need help with offering summer break visit

[Avani]

My custody case is a bit out of hand and the judge is not so great and his final decision after four years and my restraining order is that dad gets every other weekend where i live, spring break where he lives and then my ex and i have to meet and confer on the rest of the custody because the judge wants nothing more to do with it. Now keeping in mind i had sole custody with ex having supervised and ex never did the supervised and didn't see the children for three years then showed up at my home and created a horrible scene in front of the kids in which i then secured a restraining order but the judge then ordered my ex would get unsupervised visits even though the above occured. I have a restraining order, we had two mediation appt's already where both mediators said that dad needs supervised visits, needs to stay away from me, we should not convene together on anything, and the dad needs to complete his 52 week batterer's program. The judge then orders me and ex to meet and decide the rest of custody. WTH? I can't meet with the man. No way. I value my life, that's why i got a restraining order.

So my three and five year old don't know their dad. He didn't visit for four months and then suddenly appeared to take the kids for spring break. The three and five year old called me nightly screaming and begging for me to get them. It has been three weeks since they have been home and they are still having major issues. My ex got a 86mph speeding ticket with all the kids in the car, had my 8 year old daughter sleep with her 10 year old brother (whom i trust but still i don't have them sleep together) and his girlfriends 12 year old son. Just not good appropriate things,

Ok, so summer break is at issue. I am supposed to come up with an offer for what he can have for summer break and then work it out with him. My lawyer told me to do it all through email. Otherwise the idiot judge will get to decide and obviously with his background who knows what he would order. What would you mama's offer in light of the above situation? The three year old i am most concerned about, he is having a horrible time readjusting still and freaks out if i mention him going to visit dad again. I want to make a list of things he needs to provide, like separate beds or sleeping accomadations. Maybe more frequent shorter visits for the toddlers especially instead of one long chunk of time. But he is 1200 miles away. He is unemployed(or so he says) and is now 8 months behind in child support. He has been ordered to pay all travel costs. He does not take any of the every other weekend visits. Ever. So the kids have only been with him once at spring break, in a four year period. So this summer break will come at a 3 month absence of visits. He can drive here easily (12hrs) and has several friends in the area to stay with. What do you think i should offer, i am at a loss. Any advice is great.

[MissLotus]

I just don't get it (not that I'm surprised from what I remember about your judge) - he's saying there has to be some sort of summer visitation, yet is not saying what? So who's it up to - since they won't take your word for a final answer? Since there don't seem to be any rules, then: I would not offer any longer than he got on spring break. (I'd actually wondered how that went, and I'm sorry your little ones were so traumatized - did your older ones say how it went aside from the inappropriate sleeping arrangements and erratic driving... both of which are unacceptable, I know!... I mean, does ex at least attempt to be pleasant with them during visits?). I would offer the week and no more - BUT only for the older ones (and maybe less kids going would mean more places available to sleep so they wouldn't have to bunch up?).

I also, and I know this means money, would consult with a new lawyer. I know you were dealt an insanely crummy judge, and that's not your lawyer's fault, but it just seems that with all that ignored supervised visitation stuff and the fact that he doesn't pay child support, a better lawyer could make more of a case out of those things, - or tell you how to take it to the next level. I really would at least set up consultations with different lawyers (because sometimes that's free or less than their normal hourly rate) and see if your case captures someone's interest because it's pretty wild, the things your ex has gotten away with.

Meanwhile, yeah, I would only offer a super-minimal summer vacation "based on the children's experiences". And if you have anyone to stay with where ex is, say you'll take them all down an additional time during the summer - this way your little ones can visit him but you will be there, and it looks like you're making an effort to meet him halfway (I know, not that it should be your job! but just anything to not have your younger ones go through that again so soon). Thankfully at least he isn't doing the every-other-weekend thing.

[Avani]

Exactly, the judge ordered the spring break and every other weekend but left any holidays and summer out of the custody order and said it would be up to my ex and I to hash out. Like i said i have a restraining order which under CA law is supposed to mean that party does not get much visitation and especially unsupervised. Personally i think the kids should never have had to go with him for Spring Break. He should have had to comply with court order and complete the 52 week batterer's program before ever getting any unsupervised visits per the court order back in 2007. Also he should have had to work his way up to a whole week by visiting other times. Letting the kids get to know him again. But no. So now he will go another three months without visiting and then wants summer break. I am not going to talk with him. I have a restraining order for a reason, 2 mediators said the man shouldn't have unsupervised visits for a reason. In light of all that i do know i am supposed to be reasonable with my ex with visitation of the kids to show how much i want the kids to be involved with their dad (puke)...I also know i should be protecting my kids. So make the judge happy and give my ex some summer vacation time or protect the kids and make it hard for ex. If i don't give him some summer vacation time then he has to file a motion to modify the existing order. My concern would be the judge giving him way more time then i would be ok with. But mediation would be mandatory so maybe another mediator could make another point of how ex has broken all court rules. Also maybe by the time he files the motion, gets a hearing, we have to do mediation first maybe summer break would be over (whoohoo, stalling could work).

