does failure to pay cs = inability to provide for ds on visitation? - Page 2

[DirtRoadMama]

Well, not exactly. Here is a clip of the law, since I can't link to just this part, and the whole thing is pertinent:

(12)(a) A parent with a support obligation may have other children living with him or her who were born or adopted after the support obligation arose. If such subsequent children exist, the court, when considering an upward modification of an existing award, may disregard the income from secondary employment obtained in addition to the parent's primary employment if the court determines that the employment was obtained primarily to support the subsequent children.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (a), the existence of such subsequent children should not as a general rule be considered by the court as a basis for disregarding the amount provided in the guidelines schedule. The parent with a support obligation for subsequent children may raise the existence of such subsequent children as a justification for deviation from the guidelines schedule. However, if the existence of such subsequent children is raised, the income of the other parent of the subsequent children shall be considered by the court in determining whether or not there is a basis for deviation from the guideline amount.

So, the amount would probably go down, but Florida seems to think that the custodial parent is the one who will receive the child support, not the non-custodial. Florida law seems pretty clear that the only two people responsible for paying for a kid are the bio-parents. The clip above clearly says "born or adopted". Just getting married to someone doesn't make a step-kid adopted. Again, a lawyer would know best.

The assumption is being made that the OP can support her child without the child support. Just because she has been able to since he stopped paying in December does not mean that she will be able to forever. Perhaps she is living off her savings right now?

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by DirtRoadMama

The assumption is being made that the OP can support her child without the child support. Just because she has been able to since he stopped paying in December does not mean that she will be able to forever. Perhaps she is living off her savings right now?

She may be living off savings, and noone ever said anything about forever. OP did say that she sends her son with amy's pizza and burritos - which are NOT cheap! I can't afford to eat those ever on my law student budget.

And while the law may seem clear - judges have tons of discretion. I was just saying that its a possibility that his cs amount could go down based on his lower income (most people get more income when working than when they get unemployment or disability checks). And a court generally would not stop visitation just b/c a parent couldn't provide for their children.

[meemee]

what about your son's wishes. inspite of all the lack - it seems your son is wanting more time with his dad. how would that work?

hmmm so you send only food for your son. i dont know why that doesnt sit well with me. knowing his situation, i would at least send food for all teh kids, perhaps then ds will get fed. what does he do with the food you send if he doesnt give them to ds. could he be giving them to his other kids after son leaves?

however you absolutely are not under any obligation to feed anyone but your son, actually not even your son. but these are trying times.

now if your son is really not that interested in going that would be a whole different story. i am sure its not really his father but also all the other kids he wants to be a part of. in that situation i would much rather send food for 5 mouths rather than shorten ds's visits.

[Latte Mama]

While I think it would be extremely kind and generous to send food for all the kids, I in no way think the OP is obligated to do so. Imagine sending food for so many mouths for a weeks visitation! THAT would be pricey. I know that I as a newly single mama couldn't afford it and I have a pretty decent paying job.

Bottom line is that the Dad needs to get in gear and be reponsible for his own kids. 2 adults in that household, someone needs to work.

[blessedwithboys]

i actually do send treats for the other 5 kids. as i've said, i care for them a great deal and love to spend time with them. i am on good enough terms with their mother and she trusts me to care for her kids from time to time. occasionally i'll be in a mood to bake and i'll wrap up enough to send with ds so he can share. sometimes Big Lots will have organic candy for $2 and i'll send a bag of lollipops, just to show my ex ds doesnt "suffer" from lack of junk food LOL so, when my heart so moves me i send treats for ds to share with his step sibs and his baby brother. but damned if someone tries to tell me i shouldnt send food for my own kid and not FIVE OTHER CHILDREN BELONGING TO PARENTS WHO CAN'T/WON'T SUPPORT THEM!!! whew, it feels much better to just yell sometimes.

also, i can't afford to do it alone w/out cs. i am not better off financially that my ex. last year, i inherited some money. i bought a car and paid off my debt and stuffed the rest away for The Future. well, i'm using it now, and soon i'll have nothing left.

and yes, i know that if i take him to court now they will lower his weekly amount. but if he gets approved for disability i will get not only cs but a monthly check from them as well, so it'll be comparable eventually. so, losing money each week now that i'm not getting anyway is worth ensuring ds eats. 2 yrs ago he lost SIX pounds in the months immediately following the start of EOW visits. we went to the dr and had blood work done and i was even lucky enough to have the dr report us to CPS. it was all bc ds was going 2 days ina row twice a month with very little food. (we got the weight back on him, exdh agreed to use the food i sent, but once he got back up 6 or 7 lbs, he started slacking again)

[Satori]

I don't get it, he's only there for 2-3 hours. Just feed him dinner before he goes and assume he wont be fed. Send a snack in case the visit goes longer but its 2 hours, its not a big deal. The child should not be starving by having gone 3 hours without food less I am missing something. I would rather a child have a relationship with their parent then not over something as minor as this in the big picture of things. I mean is he a good dad in general outside of the CS issue? Does he spend quality time with the child? Does the child enjoy it? Is disrupting that bond worth it over a single meal?

