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Husband encourages dangerous play - Page 5

post #81 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by patricegonzales View Post
I dont think you are being disrespectful

However, I dont think that you read my post clearly, or perhaps you are assuming too much from it.

Possibly
I just put myself in that position and imagined my reaction to the situation. Full disclosure: I'm the overly cautious type.

Good luck working it out!
post #82 of 110
I wouldn't let my toddler swing over concrete, period. And I'm pretty laid back about "letting kids be kids," at least compared to many parents I know. We let her climb and swing and run around as she chooses, but there's a difference between "letting kids be kids" and knowingly and unncecessarily putting them in potentially fatal situations.

Just yesterday, dh and dd were at the park and he was pushing her on the tire swing. Dd lost her grip when the swing was at its highest point, and she slid out of the swing. She fell onto her knees, scraped them both, and banged her forehead on the ground--soft dirt covered with a thick layer of mulch. She was way lower than 10 feet, and still ended up with a scrape and a big goose egg on her forehead. I shudder to think what would have happened if she had been over concrete.

She broke her leg just before she turned three, and that is NOT something I want her to ever have to go through again. Twelve weeks in a cast (including over her birthday) is not a "rite of passage."
post #83 of 110
Is there any compromises? Is there any places that you can hang a safe swing?

You can NOT budge on your view of unsafe but also make the swinging and pushing levels safer.
post #84 of 110
I say let your dd and dh have their fun. yes he is being dissrespectful of your feelings but perhaps he feels you are also not being respectful of his feelings or trusting him with his own child. He is capable of making this decission. And him and dd are bonding and having a great time. let them do their thing.
post #85 of 110
Time after time we talk about a mom's responsibilty to protect her baby. We talk about it over in the case against circ all the time. When grandparents want to take our kids places in cars with out car seats, everybody is up in arms.

The OP here has a reasonable fear that this activity could result in serious injury. I would say it's just as likely, if not more so, to end in serious injury as a car accident when the grandparents take the kids for a short ride to the park with out a carseat.

Why is this situation OK just b/c the dad loves his DD and b/c she enjoys it?
post #86 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post
Time after time we talk about a mom's responsibilty to protect her baby. We talk about it over in the case against circ all the time. When grandparents want to take our kids places in cars with out car seats, everybody is up in arms.

The OP here has a reasonable fear that this activity could result in serious injury. I would say it's just as likely, if not more so, to end in serious injury as a car accident when the grandparents take the kids for a short ride to the park with out a carseat.

Why is this situation OK just b/c the dad loves his DD and b/c she enjoys it?
Why do the mom's fears trump the dad's confidence? This isn't circing, which has a wealth of statistical evidence behind it showing the risk vs benefit to the newborn means it's a bad idea.

Why is it mom's job to protect her children from their FATHER, who is not abusive or inattentive, and so far hasn't shown that he is careless (the child has not fallen and has not been harmed)?

I don't think it's solely my job to protect my babies, it's their father's job too. And we have to do it together, not in spite of one another.
post #87 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
Why do the mom's fears trump the dad's confidence?
If this were a dad who was objecting to something that the mom was doing and it seemed like a legitimate concern then I would say it was dad's duty to protect his child. It's not a question of whether moms have more say on safety or if dads ave more say about safety, it is any parent duty to protect their child. Since this is a site called "mothering" we just happen to get more moms seeking advice than dads seeking advice, but if the OP was a dad I would say the exact same thing about it being his duty to protect his DD.

Quote:
This isn't circing, which has a wealth of statistical evidence behind it showing the risk vs benefit to the newborn means it's a bad idea.
Some one did actually post a link to an article with statistics and guidelines, but I'll provide more.

Here is an article about play ground safety. Some highlights from it:

"Faulty equipment, improper surfaces, and careless behavior are just a few of the hazards of playgrounds — each year, more than 200,000 kids are treated in hospital ERs for playground-related injuries."

Remember the swing in question goes over concrete:

"A proper playground surface is one of the most important factors in reducing injuries — and the severity of injuries — that occur when kids fall from equipment. The surface under the playground equipment should be soft enough and thick enough to soften the impact of a child's fall."

The OP says the swing goes up about 12 feet.

"No surfacing materials are considered safe if the combined height of playground and the child (standing on the highest platform) is higher than 12 feet."

Finally this article says

"Swings are the most frequent source of childhood injuries from moving equipment on a playground."

Here's a hand book from CSPC, here is another article. There are many more articles, and they all agree that concrete is an unacceptable surface to have under swings, and that 12 feet is the point at which equipment becomes unacceptably dangerous no matter what surface in underneath.

