Husband encourages dangerous play - Page 3

[Shellie]

12+ feet onto concrete? At 3yo?

While I'm all for letting kids explore their physically limits, I totally agree that there is a difference between how high a 3yo could make herself go on her own and how high/fast a 6'2" man could make her go.

It's the parents' responsibility to exercise judgment wrt safety. A 3yo does not often have the judgment to do so. This situation is potentially unsafe and if it were my husband/daughter, the swing would be gone. My dh and I have few things we disagree on but we do allow each other veto rights on things we feel very strongly about. In this situation, my dh would understand that a 12+ foot fall onto concrete onto her HEAD would be potentially life-threatening but even if he didn't, I would have veto power. I don't take veto power lightly and very, very rarely use it.

[liliaceae]

I haven't read all the responses, but that sounds extremely dangerous, and since he's completely disregarding your feelings, I'd cut the swing down. And if he puts it up again, I'd cut it down again.

[earthmama369]

I asked dh what he thought and he came back with a resounding "it depends." His "guy opinion" is that with some kids, that height over concrete would be a really bad idea. But with some kids, it would be fine. Is it within the realm of wearing a helmet or crossing the street with your grandmother? Not at all. But Mom and Dad probably know their child best and if there haven't been any problems, then this may be a kiddo who can handle it.

...That said, my mother's heart quakes at the thought of my 3-year-old swinging that high over concrete. I'd be ok with a grassy landing, but concrete carries too high a risk for me from a 12- to 14-foot drop.

[laughymama]

The one thing that really stuck out to me here and made my heart pound was the concrete.

I would not be comfortable with concrete under any part of the swinging area, no matter what the age of the child.

[mamazee]

I would read the swing safety thing above, and if it fails those standards, just cut it down. I would look at it objectively when considering that, and then show him the site that gives that information.

However I do disagree with some posters that, basically, the most cautious parent should win in every disagreement. That both parents have to agree for a child to do something, and that the default is that it doesn't happen. I think the default should be somewhere in the middle. So while I would get rid of the swing if it is objectively unsafe, I would relax a bit in general. Oh, I would also get a brace for the furniture she's climbing. Even if your dh doesn't allow it, if she's a climber it might happen, and the risk is too high.

[mommy212]

I try not to be too worried. It is dad's job to push our children out of the nest, and our job to be the nest for them to come back to. We can't keep our children from getting hurt and playing. I would ask him not to push so high, but I would try to look away when it is happening. Let kids be kids.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by patricegonzales

And its even worse if people are around to see. If someone says "Oh my!" or "I cant believe she is doing that!" He encourages it even more!

If not for this, I'd say he was just confident of her abilities. Because of this part though, it seems like he's trying to use her to show off. Like having a kid at risk of death or injury makes him a tough guy or some BS.

So I'd call him on it. "Why does it matter to your ego to have dd do things that could kill or maim her?"

As for the swing specifically, there should be a way to mount a rigid structure to the tree branch that doesn't swing and then hang a more reasonable swing from that, but it'd probably need an expert of some kind to do the work and be sure it can take the kids' weight. So, put a harnessed seat on the ends of the ropes. E.g. a full support seat (Another advantage to that seat is that they *can't* go as high as a regular swing seat because of the double chain path.)

[mamadelbosque]

Umm.. my DS1 is 3 too... and he's not capable of pumping his legs and 'swinging' like an adult/older child yet, so I push him on swings, all.the.time. It sounds like some of you think that is 'wrong' cause you can't do it himself?? Thats crazy. I mean, seriously? If your kid can't do something themselves, then they just shouldn't do it at all??

I'd let'm be. Really. Unless your DH is pushing her while she's yelling to stop/she's done, she's obviously comfy, and having a blast and knows to hold on tight... so whats the worry? That she's going to let go and go flying? Sure. Thats possible. But its also possible she's going to trip and fall down your stairs and break her neck that way too. We can't protect our kids from every danger. Its just not possible. And having fun, while playing outside with dad? Why stop it? I mean, really... would you really rather her be bored sitting inside???

