Racist comments in School WWYD?

[raksmama]

For the last few months, Ds (12) has been coming home telling me about horrible racist comments other children at school have been making, really vulgar,ugly stuff like jokes about Jews, and Asians. There is one boy in particular who is making most of these comments.

As well, ever since all the kids in my son’s class did presentations on their family trees, this boy also is saying DS and a few other kids are “immigrants and not real Canadians” (DH a Canadian citizen is originally from Lebanon)

I really feel the school needs to be informed about all of this. The problem is my son does not want me to. Last year when he came home telling me about all this XXX-rated stuff that he’d heard from a class mate I promptly informed both the teacher and the principal. Ds had to go before the principal and the teacher with the child in question and repeat to them what he told me (without all the graphic details of course). The other child just denied it and told the others in class that my son was a tattletale. Because of this experience DS does not want me to go to the teacher or principal about any of this.
But enough is enough. I feel I can’t let this go on. What would you do?

[GuildJenn]

That's really difficult. Would this be the same principal? Because that other situation was very badly handled.

I think I would talk to my son and see if we couldn't come to a mutally agreeable way of talking to the school, perhaps by approaching the teacher in whose class the presentations were made and seeing if there could be an anti-racism presentation slipped in or if he/she could say something like "I understand there's an issue about the definition of "real Canadian" and I'd like to take a few minutes to address that." [grr for that by the way.]

I do believe the school needs to know, but having read how the other case was handled makes me a bit leery.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by jalilah

I really feel the school needs to be informed about all of this. The problem is my son does not want me to. Last year when he came home telling me about all this XXX-rated stuff that he’d heard from a class mate I promptly informed both the teacher and the principal. Ds had to go before the principal and the teacher with the child in question and repeat to them what he told me (without all the graphic details of course).

respect your son's wishes. I agree with you about the issues with racist comments (and I know they wouldn't be tolerated at my kids' school) but keeping the lines of communication open with your son are MORE important.

I'd deal with my own child about how they felt about what was being said, what to say back, etc., but I wouldn't tell any one anything that my child told me in confidence.

[Azik's mom]

I dont know if this is possible or not. But I would approach the school without giving too much detail about your son said. I lived in Toronto and also Montreal for a little while and from my observations and research anti immigrant sentiments especially towards those are visible minorities are a big issues and it is a growing concern.

So.... I would approach the school under the vise that you suspect this might be an issue and see if they would address it or not. I know that there are groups in Toronto who are involved at the school level at addressing this issue (e.g. Center for Diversity).

If the school does not react then I would deal with it one on one with my son, (so as not to betray my son's confidence). But if he continues coming back with these stories I would have to find a way to inform the school officials.
I say that because while I would not want to betray my son's confidence, I also worry about the other unintentional message that I could be sending. That we should be silent against racism and other forms of prejudice.

[sapphire_chan]

Given how the school handled the last issue, I sure wouldn't talk to them about this either.

I'd tell ds he always has the chance to leave school and complete his education at home and that he is free to tell the boy to stop saying stupid racist BS.

[eepster]

Considering how badly the school has handled delicate situations in the past, and the age of the students involved, I think outside help is needed. Also, though you are hearing about specific incidents, I think they are really a symptom of a larger problem.

I'd go to the school board and talk about implementing district wide curriculum on tolerance. Before going if you could research what resources are available in your area that would help.

[raksmama]

Guildjenn, Yes,it is the same principal and I am glad to have it confirmed to me that the situation was badly handled because I felt that way too!

Linda on the Move, I agree about respecting my son’s wishes and not betraying his trust. That is why I have not contacted the school about his yet.

DS knows the comments are very bad and go against everything we in our family believe in, however he has to be around all these kids on a regular basis and does not want to be on the bad side of them.

Azik’s Mom: I agree 100% with your point: ” I also worry about the other unintentional message that I could be sending. That we should be silent against racism and other forms of prejudice”

this is what really concerns me. This should not be going on! These kids should not be allowed to say these kind of things! All the children in the schools should be made aware that this kind of thing is just not acceptable!

Sapphire –Chan I am not in the position to home school ds now, however I have made it known to him many times that if he really hates his school we would find another option for him. He does like this school except for students like the ones he complained to me about.

Eepster, contacting the school board definitely might be an option.

But before going to the board I might still go to the school as Aziks mom suggested “I would approach the school under the vise that you suspect this (anti immigrant sentiments )might be an issue and see if they would address it or not.”

I might express to them the fact that some of the children are missing the point of the family tree project without naming particular children or incidents.

I have got to think about this one! Soon!

[eepster]

Originally Posted by jalilah

But before going to the board I might still go to the school as Aziks mom suggested “I would approach the school under the vise that you suspect this (anti immigrant sentiments )might be an issue and see if they would address it or not.”

I might express to them the fact that some of the children are missing the point of the family tree project without naming particular children or incidents.

My concern with going to the school isn't simply about it making your DS out to be a tattle tale again, it was b/c I think the school will handle the diversity education very poorly.