I did meet with a lawyer recently who said he was shocked by this judges orders but then he said he has also seen drug addicts get custody of kids. It's like you never know what will happen with judges.

Maybe i could request he enroll in the batterer's program first, provide separate sleeping arrangements for kids, provide proof he can financially provide for kids(since he is unemployed and is 8 months behind on child support), do more frequent visits so the younger kids aren't so traumatized or do young kids for 7 days and the older kids for 14 days. Even 7 days is too long for the little ones but, i don't know better then the full month he is requesting. So maybe 7 days in June and 7 days in July. I could drive down there and stay but it is a 12 hr drive and i have a 9 month old baby which equals a very difficult drive for me and the rest of the kids when dealing with a screaming baby for hours. Or again i could just wait it out and see if he files the motion and maybe it would all get pushed back for a year.

[LoveOhm]

I would not offer any time for the summer - worst case let him initiate and ask you with some sort of proposal......

If that is not your style then I would offer one week for the summer conditional on him honoring his current visitation of EOW. IF HE DOES NOT SHOW FOR HIS EOW VISITS THEN HE ELECTS TO NOT HAVE THE CHILDREN IN THE SUMMER. Since he won't show up EOW = Problem solved

Good luck Avani!

[meemee]

does the case go back to the same judge?

what does your lawyer say?

what happens if what you offer your ex does not like?

would the judge step in and decide?

this SUCKS avani. i have no idea what to say. all that i can think of is TG your 3 year old will have other siblings there for support.

i can see this not going down well. ex is going to say he has no money for frequent visits. and its incovenient that he stays at friends house.

offer him a week first. then two weeks with you. then another week or two. instead of a month as he may want.

he has already shown EOW is not worth it for him. he wants chunks of time to save on travelling costs.

if you didnt have this judge then things would be different.

would u be willing to do the driving on one trip. say he comes picks them up and then you bring them back? how would that sound? however you would be setting a precedence here doing this and i am not sure if you want to do that.

[Avani]

Same judge, i'm sure it would be me offering, him turning down, me offereing something different, him being difficult etc. He claims to be unemployed yet he advertises for his own landscaping/irrigation company. Now he says he is in college after a 4 year stint of being unemployed. He is going to a community college, which in CA the tuition is covered by the state, which means he is getting at least $3500 per semester of extra grant money that wouldn't go towards any school expenses, where is that money going? When he took me back to court last year and the judge ordered he could have visits with his mom watching him he came to every single visit during our hearings. So 5 visits of him driving back and forth for 1200 miles in a 3 month period with him only being allowed a 4 hr visit in a two week time frame. How did he have the money to drive back and forth then? And when our hearings ended he stopped visiting. Until four months later he got them for spring break. And since he hasn't paid a single penny of child support in nearly a year why doesn't he have any money to visit at all. How does he support his girlfriend and new baby? When he comes here he actually stays in the most expensive hotel here. I wonder how. If i were a judge i would add all these things up but i'm just the mother of the kids who has solely provided for them and raised them and attempted to keep them safe from him. What do i know? My lawyer says i can offer him a week and go from there or just sit back and wait for him to file a motion, if he files a motion. I just don't know. i haven't offered anything yet. I guess that kind of tells me i am waiting to see if he files. It would be nice if by the time he filed and by the time we had the hearing that summer would be over. At least by next summer the kids would be older. My belief is that my ex should have to provide proof he has completed the 52 week batterers program like our original court order said before he is even allowed to ask for a modification of child custody. And he should start doing more frequent visits so that the younger kids can establish a relationship with him before just taking them for long visits away from their primary parent. Oh and that he should pay child support. He has never paid his share of any of the medical expenses either, and he just keeps getting away with it all. While i continue to take full responsibilty for everything.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Can you appeal the custody decision? To a higher court? It sounds like you might have an "abuse of discretion" claim (a super high standard, but its worth a try).

I also agree with you waiting for a proposal from him, and trying to make it contingent upon him using the visitation he has - it sounds totally reasonable to me.

[Avani]

I would love to appeal but from what i understand appealing is very difficult and very spendy.

He harrassed the kids all during their last phone conversation to get me on the phone to discuss summer visits. I kept saying i was laying the baby down to sleep and couldn't talk. I am not ok with talking to him about anything. What is the point? He wants half of summer and i will not agree to that. It would be an ugly fight. Anyhow he called my lawyer and i told her to offer one week in June and one week in July in order to facilitate more frequent contact for the children since they barely know him. He does not take his every other weekend visits so the kids have seen him once for that spring break visit. So if he disagrees he will have to take it to court to modify our existing custody order. What dumb judge orders every other weekend and just spring break only to leave me to discuss summer and holidays with him. That's why i have a restraining order. Seriously messed up.

[Super~Single~Mama]

It is difficult, and it can be spendy. BUT - it really sounds like you have grounds based on the RO and the judge requiring you to contact him. Thats ridiculous. I would ask your lawyer about appealing and try to come up with a lawyer team that will help you. Maybe a family law firm in your area has some lawyer's that need some pro bono credit.