[sapphire_chan]

The safety guidelines won't help because they're assuming a normal swing length, such as on a commercial swing set, or on a park play ground. But you could do a simple proportion "a normal swing has a 10' chain, ours has a 24' chain, so we need to have 15' of soft surface on all sides"

[blessedwithboys]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

I'd consider carefully what message it sends buying a developmentally normal child a swing seat designed to allow those with special needs to swing safely. I think i'd rather my kid fell off a swing once or twice than grew up thinking i felt she wasn't capable of being trusted to use such a basic play item without radically specialised equipment.

hmmm, i guess i never thought of it that way. would a 3/4/5 yo knwo it was adaptive equipment? we have an all-abilities public park nearby and there are two swings designed like lazy boy recliners that hold up to several hundred pounds and all the moms LOVE to use them. so does my 8yo ds. well, he doesnt love to, but he has some very minor vestibular issues and its the only swing he will even attempt. but i am pretty much completely NT and i would rather use the adaptive swing any day!

[PreggieUBA2C]

I allow my dc to free-range on a rural wilderness property. I trust their instincts and see how much they learn by exercising their freedom. BUT when daddy is involved, I watch more carefully. He did not develop his instincts as a child and with ADD, tends to not be as aware of how his actions impact others as I am, for instance, so when he plays with our dc, I do have much more to say about it than I ever do when dc choose their play on their own.

OP's child's instincts may be fully intact, but her dp's may not be, and it really has absoluetly nothing to do with his love for her. My dp would give his life for any of our dc, but his choices in play have resulted in injuries more frequently than I care to enumerate.

And here's the seemingly contradictory thing: it's my dp who freaks out when he sees how far away they roam and what they do without him being nearby to rescue them. I don't even flinch. They know what they are doing.

I think that it is important to really examine what is going on and recognise that some people need to be shown what they haven't understood themselves, such as with my dp; we have had many discussions wherein I have explained exactly how much is okay and where the line is for safety in the play he engages in with our children. Over the last nearly two years, he has drastically improved because of our discussions and his own observations. Before that, his actions were sometimes very dangerous and did result in our dc being injured and they have a few resultant scars- not each, but in total.

Nobody in my home is exempt from self-reflection and improvement, regardless of age, title, expressed love or enjoyment. It seems like a non-sequitur to suggest that the situation is fine because the father loves the daughter and they are having fun. My dad had fun with a book of matches until they caught fire and burned his family's home to the ground. That was a shock to him. He honestly had not anticipated the reality of spreading fire and has not to this day told his parents that he was the one who did it.

Not everyone develops a sense of reasonable risk, for myriad reasons. My dc free-range because I think that it is healthy and I see that they are developing a very intricate system of risk-analysis incidental to their exploration. Not many children have that experience and many don't develop their instincts fully as a result, and they still become parents and love their children no less.

OP, if you are having a difference of opinion, then that is one thing, but if you are observing an imbalance of risk-taking and risk-analysis, then that is another. I would do everything I could to retain that play for them though, which for me would include a harness-style swing, something similar to what is worn for rock climbing. It isn't about a lack of trust in your dds abilities. It's just that when we climb or swing at great heights, there is a risk to our safety and so we wear this gear. No judgments, just sense. Of course, you know what the situaton is and I may be imagining a different set-up than you have, but if there is a way to make it safe without spoiling it, then I would take the intiative to do that.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

I'd consider carefully what message it sends buying a developmentally normal child a swing seat designed to allow those with special needs to swing safely. I think i'd rather my kid fell off a swing once or twice than grew up thinking i felt she wasn't capable of being trusted to use such a basic play item without radically specialised equipment.

