Feel like my head is going to explode...

[neverdoingitagain]

In the past couple days, I have had the misfortune of hearing some doozies of misinformation. I just feel like I need to find some answers just in case I'm missing something.
A couple days ago a friend of mine fb'ed that she was planning on combo-feeding for her sanity. I linked her some pages from kellymom about combo-feeding. A couple of replies later someone told her that her milk might not have enough nutrients in it, which could be why her son is so hungry all the time. Told her to check her milk to see if its missing anything(you know! the old"sniff, scratch &taste" test ) She went on to say that it happened to her and that she ff her second child because her milk wasn't good
I didn't know whether to be furious at such crazy misinformation or start crying that this poor woman was made to believe this.
Today, a commentor on a blog I started reading said that she couldn't bf her children because it couldn't keep them alive. Figures it was because of the low fat diet she was on.

I don't know what to say. Are there any disorders/conditions/diseases/syndromes that could take the nutrients out of your milk? I assume a severe vitamin deficency could, but wouldn't something like that be obvious? I mean, wouldn't there be symptoms in the mother before hand? Am I missing something?
I wish I could just say " CURSE YOU SOCIETY FOR LYING TO THESE WOMEN!!" but.... I can't. I know there are women who have extreme nursing
issues that just cannot breastfeed. Its not society's fault, but an actual physiological issue.
I guess my question is, based on the information you have been given, can anyone point to some very real issue that would cause these women to not be able to successfully breastfeed?

[akind1]

I can't, but so many women are given misinformation by sites, blogs, even doctors! A friend of mine's ped told her that her (mostly) breastfeed baby should be able to STTN at 4-6 months and it was ok to let her cry if she woke up around 1-2 AM, that she's not really hungry. I wanted to slap the doctor! how does he know that the little girl isn't hungry? and not all babies do STTN at that age, most BF babies need to eat through the night as well. (baby gets one bottle of Nutrimigen a day due to bad reflux and milk/dairy allergies, is BF the rest of the time)

DH's aunt combo fed from the first day home from the hospital with her DS, so he would sleep better and longer. this is sad to me, because I'm sure she feels that this is a perfectly normal thing to do. FWIW, my DS slept fine from the very beginnging and was sleeping 5-6 hour stretches at night by 8 weeks, and was EBF. I think it has nothing to do with formula. I think it depends on the baby.

even michelle duggar, who has BF what, 19 kids?, now - says that she makes "skim" milk. I am sure fat content does vary from mom to mom, but I don't know that any mom's milk is bad for baby, unless she herself (or her diet) is deficient in nutrients. Granted I think for premie babies, you need a higher fat food for them to gain weight at the rate they need to.

Many of DH's and my female relatives said they were unable to BF, not enough milk, never came in, just didn't work, etc. This was very discouraging for me when I was pregnant, because I was so committed to BF'ing. I think that they did not receive probably good information or good support when trying to BF. it is a shame! but hopefully we are getting better info, and moms are getting better and more support than in the past. We must press on!

[neverdoingitagain]

Thanks for the reply.
It does drive me nuts how much misinformation is out there. I really want to learn if there are conditions that can cause breast milk to not be enough to feed a baby so that I can give women the correct information. Sometimes the answer is obvious, but when they throw out "my milk doesn't have enough nutrients" or " my milk couldn't keep them alive" I wonder how that could happen.
Does it ever happen? I know I usually come across women who can't make enough milk. I don't recall off-hand if anyone made plenty of milk but made their baby sick due to lack of nutrients (I have heard of babies having rare protien allergies that made them allergic to breast milk though)

[Purple Sage]

I have not read anything about what could make a mother's milk have less nutrients than her baby would require. However, supplementing with formula can and does decrease the mother's supply and THEN can cause the baby to not get enough to eat from mom alone. So I think that people really get things backwards in this regard. Giving formula can actually cause the problem that it's supposed to be solving.

On a side note, my OB when I was pregnant with #3 told me I needed to get a flu shot because if I got the flu while nursing I'd have to stop nursing so I wouldn't give the baby the flu. Seriously? Is this what they're teaching in medical school?

[pbjmama]

First, I hear you and I know that feeling of how can they believe that crap? Some people don't research, or have support systems, or even critical thinking skills.

On to the situations you presented - the first one where the 'milk wasn't good' makes me think of a mom with high lipase milk as a possibility? Of course it is possible that someone just told her that too a friend, relative and yes maybe even a doctor.

The second situation makes me wonder if the baby had slow weight gain? There are alot of possible causes for that from breastfeeding mismanagement to undiagnosed tongue-tie, high palate, birth injury, or just a low supply.

[neverdoingitagain]

Originally Posted by pbjmama

First, I hear you and I know that feeling of how can they believe that crap? Some people don't research, or have support systems, or even critical thinking skills.

On to the situations you presented - the first one where the 'milk wasn't good' makes me think of a mom with high lipase milk as a possibility? Of course it is possible that someone just told her that too a friend, relative and yes maybe even a doctor.

The second situation makes me wonder if the baby had slow weight gain? There are alot of possible causes for that from breastfeeding mismanagement to undiagnosed tongue-tie, high palate, birth injury, or just a low supply.

THANK YOU!! Exactly the kind of info I'm looking for.

[CheriK]

Yes, a very few women with severely restricted diets may have problems with "low nutrient" milk. For example, a woman on a strict vegan diet who consumes no vitamin supplements may be deficient in B12 without any obvious symptoms and produce milk that is also deficient. But this doesn't mean "stop breastfeeding". It means eat foods or take supplements containing B12 (or give vitamins to baby). Milk from mothers in severe famine situations (such as refuge camps) is still adequate for their babies. I think this type of comment is almost always misinformation. The "classic" story is the doctor looking at a pumped sample and saying it's "too low in fat" because there's only a small fat layer. We're growing humans here, not cows. Human milk is supposed to be low in fat. Human babies are supposed to be "hungry all the time", especially at first. This is what sets our bodies up for adequate milk production. Many doctors don't understand this and may tell moms (even today!) that their milk isn't adequate for their baby's needs. It's funny, the women who are told this are more likely to have smaller babies (your baby is small so needs special nutrition) or larger babies (your baby is too big, your milk doesn't have enough calories).

