More fat = more calories...how to reconcile this

[daisymommy]

Updated: New question in post #23

As I've been reading that full fat foods do not cause hardening of the arteries and high cholesterol problems, or health problems, I'm thinking "wow! great! now I can eat them without fear!"

But for some dumb reason I'm not remembering the fact that more fat = more calories, and that is *one* of the reasons we are we as American's are obsessed with low-fat diets...because we want to be thin. Myself included. Not to the exclusion of my health (I think health is more important), but I do think we can have both, most of the time.

So, now I'm worried that I'm going to gain a ton of weight if I start eating full-fat. I know there's the book "Eat Fat Lose Fat" but that's about eating coconut oil fat (correct?)

I don't go to the gym or "work-out" persay, other than keeping up with the 3 kids full time and a 3 floor house (by the end of the day I'm exhausted, so I would say I am getting quite a bit of exercise!)

But still, should I be worried? I'd love to read that fat from healthy animals just slips right through your system and never gets metabolized or something

[fruitfulmomma]

Richard Morris lost over 150lbs. on the TF/NT diet. His book A Life Unburdened (http://www.breadandmoney.com/) will probably give a more detailed answer, but basically the premise is that fat metabolizes differently and helps you stay full longer and therefore you would naturally eat less calories.

I've been eating a full-fat diet for the last 3 years and have never felt better. And now, because of my daughter's high level of food intolerance my diet consists of at least 50% animals foods all with fat intact. The other half is about half rice and potatoes and half veggies, all slathered with plenty of butter. I weigh about 15lbs. less now than when I started all this and have a lot more energy.

ETA: The only exercise I get is chasing toddlers and going hiking with them once in awhile.

[Amatullah0]

I am half way through eat fat lose fat, and was just about to pick it up again(give me a few minutes ) but yeah, its mainly about coconut oil.

since coconut oil is somewhat out of our reach(i.e. DH doesn't like the idea of it ) we've switched to ghee. and since we cook mostly pakistani foods, it totally meshes with the food's origin . but, i guess it doesn't matter, because ghee doesn't have a taste. you take butter, and boil it, scooping out the yummy milk solids until its completely clear. easy peasy.

anyways, I have a question. I was going to consult the previously mentioned book, but now that i'm typing here(and because i don't think it has the answer) i'm wondering, full fats don't make you fat, how? it in the case of ghee, i was telling a family friend(i.e. MIL's friend, very traditional pakistani woman who cooks with veg oil) that i made ghee, and she said "ghee will make you fat!" i don't know what i said back, but it was pretty dismissive, and veg oil is still "eww" to me, and is put into the category of "fake stuff" with all the other processed things.

[fresh_veggie]

I would just say, eat less overall? This should be easier since full-fat foods are very satisfying. If you previously got 25% of calories from fat but now get 50%, it's still a percentage of your total macronutrient consumption. You can still stay at the same range of total calories (or even less, as they are very satisfying!). Even if you had 75% of cals from full-fat, if you only ate 1600 cals a day you'd still lose weight (or maintain, depending on how many you need).

[serenbat]

"ghee will make you fat!"

http://www.rherald.com/news/2003-07-..._page/f02.html

"Because it is a short chain fat, ghee cannot make you fat—the body only uses it as energy. Whatever food you eat, ghee binds with it and enables the body to absorb it—adding fat to vegetables, for instance, allows the body to absorb it better."

[2xy]

Most foods that are naturally fatty are animal based. They shouldn't make up the bulk of your diet, anyway. If you still fill up on fruits, veggies, and grains, the amount of full fat you take in shouldn't affect you very much.

[Teenytoona]

Also, alot of TF folks don't buy into calories in= calories out version of weight loss.

[JMJ]

I'm still trying to work some of this out for myself. Even following the calories in, calories out theory, your body needs a certain amount of calories to function properly. It is common knowledge that even when you're trying to loose weight, you have to be careful not too lose it too quickly because it will mess with your body's ability to function properly if it does not have enough calories.