Just b/c nothing has happened yet doesn't mean the situation is safe, it just means they have been lucky.

The fact that the child has been hurt twice while just going for a walk actually would make me feel even more strongly about the swings. When she falls, as all kids do, and she is just her own hight somewhere around 3 feet tall, she needed a couple of stitches. The swing is taking her head over 4 times as high, the injury from that much greater a hight would result a much much more severe injury. Children falling is inevitable, but from over 12 feet on to concrete is not.
post #88 of 110
I think it is kind of crazy to take a swing down because a child fell and needed stitches on a walk. That is like "you broke your wrist walking home from school, so you never get to go horseback riding again!". Irrational.

Ultimately it's down to the OP and her family what happens, perhaps the swing could be moved or perhaps it will be taken down, or maybe nothing will be changed. The fact is that none of those studies you cited say that the child will be injured, horribly or otherwise, from using this swing. She might be. She might be injured walking down the street, but the OP doesn't seem to be considering, despite 2 injuries from falling when walking, getting the kid a wheelchair to avoid the "danger" of walking injuries.

It is perfectly fine for you to think this is far too dangerous and me to think it isn't, not everyone will agree, the point is only that the OP and her husband need to reach agreement.
post #89 of 110
I haven't read all the responses, so I apologize if I'm repeating anything that's been said.

I wouldn't be ok with this particular setup, and I tend to be pretty laid back. My toddler was learning to climb the steps and while I watched, I didn't 'save him' when he slid, for example. I think kids need to challenge their boundaries to learn where they are.

However, our job as parents is to allow them to do that in situations where a broken wrist or skinned knee is about the worst that could happen. A fall from more than twice the child's height is a fall that I, were I to respond with an ambulance, would bring out a backboard and cervical collar for as there is a very real risk of spinal injury. Put that fall over concrete and it's no longer a risk, but a significant probability.

I would remove the swing immediately, and invest in a safer playscape.
post #90 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by confustication View Post
A fall from more than twice the child's height is a fall that I, were I to respond with an ambulance, would bring out a backboard and cervical collar for as there is a very real risk of spinal injury. Put that fall over concrete and it's no longer a risk, but a significant probability.
It's actually twice the dad's height, not the child's.

So it's a child possibly falling onto concrete from at least 12 feet. How anyone can think this is reasonable is beyond me.
post #91 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
The fact is that none of those studies you cited say that the child will be injured, horribly or otherwise, from using this swing.
Of course none of them say that. I haven't seen any studies that say an infant will be injured if they ride in a car without a carseat, it just greatly increases the risk involved. I've seen plenty of people who drive around with their kids loose in the car, and I'm sure most of the time nothing happens, that doesn't make it safe. Sometimes kids who are properly strapped in a properly installed carseat are injured in car crashes, sometimes horribly, and some even die.

It's about looking at necessary risks versus easily preventable and unnecessary risks.
post #92 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by patricegonzales View Post
I also had a chance to talk this over with my counselor and found a couple other views:
I am over-protective and over-cautious. By not bending on this, DH may be trying to teach DD not to be filled with anxiety or fear about, well, life and play. DH father was very over-protective and extremely cautious in his life and this cost him a connection with his son as well as caused a lot of regret in his (DH fathers') later years. DH may be trying to not repeat this with his daughter. His laughing in my face and being dismissive of my feelings may be his way of trying to show me: "See, she did it, and shes ok, its ok, lifes ok, you are ok!!" It may be his way of trying to help me not repeat his childhood with our daughter.
His showing off by pushing his daughter harder (literally and figuratively) when people are around could be his way of proving to others (himself, really) that he is not his father.

Now that I think I know where the feelings are coming from I need to put them aside and evaluate if the swing is really a dangerous activity or not.....and the opinions seem to be pretty split here! lol
Your DH should not use your DD to work through his issues with his father. The swing over concrete is dangerous. Climbing bookcases? Completely ridiculous. Besides being dangerous if your DD ever decides to climb bookcases that aren't mounted to the wall, it's inappropriate behavior. Furniture and books ought not be treated that way. It might be age-appropriate if a young child gets it in her head to climb furniture, but I would be furious if my DH was encouraging it.

I'll say it again, your DH should not use your DD to work through his issues with his father. Find him a therapist.
post #93 of 110
It doesn't sound like this is a very safe activity right now (from what I'm imagining based on your description). I agree with possibly changing the type of seat to an SN type seat and I would also suggest getting to the bottom of your husband's defiance?!? I'm slightly appalled that he would just ignore your pain and reservations so blatently (WHILE putting your dd at risk of serious injury).
post #94 of 110
OK, call me a doubting Thomas but I find it really hard to believe she gets to 12 feet.