The full support swings at one of our local parks are the most frequently used. All the kids from 18months to 6 or 7 years old flock to them because they are comfortable. The tacit rule, of course, is that if someone who needed the swing came, then toddlers would be moved to the infant swings and older kids to the regular swings, but thus far that hasn't come up while we've been at the park.

[Adsullata]

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C

I allow my dc to free-range on a rural wilderness property. I trust their instincts and see how much they learn by exercising their freedom. BUT when daddy is involved, I watch more carefully. He did not develop his instincts as a child and with ADD, tends to not be as aware of how his actions impact others as I am, for instance, so when he plays with our dc, I do have much more to say about it than I ever do when dc choose their play on their own.

OP's child's instincts may be fully intact, but her dp's may not be, and it really has absoluetly nothing to do with his love for her. My dp would give his life for any of our dc, but his choices in play have resulted in injuries more frequently than I care to enumerate.

And here's the seemingly contradictory thing: it's my dp who freaks out when he sees how far away they roam and what they do without him being nearby to rescue them. I don't even flinch. They know what they are doing.

I think that it is important to really examine what is going on and recognise that some people need to be shown what they haven't understood themselves, such as with my dp; we have had many discussions wherein I have explained exactly how much is okay and where the line is for safety in the play he engages in with our children. Over the last nearly two years, he has drastically improved because of our discussions and his own observations. Before that, his actions were sometimes very dangerous and did result in our dc being injured and they have a few resultant scars- not each, but in total.

Nobody in my home is exempt from self-reflection and improvement, regardless of age, title, expressed love or enjoyment. It seems like a non-sequitur to suggest that the situation is fine because the father loves the daughter and they are having fun. My dad had fun with a book of matches until they caught fire and burned his family's home to the ground. That was a shock to him. He honestly had not anticipated the reality of spreading fire and has not to this day told his parents that he was the one who did it.

Not everyone develops a sense of reasonable risk, for myriad reasons. My dc free-range because I think that it is healthy and I see that they are developing a very intricate system of risk-analysis incidental to their exploration. Not many children have that experience and many don't develop their instincts fully as a result, and they still become parents and love their children no less.

OP, if you are having a difference of opinion, then that is one thing, but if you are observing an imbalance of risk-taking and risk-analysis, then that is another. I would do everything I could to retain that play for them though, which for me would include a harness-style swing, something similar to what is worn for rock climbing. It isn't about a lack of trust in your dds abilities. It's just that when we climb or swing at great heights, there is a risk to our safety and so we wear this gear. No judgments, just sense. Of course, you know what the situaton is and I may be imagining a different set-up than you have, but if there is a way to make it safe without spoiling it, then I would take the intiative to do that.

This. Especially the part I've bolded. And, the swing is OVER CONCRETE.

I'm a risk-taker, an adrenaline junky. I've jumped off bridges and cliffs into lakes and rivers, lots of river rafting, and have rock climbed. But I don't jump without scouting the landing, don't river raft without a life jacket, and don't rock climb without ropes and harnesses. I wouldn't swing at a height that was the same ratio taller than me (as your swing) over concrete, because it's just a stupid risk. There's multiple good reasons why playgrounds have not been made this way in years and that old ones that were are removed and replaced. That and climbing bookcases just makes me think of the Darwin awards.

You can have an awful lot of fun and adrenaline rush while still taking important precautions. Some of the pps' suggestions for modifying the swing for example.

I also find it disconcerting that he disregarded your concern, even after you were in tears about it. If it were me, I'd want him to at least address that and not be dismissive of me.

[Jessy1019]

Originally Posted by elmh23

The only one of those things that you listed that I'd talk to my husband about is the book cases (unless they're built in and very sturdy) because of the tipping.

Agreed, that was the only thing on the list that made me go, "yikes!!!"

The swing sounds like so much fun, I want to try it!

