) has a tantrum and there is a battle. He will not leave the place when it is time even though he has had sufficient warning and has agreed to come nicely and then he decides he is just going to sit down and not come. I've tried playfully suggesting we dance out and if it's a store I ask if he wants to help pay. The waitresses, salespeople, tellers all try to 'help' which only really makes things worse because he gets the attention he wants for the behaviour.
Like this am we were in the store on our way out with what we were buying but had not paid yet. Ds was told that we were done and that he could not have anything else. He was coming and then plunked himself down on the stairs and would not move. I said come on let's go pay for this stuff. I need you to help me carry it up there and give the lady the card. He totally refused, arms crossed lip out, angry face on. The saleslady tried to coax him down. Finally I handed her the stuff and took what was in ds's hands and said "well now we have to leave without buying these things". He of course started thrashing and yelling and I had to carry him out lest anything get broken (It was a very crowded store). The saleslady tried to help again by giving him back what I had just removed from him and handed to her and then followed me when we were leaving. I think she thought I was going to give in and buy them for him. So then I had to pry them out of his hands again. We sat outside while he cried and tantrumed but then dd started to cry and she really needed a nap and she's been sick so I felt like I had to attend to those needs. This meant mostly carrying/dragging my screaming/spitting/kicking ds 6 blocks to the car because he refused to walk. There was no way he was calming down anytime soon.
How could I have handled this better? I feel like I don't want to take him anywhere. But then if I don't take him out how do I teach him this is unacceptable?
His response to everything these days is No I don't want to. Even if it's something fun like a trip or a walk and some days it's non negotiable we have to go especially in a hotel room where we NEED to get out.

[Nansense]

I know you struggles! My now 5yo had daily tantrums since he was 2 until 4.5yo. I just never took the kids anywhere. Since they had pre-school a few days per week I'd save the grocery shopping & errands for those days. I still rarely do, but each month we do an outing to see how it goes. It is getting better. I talk to them about the plan, their behavior and if either acts up, we leave without their apples and carrots, etc...

For fun things like pool, amusements, I'd never go alone, always with dh and that helps. I too had to drag him to the car a few times. He sat in the middle of the parking lot! I was carrying my younger and could only scoop him under his arms, to get him up and scurry to the car. Peolple were looking at us. He was screaming, somehow I talked calm but let it rip in the car about safety. That was probably the last time I took them on errands (a few yrs ago) until now.

To me, going places is a privledge and if the behavior isn't proper, they don't earn it. And they lose it if behavior isn't good. Obviously, if you're on vacation in a hotel room that's different! But I think you handled it right: leaving without things. Was dh with you? One thing that we do and it works (may get some opposition here) is if our kids won't come, we say 'ok, good bye' and start walking away. We DO walk slowly and keep an eye on them and would never do it in a crowded place. But, it works 100%. And I wouldn't do it in a crowded store or parking lot.

Have you talked to him when things have calmed down? I do this and explain how/why he must have good behavior. And I do a step by step of this is how we're going into the store and you wiull walk with me, and we will pay and we will walk out holding hands, etc....

hth!

[woodchick]

My DD1 is almost 4 and has a terrible time leaving anywhere!

One thing that has worked somewhat is to talk to her before we get there and let her know what the 'plan' is. I'll usually say something like this:

"Okay, here's the plan. We're going to go to the farm and see the sheep. We can stay until 2 and then I will say, 'C it is time to head home'. You can say 'okay Mama! I'll say good bye to the sheep!' and then we'll get in the car."

It sounds so dorky, but much of the time it will come time to leave and she'll actually use the words that I had given her earlier! I think sometimes she just needs someone to give her the right words/emotion/plan beforehand.

[madskye]

DD is five now--I promise you, it will end! But we went through this too, and DD would run away from me, through stores and restaurants, which was also awful.

I did decrease the amount we went out for a while, and I let her know that unfortunately, she could not go to the grocery store with mama because the last time we were there she ran away/threw a screaming tantrum.

I also perfected my safety hold--which is basically scooping her up from behind and crossing her arms in front so I could quickly remove her from the situation without being kicked or hit.

The only other thing is to have some kind of incentive to leave place 1. Leave the grocery store to go to the park--even if it's only for a few minutes. Have a special treat like a lollipop in your car, and let them know they can eat it on the way home. But generally, I think it's just a bad little phase and it will pass!

[sunshinejanie]

I remember my dd's going through this and I feel for you!! After I wisened up, I decided that every time they would pull something while we were out we would just immediately stop what we were doing and go home. I know it sounds like a pain in the you know what but, it does work. Once those kiddos realize you mean business and they won't be getting the pay off they are looking for, it will stop.

[Nillarilla]

Thanks for the replies mamas.
Woodchick I like the idea of giving him the words and right way to leave beforehand that might just work with my ds. Especially if we do it every. single. time.
It's definitely nice to know I'm not alone. We do leave right away when there's any misbehaviour and we have done so since the very first time about 1.5 yrs ago. However the behaviour has not stopped or even lessened. I really hope it's a phase that we will get through but probably when he is done with it dd will be into it lol.
I'll have to perfect a safety hold. It's so hard to pick up the thrashing one when I have the LO on my back but at least I wasn't using the stroller or we never would have made it out.

[nd_deadhead]

I have twins, so I understand about not being able to wrestle 2 kids at once!

I think you did the right thing - you said you were going to leave without buying anything, and that's what you did. Being consistent is SO important! It's also really hard.