In the last incident, they showed a surprising lack of subtlety, compassion and understanding. The racism that is happening is a complicated issue, and one that adults are often rather uncomfortable with. Especially at the age the students are, simply telling them racism is wrong is going to be ineffective at best, and at worst turn it into a cool thing to rebel against the adult over.

My other concern is that since these things are coming up at this age, the school has already failed to teach tolerance for the last 6 or 7 year. They have in fact seemed to have taught the exact opposite recently. Since they have already done such a miserable job at it, I see no reason to think they can now in the eleventh hour suddenly succeed where they have failed for so long.

I also feel that this subject is generally best taken up early. So, it really is a system wide failure. Just as starting to lay the foundations of reading andmath and science began in kindergarten, this should have been started in kindergarten too. Had the history and social studies curriculum in younger grades been multi-cultural and tolerant (and done well) it is unlikely that these kinds of problems would suddenly pop-up at this point. By going to the board with resources for a good curriculum, it can start in the younger grades. This will be helpful to create a generally tolerant atmosphere in the schools, where your DS wouldn't be the odd man out in finding his offensive.

[mtiger]

Why not help your 12yo learn how to diffuse and deflect those types of comments? He's more than old enough to tell the kids who make the jokes and comments that they're not funny.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by mtiger

Why not help your 12yo learn how to diffuse and deflect those types of comments? He's more than old enough to tell the kids who make the jokes and comments that they're not funny.

I know tons of adults who aren't even able to stand up to people that way. I think your expectations of a 12yo are extremely high in that regard.

Definitely keep the lines of communication open with your son, OP, and don't betray his confidence, but....is there a way you can write an anonymous letter to the principal and/or school committee, just for awareness? They don't need to know "who said what"....but they should know that things are being said. Addressing the entire student body would be more effective, IMO, than addressing the handful of kids who are spouting ignorance. Talking to all the students might actually empower the non-bigoted kids to stand up to the racist ones.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by 2xy

I know tons of adults who aren't even able to stand up to people that way. I think your expectations of a 12yo are extremely high in that regard.

Perhaps because they're not taught how to do so? 'Cause my two have never had a problem telling people that certain jokes aren't funny. From when they were younger than 12.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by mtiger

Perhaps because they're not taught how to do so? 'Cause my two have never had a problem telling people that certain jokes aren't funny. From when they were younger than 12.

agreed. Our kids are far better off having us coach them through dealing with stuff rather than always relying on grown up to fix things. It gives them skills for life.

[raksmama]

Originally Posted by mtiger

Perhaps because they're not taught how to do so? 'Cause my two have never had a problem telling people that certain jokes aren't funny. From when they were younger than 12.

Um..DS does answer these people. When he told me about the comments, it was not in a complaining way asking me to do something about it. Rather it was just him sharing his day with me.

My issue is that there are so many of these comments in his school in the first place. I can tell that some of the comments are things that the children could only have heard from their parents.

The school by having the students present their family trees was encouraging the kids to also talk about their ethnic backgrounds. The teachers should have made it clear that while perhaps those whose families were originally from France or England might have a longer history being in Canada, they were also originally immigrants and those whose ancestors immigrated later and from other countries come are also Canadian

[raksmama]

Originally Posted by eepster

My concern with going to the school isn't simply about it making your DS out to be a tattle tale again, it was b/c I think the school will handle the diversity education very poorly.

In the last incident, they showed a surprising lack of subtlety, compassion and understanding. The racism that is happening is a complicated issue, and one that adults are often rather uncomfortable with. Especially at the age the students are, simply telling them racism is wrong is going to be ineffective at best, and at worst turn it into a cool thing to rebel against the adult over.

My other concern is that since these things are coming up at this age, the school has already failed to teach tolerance for the last 6 or 7 year. They have in fact seemed to have taught the exact opposite recently. Since they have already done such a miserable job at it, I see no reason to think they can now in the eleventh hour suddenly succeed where they have failed for so long.

I also feel that this subject is generally best taken up early. So, it really is a system wide failure. Just as starting to lay the foundations of reading andmath and science began in kindergarten, this should have been started in kindergarten too. Had the history and social studies curriculum in younger grades been multi-cultural and tolerant (and done well) it is unlikely that these kinds of problems would suddenly pop-up at this point. By going to the board with resources for a good curriculum, it can start in the younger grades. This will be helpful to create a generally tolerant atmosphere in the schools, where your DS wouldn't be the odd man out in finding his offensive.

I totally agree!

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by jalilah

My issue is that there are so many of these comments in his school in the first place. I can tell that some of the comments are things that the children could only have heard from their parents.

I'm an American, my Dh is British. We've lived in Ontario and Quebec and currently live in the US. I found there was FAR more racism in Canada than the US. It was more accepted. It really suprised me because, overall, Canada seems like a "nicer" country (socialized health care, you never blow anybody up, etc.)

I don't get it. The kind of stuff you are describing would NOT be tolerated at my kids' school, which is 40% white, 40% african american, and 20%. My kids are in middle school and I asked that would happen to a child who made a racist comment, and they didn't know because it just never happens, which kinda suprised me because there are a lot of problems with behavoir, but that is one thing the kids have been taught isn't OK.