[Violet2]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

The safety guidelines won't help because they're assuming a normal swing length, such as on a commercial swing set, or on a park play ground. But you could do a simple proportion "a normal swing has a 10' chain, ours has a 24' chain, so we need to have 15' of soft surface on all sides"

Actually the safety guidelines do apply re: the surface. No one should be swinging over concrete. Period.

V

[eepster]

Originally Posted by Violet2

Actually the safety guidelines do apply re: the surface. No one should be swinging over concrete. Period.

V

I think she was talking about the guideline that say 6 foot radius of soft surfacing around the swing is sufficient. If they currently measured the grass around the swing they might find it extended 6 feet in all direction.

The problem with applying this guideline to this swing is that since the swings ropes/chains are so long, the swing can travel outside the 6 foot radius. There fore for this swing, they may need 10 feet or 15 feet of soft surfacing. Of course it is probably impossible to achieve this since they can not move either the tree or the side walk.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by liliaceae

I haven't read all the responses, but that sounds extremely dangerous, and since he's completely disregarding your feelings, I'd cut the swing down. And if he puts it up again, I'd cut it down again.

Well on the flip side, the OP is completely disregarding her dh's feelings. If my dh destroyed something that I enjoyed doing with my child like you suggested, there would be hell to pay.

That swing sounds awesome. As long as the rope is not frayed (or is replaced if it is frayed), then I think the OP needs to let it go.

[sapphire_chan]

Sorry to bring it up again, but no one seems to be addressing the fact that the OP's dh encourages more and more unsafe behavior when he has an audience. To me, that means this behavior isn't about their child and what is really safe for her in the dh's best judgment.

That is where I am critical of the situation. I'm not critical of the dh's ability to judge his own child's safety, but critical of his apparent choice to show-off for an audience at the expense of using his judgment.

It also makes me suspicious of why he refuses to discuss the OP's comfort level. How hard would it be to say "I think it is safe because she's very good at holding on. But I know the concrete bothers you, so let's look into putting a softer surface down"? It wouldn't make the swing any less fun to have an okay surface underneath, or to wear a harness, or to wear a helmet, so not being willing to discuss options to increase safety means he's being as dismissive of the OP's judgment about her child's safety as people are claiming she's doing to his.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by mamadelbosque

Umm.. my DS1 is 3 too... and he's not capable of pumping his legs and 'swinging' like an adult/older child yet, so I push him on swings, all.the.time. It sounds like some of you think that is 'wrong' cause you can't do it himself?? Thats crazy. I mean, seriously? If your kid can't do something themselves, then they just shouldn't do it at all??

I'd let'm be. Really. Unless your DH is pushing her while she's yelling to stop/she's done, she's obviously comfy, and having a blast and knows to hold on tight... so whats the worry? That she's going to let go and go flying? Sure. Thats possible. But its also possible she's going to trip and fall down your stairs and break her neck that way too. We can't protect our kids from every danger. Its just not possible. And having fun, while playing outside with dad? Why stop it? I mean, really... would you really rather her be bored sitting inside???

Do you push your child 12 feet high? Over concrete?

I don't think the alternative here is sitting inside watching tv.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Sorry to bring it up again, but no one seems to be addressing the fact that the OP's dh encourages more and more unsafe behavior when he has an audience. To me, that means this behavior isn't about their child and what is really safe for her in the dh's best judgment.

That is where I am critical of the situation. I'm not critical of the dh's ability to judge his own child's safety, but critical of his apparent choice to show-off for an audience at the expense of using his judgment.

It also makes me suspicious of why he refuses to discuss the OP's comfort level. How hard would it be to say "I think it is safe because she's very good at holding on. But I know the concrete bothers you, so let's look into putting a softer surface down"? It wouldn't make the swing any less fun to have an okay surface underneath, or to wear a harness, or to wear a helmet, so not being willing to discuss options to increase safety means he's being as dismissive of the OP's judgment about her child's safety as people are claiming she's doing to his.

Agreed.