[PoppyMama]

Satori,

The OP's son has lost significant weight that prompted a doctor to call CPS. Her son spends more than a couple of hours at a time there, this short visit is just one example.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

Satori,

The OP's son has lost significant weight that prompted a doctor to call CPS. Her son spends more than a couple of hours at a time there, this short visit is just one example.

Losing weight would be a problem but I only had the OP's post to go by which indicated a weekly 2 hour visit which based on that this seemed to be a way overblown reaction. I was not aware of the back story, it sounds like there needs to be a modification in the court order or voluntary changes in visitation.

[Myboysmom]

haven't read the entire thread
exh can afford food, dining out, etc...
child support is always paid but always late

the law here: lack of child support does not equate to withholding visitation
during evening visitation, there is no legal obligation to provide a meal

SUCKS!

[blessedwithboys]

myboysmom: child support is NOT always paid, it hasnt been paid since december 2009. also, evening visitation is customarily scheduled during the dinner hour. a meal is therefore obligatory. in fact, the NCP is obligated to provide food as needed by the child any time it is the NCPs "parenting time". so, if he has ds for 2 hrs or 2 days, he is required to feed the child.

i spoke with a paralegal friend today who is going to set me up with a consultation at her firm. she does a lot of family law work and agrees that if he is claiming he cant afford to pay child support it is logical to extrapolate that he cant afford food during visits either.

i am going to try for a modification so that he is under court order to:

A) have a full stock of groceries prior to picking up ds, or
B) give me 24 hrs notice that he cant afford food so that i can go shopping and send food with ds, which he will then be obligated to feed him on the visit, or
C) if ds balks at eating over there, he will return ds to me long enough to feed him and then pick him back up for more visitation until it is time for the next meal. (this was actually a friendly agreement we had when ds lost the weight a while back, but after he regained it, exdh stopped bringing him back to me for meals)

i dont necessarily want to keep ds from going to visit his father, i just dont want to have to worry that he isnt being fed. 2 hrs is an annoyance. 2 days is a concern. one whole week is unconscionable.

[Myboysmom]

MY APOLOGIES!!! I meant that MY child support is always paid and my ex is far from financially struggling. Yet he doesn't feed them unless they are with him for more than just an afternoon/evening visit of <4 or 5 hours.

[blessedwithboys]

oh, so sorry for not understanding! LOL but i think there IS an obligation to provide a meal. IME, most orders say that each parent must provide food during his/her parenting time, and if that parenting time falls between 6-8pm it should stand to reason that a meal is obligatory. what is wrong with some men that they dont think to feed their kids? and no matter what i try to do to eliminate the issue, it fails. i try to feed ds before he leaves, he's too hyped up to eat. i plan to have a re-heatable meal ready for when he comes home, he's too tired and cranky to eat so he just pitches a huge fit until he falls asleep on the couch. i'm ready to give up and just let him not eat LOL

[blessedwithboys]

another dinner visit, another dinner not served. at least tonight i didnt offer extra time, so it was only the ordered two hours and ds came home early enough for me to feed him before he got worked up.

[PoppyMama]

Does your x or his wife offer any suggestions for taking care of this problem? Do they acknowledge the problem? Does his wife not mind her kids not being fed?

[blessedwithboys]

ex's wife loves the idea that i want to pack all his food for him bc it saves her the work of having to worry about feeding him (if you'll recall, she has 5 of her own plus on due soon, and exdh isnt super helpful when it comes to childcare). as far as her kids having or not having food...she's not what most here at mdc would consider a "good" or attentive mother. they eat breakfast and lunch at school and dinner is usually hamburger helper or cold cuts. if they are broke, her family feeds her kids. she doesnt worry about their health the way i consciously and conscientiously worry about my kids.

ex has no suggestions. i gently remind him thats its been an issue and he hangs up the phone. it will come down to court, i just know it. i weigh ds once a week and if her loses so much as one pound again, i will file.