The big thing that we did at that age, similar to woodchick, was talk about our expectaions up front. "We're going to the park. I expect you to be gentle to other kids, to take turns, and to listen to me". Then I would have them repeat the expectations back to me, to make sure they had heard and understood.

For leaving a place, instead of using time (which they didn't really understand), I would say "You can go down the slide 5 more times, then we're going to the car". I always made sure it was a high enough number that they wouldn't feel especially cheated. It was also good counting practice!

You said that he "always" does this, and I'm sure it feels that way, but make sure you acknowledge the times that he does cooperate - don't make a huge deal out of it, but simply tell him "Thanks for getting out of the pool the first time I asked", or "Thanks for standing quietly in the checkout line". I love the phrase "catch them being good" - I still do this, even though my sons are 15!

At 4, he's still learning as much about what TO do as what not to do. Be sure to phrase things in positive terms, with Do statements instead of Don't statements (That's just to look at, or Keep your hands to yourself, instead of Don't touch that).

Hang in there, it will get better!

[SallyN]

My precocious 3.5yo DD1 has been tantruming a lot lately as well and I've observed that it's often triggered by transitions. So giving her advance notice of activity or location change or departures hasn't helped at all... she'll be on board and agreeable right up to the moment.
Something I've found that helps is to get down on her level, BEFORE the tantrum and elicit her interest in what is coming next. If she's focused more on what we're ABOUT to do, it makes it less disappointing that we're about to stop doing something she was enjoying.
At the same time, do a mental checklist for the common underlying causes of tantrums... hungry? tired? angry? lonely? (yes, he might be *with* you, but has he been getting quality interaction time?)
Also, just as it can be wearing on US to be out of our element (not at home) it's also wearing on kids. Perhaps even moreso as they don't have the perspective or understanding of time to truly understand that it's temporary.

[NellieKatz]

I'll never forget the day that I had a hand-basket full of groceries and my son first pushed down another little boy in the store, making him cry, and then when I went to either get him or talk to him, he RAN AWAY down the aisles and, to make it worse, laughed at me the whole time! I dropped the basket and grabbed him and we left. He still talks about that day! :-)

Luckily, since then, I've learned his triggers and how to better handle things myself, but that whole basket-dropping thing is still a possibility. There are some things I won't tolerate and shopping nightmares is one of them. Good luck to you.

[verde]

How could I have handled this better? I feel like I don't want to take him anywhere. But then if I don't take him out how do I teach him this is unacceptable?

Honestly, I don't get this logic. If he always does it then you should always expect it. This is a classic pick-and-choose-your-battles moment.

I would not take him anywhere in public for a period of time (a few weeks, a month) and when he asks why, explain to him exactly what you just told us here. Then take him on a test run. Make it a one-stop errand and tell him that if he acts out, you will immediately leave. If he's OK try again. If he acts out, no more outings. THAT is the only way to teach him.

Many parents with kids this age just don't take the kids out. This phase will pass but it can sure seem like a loooonnnng time while you're in it.

Good luck!

[Nillarilla]

Originally Posted by verde

Honestly, I don't get this logic. If he always does it then you should always expect it. This is a classic pick-and-choose-your-battles moment.

I would not take him anywhere in public for a period of time (a few weeks, a month) and when he asks why, explain to him exactly what you just told us here. Then take him on a test run. Make it a one-stop errand and tell him that if he acts out, you will immediately leave. If he's OK try again. If he acts out, no more outings. THAT is the only way to teach him.

Many parents with kids this age just don't take the kids out. This phase will pass but it can sure seem like a loooonnnng time while you're in it.

Good luck!

Not taking him out is not an option since I WOH Fulltime and I have to run errands and they cannot all be done when dh is home. I also feel like my expecting it may contribute to the behaviour since I am on edge waiting for him to do something. He is a homebody and probably would not even notice if he did not get to go anywhere for a month. The longer he stays home the harder it is to get him out of the house for anything. So I guess I'm saying that if he is not given the opportunity to act properly how can I respond and praise it. Also I really don't think it's fair to the rest of the family to spend the next couple months or however long it takes him to get over this at home never going anywhere.

[Just1More]

Do you have a stroller that he can ride in?

If he can't behave nicely, then he has to ride in the stoller?

[Nillarilla]

Originally Posted by Just1More

Do you have a stroller that he can ride in?

If he can't behave nicely, then he has to ride in the stoller?

never thought of that that's how I avoid grocery store battles. Thanks!

[CatsCradle]

I understand your frustration, OP, I really do! DD is a little over 3.5 and goes to a Montessori preschool in a different neighborhood - which means that we spend a good 45 minutes each way on the subway and then a bus. There were a few times when she had complete meltdowns on the crowded subway, and she has this very annoying habit of kicking off her shoes and laying on the ground (or train floor or bus floor) when she's upset. This is especially irritating when my hands are full and there are tons of people entering and exiting the train or bus. I used to take the stroller last year, but it is too much to handle now going up and down steps and onto the bus.

I have now developed a method which works most of the time. I always plan ahead to keep her busy: I carry coloring books, reading books, snacks, puppets. The puppets always manage to lift her out of a mood. I know that I look incredibly silly when I whip out a puppet and start doing theatrics, but frankly it works and I don't care what other people think. I found that if I can focus her attention on something besides herself and her obvious misery, that she snaps out of it and starts playing along. Good luck, I know it is hard!