If the swing were already 6 feet off the ground? The laws of physics wouldn't let her get twice that height... If the swing were higher, he couldn't push her without a ladder.

So, I need more data.

lisa (mechanical engineer)
post #95 of 110
When one of us has a safety concern, we discuss that concern. If the person with the safety concern isn't convinced by the arguments of the one who thinks the activity is safe enough, then the safety concern "wins" and the child doesn't do the activity. We act conservatively when it comes to the safety of our children. Neither of us are over-protective parents at all. And, it's understood that with age and maturity, those "unsafe" activities will become more safe and no longer be off-limits. We try to keep communication about those things open.
post #96 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by lerlerler View Post
OK, call me a doubting Thomas but I find it really hard to believe she gets to 12 feet.

If the swing were already 6 feet off the ground? The laws of physics wouldn't let her get twice that height... If the swing were higher, he couldn't push her without a ladder.

So, I need more data.

lisa (mechanical engineer)
The height a swing goes off the ground will depend on the length of the rope. So if you have a swing where the base of the swing is 2' off the ground, and the rope is 20' long, hypothetically if you pushed hard enough to get the rope parallel to the ground at the highest point, you'd be 22' off the ground. Potentially higher, because sometimes swings go higher than that.

When I broke both of my arms on the swingset, I was only about 6' off the ground on a mulch playground. I was in agonizing pain for a month. I compare it to the pain of my unmedicated childbirth of my 9.5 pound baby, although I feel like childbirth was less painful because at the end I got lots of endorphins and a snuggly baby rather than an itchy cast.

This is actually very much like circ, or other harms you need to protect your children from. I still can't fully straighten my left arm, and get aches in those joints when it rains. Your DD's physical integrity (and quite possibly her life) is at risk.

I'm all about compromise when necessary, but if it was me, I'd cut the swing down. Not worth losing my baby over.
post #97 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by patricegonzales View Post

3 different mothers in the neighborhood have commented about how high and crazy the swing is.
I think this is significant.
post #98 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobmom View Post
Your DH should not use your DD to work through his issues with his father. The swing over concrete is dangerous. Climbing bookcases? Completely ridiculous. Besides being dangerous if your DD ever decides to climb bookcases that aren't mounted to the wall, it's inappropriate behavior. Furniture and books ought not be treated that way. It might be age-appropriate if a young child gets it in her head to climb furniture, but I would be furious if my DH was encouraging it.

I'll say it again, your DH should not use your DD to work through his issues with his father. Find him a therapist.


My dad did similar stuff to me as a kid. He would encourage me to stick my hand inside a logs where poisonous spiders may have been. He would encourage me to dodangerous things near the river(I fell in once and being unable to swim he pulled me out before I was swept away). I don't think it sounds like your husband is that extreme, but I feel encouraging a child to do dangerous things in general, is abnormal. A father should want to protect their child and teach them to explore the world safely.
post #99 of 110
Wow - that does not seem remotely safe to me... just way too risky. Swinging like that over concrete if she ever fell it seems so likely it would cause a substantial injury. I would seriously be worried about a head or spine injury.

We have a small swing set & both my kids have fallen from the swings at some point. Neither was injured, other than minor bumps & bruises, but they have a soft surface below. Both my kids are reasonably cautious, hold on tight & are generally careful and know it would likely hurt to fall from the swing, but both still at some point let go of the ropes at the high point of swinging, something startled them, they got distracted, whatever... it's just something that can & does happen.

I really hope you will trust your gut here and that your husband is willing to work with you even if he doesn't agree. It's just not a safe set up. I know it depends on your yard, but it seems like a reasonable compromise to take that swing down & set up a new one over a soft surface elsewhere in the yard.
post #100 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by patricegonzales View Post

(It also swings out over the sidewalk toward the road=concrete) 3 different mothers in the neighborhood have commented about how high and crazy the swing is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama View Post
I think this is significant.
I agree. I think the situation is dangerous. Even if it's over grass, if the grass is heavily played on, the ground is still a hard surface.

I hope the reality of the situation is realized before your three year old daughter ends up in the ER with a compound fracture.

I too deal with a husband that just doesn't see the dangers. Once, when my little one was two, he climbed up on the lawn chair to look over the side of our dough boy pool. I was standing on the porch & yelled at DH to get him. He said, "Oh, he's fine. I got him!" No sooner had he said that did my baby fall head first to the bottom of the pool. DH scooped him out, but I was absolutely livid. I still can't get that picture out of my head.

Trust your Mama instincts. We have them for a reason. I strongly feel your hubby is out of line. (((Hugs))
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