Some women may have conditions that prevent their bodies from producing an adequate milk supply. PCOS is one (polycystic ovarian syndrome). Hypothyroidism can lead to low supply, but is easily correctible, although not always diagnosed (although it should always be checked in a new mom w/ low production!). Postpartum hemmorhage can affect milk production (but only for THAT baby).

Preemies have special needs, and modern medicine can keep babies alive who otherwise would not survive. So, in fact, preemies may need higher nutrient levels than that provided by mom's milk. However, mothers of premature babies produce milk that is different and more appropriate for a preemie than moms of full-term newborns. And again, if a preemie needs additional nutrients, it doesn't mean "stop breastfeeding". There are supplement products designed to be added to breastmilk. Plus, this is controversial. Not all research agrees that preemies need the high level of nutrients and calories, and not every medical professional agrees that rapid growth is the best growth.

Many people expect breastmilk to look like cow's milk, and are surprised that it doesn't. Human milk typically looks thin, often bluish. If a woman has a high lipase activity, her milk may start to smell or taste odd or "soapy" when stored or frozen. You can't look at breastmilk and say it's nutritionally complete.

I guess the only advice I can give you is to stop reading mainstream blogs. It's better for your mental health and blood pressure

[pbjmama]

thought this might interest you
http://sortacrunchy.typepad.com/sort...advocates.html

[neverdoingitagain]

Originally Posted by CheriK

Yes, a very few women with severely restricted diets may have problems with "low nutrient" milk. For example, a woman on a strict vegan diet who consumes no vitamin supplements may be deficient in B12 without any obvious symptoms and produce milk that is also deficient. But this doesn't mean "stop breastfeeding". It means eat foods or take supplements containing B12 (or give vitamins to baby). Milk from mothers in severe famine situations (such as refuge camps) is still adequate for their babies. I think this type of comment is almost always misinformation. The "classic" story is the doctor looking at a pumped sample and saying it's "too low in fat" because there's only a small fat layer. We're growing humans here, not cows. Human milk is supposed to be low in fat. Human babies are supposed to be "hungry all the time", especially at first. This is what sets our bodies up for adequate milk production. Many doctors don't understand this and may tell moms (even today!) that their milk isn't adequate for their baby's needs. It's funny, the women who are told this are more likely to have smaller babies (your baby is small so needs special nutrition) or larger babies (your baby is too big, your milk doesn't have enough calories).

Many people expect breastmilk to look like cow's milk, and are surprised that it doesn't. Human milk typically looks thin, often bluish. If a woman has a high lipase activity, her milk may start to smell or taste odd or "soapy" when stored or frozen. You can't look at breastmilk and say it's nutritionally complete.

I guess the only advice I can give you is to stop reading mainstream blogs. It's better for your mental health and blood pressure

Thank you for the information about the B-12. I'm not looking for situations that may cause a mother to lose supply, just situations/health condition in which their milk is not adequate or even harmful to their infant without drugs involved. So this does give food for thought.

As for the mainstream blog, well its not that mainstream. The woman who said her milk couldn't keep her babies alive was mentioning how she planned to help her daughter as much as possible to breastfeed since she couldn't. Its a good one, I think I'll keep it

Pbjmama: I have been reading posts like those for the past week or so, which is what prompted this question to begin with. Learn the story so true, so true.

[CheriK]

Originally Posted by neverdoingitagain

As for the mainstream blog, well its not that mainstream. The woman who said her milk couldn't keep her babies alive was mentioning how she planned to help her daughter as much as possible to breastfeed since she couldn't. Its a good one, I think I'll keep it

This is written by a woman who's expecting a grandbaby? Important to think about the society in which this woman was trying to breastfeed. If her daughter is having a baby today, then she likely was having children 20-30-40 years ago. Breastfeeding rates were abysmal. And doctors didn't know the importance of breastfeeding, were routinely telling moms things like "your milk is no good" without any evidence to support that, truly believed that science could make a "better" (healthier, more complete) product to feed babies. Ver few women birthed "naturally". Most hospitals routinely separated babies from mothers, and only brought them back every 3-4 hours. They were routinely given pacifiers and bottles from birth. Women who actually successfully breastfed under those circumstances are truly marvelous (go Mom!). Nowdays, we'd attribute breastfeeding failure to poor breastfeeding management (early separation, early supplementation, scheduled feeds).

I really wish the media and the like would pick up the actual point of the studies such as the most recent cost impact of low breastfeeding rates. It's NOT about making moms feel guilty. It's about our society. It's about misinformation and no support from the very resources that SHOULD be giving the best support - the medical establishment. It's about birth practices that undermine breastfeeding. Most breastfeeding failures aren't because women "chose" to not breastfeed, or didn't "try hard enough". They're due to a cascade of circumstances that make breastfeeding difficult if not impossible; from short to no paid maternity leave, to the casual everyday acceptance that formula feeding is "just as good", to routine birth interventions that prevent mom and baby from performing normal behaviors after birth, to lack of breastfeeding support in the hospital, to the free formula sample waiting on the doorstep when you get home. For the majority of women struggling to breastfeed, by the time they find LLL or an IBCLC, it's a long uphill struggle. It's not these women who should feel guilty, it's our society. And those of us who actually are able to breastfeed in spite of all of that should be honoring ourselves.