[MissLotus]

Originally Posted by thyra

It is difficult, and it can be spendy. BUT - it really sounds like you have grounds based on the RO and the judge requiring you to contact him. Thats ridiculous. I would ask your lawyer about appealing and try to come up with a lawyer team that will help you. Maybe a family law firm in your area has some lawyer's that need some pro bono credit.

I agree! I would look into appealing! (I know, easy for me to say from my computer chair.) But your case is just THAT ridiculous, surely any other judge with half a brain would see how absurd it is that visitation is forced upon you, and left for you to figure out with someone you have a restraining order against!!! And how this guy (your ex) doesn't have to complete any of the stuff he was ordered to do - oh yeah, and doesn't have to pay child support (?!) yet strolls in and gets unsupervised visitation. I'm so glad you met with another lawyer (although he didn't sound of much help) - girl, keep going. Some day I want to come on in to this forum and read that justice has finally been served! I think you've got such a good case to appeal, if ever anyone did.

[Avani]

I guess it won't hurt to call around. The one problem is i am far away from the actual hearings. My pro bono lawyer has been working for four years on this case there where my ex is. I would have to call and do phone consultations. Today we had a preliminary hearing on the contempt we filed against him for the 8 months of back support he owes me. He asked for a court appointed attorney and we go back to court June 9th. Who knows maybe he will be in jail during the kids summer break. We are up to nearly $5000 in back support, i don't know how he plans to afford them all summer.

[Avani]

Have some good news from yesterdays preliminary hearing in regards to the contempt against him for not paying child support. The judge told him he could pay up or get 5 days in jail. He is currently 8 months behind but we have 5 charges filed. My lawyer offered to pull the contempt charges if he paid the back pay. He said he couldn't so our next hearing is June 9th. If ex doesn't agree with my offer for summer visits and if he chooses to modify our existing custody order he will not be able to be seen for that hearing until after the contempt charges are taken care of. Which if he doesn't pay up and it goes to trial it could be 6-8 months. I offered him a week. Honestly i don't think he should get any more visits until he completes the original stuff but we have to appear reasonable to that stupid judge. I wonder if i'll final get some support! Yay for a judge(not the same judge from the custody) getting harsh on a man who pays nothing. My lawyer said my ex started crying when he heard he would get jail time.

[PoppyMama]

He cried. seriously.

I hope he runs and hides.

[LoveOhm]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

He cried. seriously.

I hope he runs and hides.

: LOL!

[Avani]

Well i'm sure he thought he could get away with not paying support forever. The judge we have had really empowered him to feel like he could get away with anything. According to my lawyer he shed big crocodile tears upon hearing about the jail time. This is only for 5 months and he already is up to 9 months as of this month. That is $6000. For someone that hasn't paid a penny to support his children at all in 4 years now, $6000 is nothing.

My lawyer and I drafted a letter to him stating we are very interested in discussing summer time visitation with him and would like to come up with an appropriate time for such young children. He was granted every other weekend visits which he has never utilized therefore the children have very little of a relationship with him and we do not think the whole summer would be appropriate for the children. We also requested proof of his completing the 52 week batterer's program that he was ordered to do as of April 2007 and in which the original order stated he could not modify child custody until he had given me proof of completion of that program. (which he hasn't even started) So now finally the tides start turning once again in favor for the children. They will finally get some child support and if their father chooses he will get the help he was supposed to get through the dv program and he could if he chooses to start re-establishing a relationship with them by following the court orders of frequent and consistent contact. I wonder will he run and hide or step up and start paying!?

[MissLotus]

Wow, I'm glad something is finally biting him in the butt! And I hope it's a chain reaction that affects everything else and that he leaves you alone at last! Oh, and that he gives you the money you and the kids deserve.

So glad a judge finally showed him there are some consequences. Is there any way to bring all the other stuff to this judge's attention (or could the judge even have jurisdiction over that?)

[Super~Single~Mama]

So is this a new judge altogether?? Does this judge replace the old judge? Or is this judge only seeing you for the contempt charges but not the custody stuff??

Did you ask about getting the custody order changed? I think thats important. Even if its just to meet with your lawyer and go over pros/cons/risks/benefits.

I'm glad he's getting his feet held to the fire! it's about time!

[Avani]

Different judge because this contempt is criminal not family law. I need to call around for consults because i am pretty far away from where the case is. I could either attempt to transfer the case here where i am or try to get another lawyer down there. It may be easier to get a pro bono lawyer down there being a bigger city and all. But i need to network. This whole thing could shift things for the better. He is going to need to start paying child support or go to jail. This will be huge for him. He can either become responsible and pay support and visit or disappear.

[MissLotus]

I don't know if I totally understand the whole thing, but I don't think I'd try to shift the case to your location - keep it where it is, if that's where they're finally showing your ex what's what! It's too bad you can't shift the rest of the case down there, too!

At least, too, it would be another thing in your favor with your current, useless judge - at least you could say to him, "Judge Whoever felt that ex's actions are not in the childrens' best interests, and jailed him." And don't get me started on the fact that he cried. There can't be enough to express my feelings on that.