[mamatowill]

That is very frowned upon in the Ontario school system. The government has made it clear that racist comments are not to be tolerated. The new Safe Schools bill that was introduced in February was very clear. Also anti-racism teaching is being built into the curriculum and teachers are expected to create a caring and safe school. If needed I would go to the superintendant of your son's school and let him or her know that there is a problem and it was handled poorly the last time something like this came up.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

I'm an American, my Dh is British. We've lived in Ontario and Quebec and currently live in the US. I found there was FAR more racism in Canada than the US. It was more accepted. It really suprised me because, overall, Canada seems like a "nicer" country (socialized health care, you never blow anybody up, etc.)

I don't get it. The kind of stuff you are describing would NOT be tolerated at my kids' school, which is 40% white, 40% african american, and 20%. My kids are in middle school and I asked that would happen to a child who made a racist comment, and they didn't know because it just never happens, which kinda suprised me because there are a lot of problems with behavoir, but that is one thing the kids have been taught isn't OK.

I think it depends on where you live and who your friends are, really. Or in this case how good the staff is.

I went to a very multi-cultural school in downtown Toronto in the 80s and it was not racist at all. But my local public school at the same time definitely had issues - not horrible issues but just a very caucasian population that was pretty ignorant.

Where I live now (Scarborough) I see it swing a lot of different ways. I have heard of people assuming a black parent of a biracial child was the nanny (!!!!!) which seems pretty racist to me. But on the other hand I don't think most people give two figs what colour their kids' friends are or their friends or their teachers, etc.

I do wonder about my company a bit, since it's like - almost all white people, in a city that really ISN'T. I haven't figured that out yet.

When I was out east (small town NB) I found people were extremely good hearted but not used to cultural differences. They were racist by stupidity really. ("Hey that's THE black guy.")

Quebec is where I personally have encountered the most racism within Canada, actual institutionalized crazy racism, and it's one reason we didn't move to Montreal, even though I love Montreal.

My relatives in the Detroit area are not very racist as far as I can tell; my relatives in Florida are openly and scarily racist about just about any group you can stereotype. However my most racist relation lived in California in the 40s and then in upstate NY. When I was in Texas I encountered the most overt racism ever (including Quebec) including talking about shooting Mexicans for sport. (!!) But I almost have to assume that the latter was just over the top for the tourist (me).

So...I don't know that that is helpful.

For me, I wouldn't expect that the principal is going to handle it, but I would still want to try to find a way to do or say something.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I have heard of people assuming a black parent of a biracial child was the nanny (!!!!!) which seems pretty racist to me.

I don't think that's being racist. I think people generally expect children to resemble their parents.....and if they don't know the parents, they get confused.

I have a friend who is very white, freckly, red-haired German looking lady. Her kids' dad is Chinese, but they've been divorced for about 16 years, so nobody ever sees them together. People assume that she is the babysitter or something, because they look nothing like her.

[Azik's mom]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

I'm an American, my Dh is British. We've lived in Ontario and Quebec and currently live in the US. I found there was FAR more racism in Canada than the US. It was more accepted. It really suprised me because, overall, Canada seems like a "nicer" country (socialized health care, you never blow anybody up, etc.)

I don't get it. The kind of stuff you are describing would NOT be tolerated at my kids' school, which is 40% white, 40% african american, and 20%. My kids are in middle school and I asked that would happen to a child who made a racist comment, and they didn't know because it just never happens, which kinda suprised me because there are a lot of problems with behavoir, but that is one thing the kids have been taught isn't OK.

That's interesting! Seems as though we lived in very similar places. I am also now in the US. I wouldn't say that I encountered more racism in Canada. I would however say that the racism was different and what I experience in Canada surprised just because of what you normally hear about Canada.

What perturbs me most about racism in Canada is that while some people might acknowledge that it is present, they usually then say... but it's not to the same extent as it the US and then they forget about it. In the past Canada has been open to immigrants but as the visible minority population increases people are becoming more closed. I think part of it really has to do with old stereotypes and a misunderstanding of cultures. And especially in times of economic down turns racism is often more visible since there is a mistrust and a feeling that these people are taking our jobs and ruining our society.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Azik's mom

That's interesting! Seems as though we lived in very similar places. I am also now in the US. I wouldn't say that I encountered more racism in Canada. I would however say that the racism was different and what I experience in Canada surprised just because of what you normally hear about Canada.

yes. In my experience, middle class, educated Americans tend to think of racism as a bad thing. The sterotype of a racist is someone who is uneducated (with a big beer gut and an old undershirt).

Even when people have mild racist beliefs they are quiet about it and would be mortified if their child said something racist because they know it would reflect poorly on the parents.

Many middle class Canadians, on the other hand, are far more open about what they think of different groups. (in both countries I lived in middle class neighborhoods with white color professionals for neighbors).

In Quebec, racism is politically correct.

I know that there is racism here in the states, but the attitude about it really was different in Canada. It was more accepted. I found it creepy.