Originally Posted by lach
I think this is a very good point, and something to keep in mind. I've worked with a lot of homeschoolers, and most are really sweet kids who have all sorts of friends and interests. But there are a few who have obviously really had it drilled into them how superior they are to traditionally schooled kids. And I have to be honest, as a big supporter of homeschooling... it wears thin really quickly. Imagine some of the obnoxious joke answers people have posted on this thread being repeated constantly by a 7 year old. To adults and other kids alike, many of whom send their kids to school or go to school themselves. His education may be superior, but I absolutely tell you from experience that his social life isn't. Even the adults don't want to be around that kid! Weird how I'm teaching an ART CLASS, yet simply the fact that I went to school means that I have no creativity or talents other than filling out worksheets.
So that's kind of a little aside rant, but I think that it behoves all of us to remember that no matter our reasons, if you don't want your child telling them to everyone he sees you should be diplomatic in front of him (at least until he's older and a bit better at nuance). Because the world really does take all kinds
Do you mean to say that all hs'ed children's social lives are inferior to those of ps'ed dc, or were you referring to someone specific?
I don't find any of the responses in this thread to be obnoxious just like I don't judge the usual and common free-speech of ps parents and their dc (though obviously NOT inclusive of hsers except in very rare instances in general) to be obnoxious. Mis/uninformed, mistaken, hostile even, but not obnoxious. Parents are rightly passionate and have their reasons, hopefully, and if they don't have reasons for their choices, then perhaps discussions like these are actually helpful, even if offensive.
It's no great irony that some things posted here may be useful for educating those who are not educated about education. Being offended is not the worst thing in the world; it can help a person know what s/he stands for and why. I am not interested in coddling others when it comes to my own choices; I make them for my family- not theirs. Offense is incidental, I suppose.
Parents who ps have a common buzz phrase that goes something like, "my child is thriving at school," and it is so common that children will repeat it and it's even used as a counter point to any alternatives when children are obviously NOT thriving in ps.
There is a dc who is being bullied by his school teacher here and it's causing him misery. His father said, "He's having meldowns every day at school, his teacher has a mental problem, but I don't want to take him out because it's only a month longer and he's thriving in school
." Really??? What does that even mean? This is common. It's safe to say it, and nobody calls this offensive, even though it really ought to be to everyone, and is
to someone like me!
How is that less offensive than me saying that we learn together because we're libertarian philosophical anarchists? At least what I'm saying is true. And it is certainly not a joke!
Parents who hs also have buzz phrases, and given that ps is the 'norm', I think the behooving belongs in the other direction. I am happy that there is a safe place/group to be honest about why we few people are choosing in common something unusual for our families.
Is it even possible to be secretive/evasive/diplomatic about other unusual/non-mainstream choices we make? Can I be deliberately evasive and diplomatic about breastfeeding? About baby-wearing? I do these things in public, and my dc know why we do them; should I have kept these things from them so that they wouldn't in their immaturity offend the delicate sensibilities of adults who can't handle a child's repetition of his parents' convictions? What exacty can we, who are with our children far more hours of the day than ps'ers (typically) say out loud???
Do I find it obnoxious to hear ps'ed children's whole worldview filtered through and coloured by a ps lens? No, I don't. I expect it. I wouldn't ask their parents to give them a different vocabulary or somehow figure out a way to keep them from speaking in ways that divulge their parent's choices to send them to ps.
My point is that I am not interested in appearing diplomatic in front of my dc (who are with me all the time and hear dp and I talk about our life and choices all the time); I am not diplomatic about my passions and convictions! And I'm not a liar by evasion or by deliberation and manipulation of my dc's socialisation with others. I don't value diplomacy over true authenticity and thankfully, I don't have to pretend to since my dc are not in a position wherein they have to figure out who it's safe to be honest with. This is an example of one of my biggest reasons for not even considering putting my dc in ps or any other institution/self-appointed authoritarian system or program.
Is it obnoxious to be
libertarian, philosophically anarchist, non-socialist, unsupportive of mass schooling, deeply passionate about my life choices with supporting information and evidences, honest with my dc about why dp and I make the choices we do, etc...? Is it obnoxious to define the terms of my personal freedoms and stand for them, live them and share them with my dc? Or is it just obnoxious to say it out loud?
I highly doubt a ps parent raving about how much more socialisation and diversity his/her child experiences in ps than if dc were hs'ed would be required to not speak clearly on the subject and life choices with his/her SEVEN yr old!!! At what point would you consider it okay to share the reasons a child is living the way s/he is? That's a pretty foundational aspect of any family's life together isn't it? We've been openly discussing our life choices with our children since before they were born. I've just assumed that regardless of where a child spends his/her days, a family discusses these things and the child is not just wanderng from place to place completely unaware.
Is this not the case?
I understand your desire to see collaboration over conflict. That's a noble desire, imo! BUT I don't think peace should come at any price, and I don't see why being honest about life choices is reasonably a catalyst for conflict in the first place.
I don't stand in opposition to families who ps their children. I don't make my choices based upon the negation of things I disagree with, but rather I make choices based on what I know, believe, and which align with my values. This is a proactive, positive position. My dc don't wear shirts that say "Your freedom is restricted, you ps'ers!" We say how we live when we're asked. And my dc do not walk around repeating what we've talked about; part of the wonder of how we live is that they do also learn how to socialise with other people and pestering others is understood to be generally not a great way to relate.
BUT there are children whose personalities tend them towards very extroverted exressions like in your example; hearing a child repeat parental phrases to other children like, "use your words" or "you get time-out" or even, "I'm the teacher and you have to xyz..." in a sing-song voice at a playground isn't pleasant for me and it grates on me rather quickly, and I do wish that dc experienced something different than that. BUT in what way can the parent who lives with that child stop him/her from saying this all the time? Should the parents consider that others may find that sort of treatment of a child offensive and then live diplomatically so that their real-life doesn't leak out through the child?
I don't want or need to be sheltered or coddled by others, but thankfully, only those whose choices are unusual are charged with the responsibility of not offending. Everyone else, including those who have not even thought about what they are doing or that they are even making choices, speaks freely, ime.
Sometimes offense is a symptom of a need for education.