The only ways to get calories are: fat (9 per gram), protein (4 per gram), carbohydrates (4 per gram), and alcohol (7 per gram). The basis for a nourishing diet is how to get the calories that you need in a way that maximizes the nutrients available to your body. I haven't even said anything controversial yet. These are all things you'd learn in any mainstream nutrition class.

The controversial truth is, though, that a lot of nutrients are absorbed much better in the presence of fat and that sugars mess with your body's ability to tell if you are hungry or not while fat helps your body know how much food it needs to eat. You eat when you're hungry, and you don't when you're not. I have been able to apply this while breastfeeding, slowly losing my pregnancy weight over the course of 9 months and then maintaining a weight within a few pounds of that for the past 4 months. Without sugar in my diet, my body knows when DD is on a growth spurt and needs me to eat more calories and when she is getting more interested in solid foods, and I can have a smaller meal or don't need as many snacks.

[alireb]

I'm reading Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes and he really goes into this. Basically, they have found that people eating just protein and fat (no carbs) will lose weight even when their calories have not been reduced. There's a lot more to the book than that but he does discuss the myths about fat.

Personally, when I eat lots of fat, and I eat about 50% of my calories from fat a day, I feel more full and I also don't have sweet cravings. I get my fat from coconut oil, butter, and meat and eggs. I'm not doing milk because I personally react to it and because of the carbs.

[womenswisdom]

For a very thorough explanation, read the second half of Good Calories, Bad Calories. It explains the science behind weight gain/loss (hint: it has nothing to do with calories in vs. calories out).

[avendesora]

This series of posts is brilliant:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...-setpoint.html
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...anisms-of.html
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...i-dietary.html
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...-changing.html



I makes so much sense that our bodies ought to have some built-in mechanism to help us maintain a healthy weight. Yes, we are eating more calories now than we used to, but WHY are we eating more calories? Why isn't our "I'm full" senses working as well as they used to?

I've been reading about this for a few months now. Here's a brief synopsis... "Body fat produces a hormone called leptin, which signals to the brain and other organs to decrease appetite, increase the metabolic rate and increase physical activity. More fat means more leptin, which then causes the extra fat to be burned. The little glitch is that some people become resistant to leptin, so that their brain doesn't hear the fat tissue screaming that it's already full. Leptin resistance nearly always accompanies obesity, because it's a precondition of significant fat gain. If a person weren't leptin resistant, he wouldn't have the ability to gain more than a few pounds of fat without heroic overeating (which is very very unpleasant when your brain is telling you to stop)." I took that part from part II.
The leptin hormones are indeed in our blood, but our brain isn't noticing them. And the scientists are working on theories as to why. The hypothalamus is the receiving end of the leptin, and inflammation there would block its ability to receive the leptin. Fructose might be part of the culprit.

In fact, if the brain isn't seeing the leptin, then it thinks that we're UNDERweight, and that's part of why it's so hard to choose to eat less. Because our brain is telling us to eat more, thinking that we won't make it through the next long cold winter unless we do.

So how this relates to the OP's question: If your leptin receptors are working well, your body will naturally give you 'full' messages, and your body weight will maintain itself without much effort. No need to count calories.

[Magelet]

Yes, you eat less because you are fuller, to an extent. I also think that the fat=fat and too many calories in= fat are fundamentally flawed, and that there is a LOT more to it.

Anecdotally, I was curious from this thread, how many calories I eat in a day, so I signed up on fitday, to look at what I've eaten over the past few days. Turns out, I eat WAY more calories than I thought (I think, I've only entered what I've eaten so far today, at 6 pm, which is pre-dinner.) I'm 19, not pregnant, not nursing, I am on my feet all day at work, but only exercise about 1x a week right now outside of that, and throughout my life have had a fairly normal metabolism. I'd say what I've eaten today is... fairly standard. Maybe a slightly heavier than usual on fats day, but not much more so. I've already eaten just over 2,000 calories, 50% of them from fat, and this is before dinner. I'll probably have a decent sized dinner, with a good amount of fat, later tonight. I'm healthier than I've ever been, with low cholesterol, low body fat, more stamina and strength than any other time in which I haven't been working out strenously, (obviously, I have less strength than when I was in amazing shape), and am over all healthy. Clearly, my metabolism is much higher, because I eat a lot, but I'm not "over eating", nor am I putting on weight, I've been eating like this for a year or so, and have maintained my weight.

Looking at the numbers, it's a little scary, cause you know "2000 calories 2000 calories 2000 calories" but I know from my body that I'm very healthy (and scientific assesements of my body, such as bmi, cholesterol, etc).

I think that when I was eating a ton of food, and it was all carbs and sugars, because fat wasn't giving me the off switch, that was the reason I was fat then. I was overeating of the WRONG TYPE of calories, and not calories in general. In fact, I'm starting to think calories are not useful hardly at all, except perhaps in a minimum survival situation.

So I'd say, take it for a try, and pay attention to your body, and see how you feel.

[Millie Ivy]

Big ol' props and high fives to Magelet!!! Keep it up girl, and you won't have to be backtracking to regain equilibrium and health later in life.

You rock. Have a (((hug)))

[fruitfulmomma]

Per nutrition data, my calorie intake is between 2000 and 2200 a day, the higher end of that including those days when we have bacon.

[Millie Ivy]

hehe. My calories yesterday were 1600, fully satisfied, though I only ate 1 good sized meal and 1 snack.

Today has been over 2200.

Whatever, go figure. :-) I'm happy and feeling fine.

[moonlight mom]

Can those of you that eat 50% of your calories from fat post what you eat in a day. I don't tolerate too much animal fat, but do well with coconut oil, avocado and ghee. Can someone give me an idea what a high fat day looks like without just eating spoonfuls of oil

[Magelet]

Well, yesterday, I had a banana/raw milk/egg yolk/spoonful of buttermilk smoothie for breakfast.

then I had several thin slices of bread with maybe a tablespoon of feta (whole milk) and 2 tbs of butter, and a tbs of peanut butter with a couple celery sticks and raisins. Then lunch (I admit, this is unusual, more normally, it would be a rich stew or soup, still with lots of fat though), I had chicken gravy, salad with dressing, and cheesy toasts (toasts with whole milk chedder cheese melted onto them.) For dinner, we had cheese sandwhiches with vinegrette.

(holy crud, I think I'm a lactovore....)

[alireb]

A typical day:

B: 2-3 scrambled eggs in 1 tbsp coconut oil, 3 small chicken sausages
L: big salad with lettuce, avocado, olives, olive oil, lemon juice, peppers, and chicken or salmon
D: roast chicken, fish, or grassfed beef (typically cooked with olive oil or butter), green veggies cooked with olive oil or butter (kale, broccoli, green beans)

[daisymommy]

Originally Posted by Teenytoona

Also, alot of TF folks don't buy into calories in= calories out version of weight loss.

Really? Wow, I sure do have a lot more learning to do! Thanks for all the info ladies. I think I'll check out the Good/Bad Calories book from the library.

[MrsBone]

Well, I did a little experiment the other day...I'll call it that now, cause that's what it ended up being. I was feeling really cruddy the other day and just wanted to snack mindlessly. I ate a lot of corn tortilla chips (not TF) and some gluten free cookies..probably consumed 600 calories of crap basically. I figured I'd be so full and stuffed I wouldn't be able to eat dinner. Then I felt crappier (I don't know what I was expecting lol). And, an hour later, I felt crappy but hungry again. It's like my body was craving more salt and sugar. Needless to say, I was still hungry for dinner and ate a healthy one, but consumed way more calories than my body needed to in a day.

Yesterday, my family came over and we made a salad with bacon, avocado, raw cheese, sauteed mushrooms, vinaigrette, lots of veggies and some cold salmon. High fat- hi protein and nutrient dense. We also ate some artichokes dipped in butter. I was full for 5-6 hours at least. Ate a small dinner and felt very satisfied. No cravings for salt, sugar, nothing. Just full and satisfied. So, my point is, if you are eating healthy, nutrient dense foods, and not eating too much, you should still lose weight. Healthy fats seemed to have been just as satisfying as the binge on chips and cookies, but much healthier and without the nasty side effects.