Help me get over my issues, please!

[boysmom2]

So, I have 3 boys (8, 5, and 1yo) and I really want to hs, I've been trying to convince DH since ds1 was starting kindergarten (he's finishing 2nd grade now). I'm about to make another strong push for it, but I'm a little apprehensive and I think it's mostly for unimportant silly reasons. I think maybe I'm a little nervous about actually taking the plunge and so I'm letting these things bother me. I think I just need someone else to tell me that I'm being silly so I can move on. So here's what I'm worried about:

1. My best friend thinks hsing is a terrible idea. I know this shouldn't bother me, but it does. We've been friends since we were 3 and she's more like a sister. Her opinion has always been probably too important to me. I should really work on that.

2. I belong to a fabulous moms' group at my church that I LOVE and I think I would not be able to go any more. It's once a week on THursday mornings. There is babysitting for toddlers and preschoolers and I LOVE the babysitter. EVeryone is very kind and understanding and probably would not have a problem with me bringing older kids, but I can't imagine that my 5 and 8 yo would want to spend 2 hours with a bunch of babies or sit in the room with the moms. This is probably the biggest issue I have. I just can't say enough about this group and what it means to me. It will be really hard to give up.

3. I'm worried about playdates. Especially for the younger ones. My oldest (8yo) can go to a friend's house on his own, but can't stay home if I need to take one of the younger kids to play at a friend's. How do you work that out?

4. I'm an LLL Leader. My older 2 just cannot behave during meetings, so it's been nice to have them in school while I go.

5. DS2 is 5yo and attends a coop preschool 3 mornings a week. His best friend from preschool will be attending the same ps kindergarten that ds2 would go to. This other boy's mom has been talking excitedly to her son and mine about how they'll be in kindergarten together. I haven't really said anything about it since I don't know yet what we'll be doing. If we hs, I feel like I'll be letting her and her son down. I know it's not about THEM, but I still feel badly.

6. I feel like the moms in our neighborhood will somehow be mad at me. All of our children attend the same ps together now and I'd have to explain why my dcs aren't anymore. I know how stupid this sounds.

I know this is all crazy. I think I just need to get it out to see just how nutty it all is. Thanks for listening.

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by boysmom2

So, I have 3 boys (8, 5, and 1yo) and I really want to hs, I've been trying to convince DH since ds1 was starting kindergarten (he's finishing 2nd grade now). I'm about to make another strong push for it, but I'm a little apprehensive and I think it's mostly for unimportant silly reasons. I think maybe I'm a little nervous about actually taking the plunge and so I'm letting these things bother me. I think I just need someone else to tell me that I'm being silly so I can move on. So here's what I'm worried about:

1. My best friend thinks hsing is a terrible idea. I know this shouldn't bother me, but it does. We've been friends since we were 3 and she's more like a sister. Her opinion has always been probably too important to me. I should really work on that.
what are her REASONS? does she know you and think ______. Like my BF knows me and would worry i would get anxious. Areher worried grounded in fact, and do they reflect something you should think about?

2. I belong to a fabulous moms' group at my church that I LOVE and I think I would not be able to go any more. It's once a week on THursday mornings. There is babysitting for toddlers and preschoolers and I LOVE the babysitter. EVeryone is very kind and understanding and probably would not have a problem with me bringing older kids, but I can't imagine that my 5 and 8 yo would want to spend 2 hours with a bunch of babies or sit in the room with the moms. This is probably the biggest issue I have. I just can't say enough about this group and what it means to me. It will be really hard to give up.
so the bys sit and read, or do puzzle books or so school work or ______ 2 hours once a week -- they can handle it ...special puzzle books or work books or even comic books theyonly get then. legos, drawing paper .... it can be done.
3. I'm worried about playdates. Especially for the younger ones. My oldest (8yo) can go to a friend's house on his own, but can't stay home if I need to take one of the younger kids to play at a friend's. How do you work that out?
so my reply above. 8 yo can learn a lot playing with younger kids.
4. I'm an LLL Leader. My older 2 just cannot behave during meetings, so it's been nice to have them in school while I go.
if they can't behave -- can they learn to? can they go to a buddy's once a month for a meeting? can the meeting be made to evening ...

5. DS2 is 5yo and attends a coop preschool 3 mornings a week. His best friend from preschool will be attending the same ps kindergarten that ds2 would go to. This other boy's mom has been talking excitedly to her son and mine about how they'll be in kindergarten together. I haven't really said anything about it since I don't know yet what we'll be doing. If we hs, I feel like I'll be letting her and her son down. I know it's not about THEM, but I still feel badly.

6. I feel like the moms in our neighborhood will somehow be mad at me. All of our children attend the same ps together now and I'd have to explain why my dcs aren't anymore. I know how stupid this sounds.

I know this is all crazy. I think I just need to get it out to see just how nutty it all is. Thanks for listening.

What are yor reasons FOR homeschooling?

[lach]

Is it out of the question financially to get a sitter or tutor to come for a few hours once or twice a week, so that you can continue with your own life? Either just a regular sitter who will watch them and play with them, or you can take the opportunity to find someone (a local college student, perhaps) who can spend a few hours working with them on a specific interest: a language, or art, or music theory, or science experiments.

People have different opinions on this, but IMO homeschooling doesn't mean that you have to be tied to your kids 24/7. I personally agree that a little bit of separation now and then is healthy for all parties. If you don't want it to, there's absolutely no reason to completely give up your interests and your life. Even if finances are an issue, perhaps you can arrange a "trade" with another homeschooling family for a few hours a week: they take your kids and do group work on something that is that parent's specialty, and you take their kids and do something that's your specialty. Or maybe they just play.

As for naysayers, I think that humility (even if it's false) goes a long way. "We're going to try it for a year and see if it works. Who knows, they'll probably be back in school by Halloween. But it's something that's always intrigued me, and I want to see how it goes." I think if you just repeat this as often as necessary, and always with a chuckle, people won't feel judged and you'll be surprised at how many of your friends have played with this idea too.

[boysmom2]

Thanks. This is what I needed.

1. My best friend thinks hsing is a terrible idea. I know this shouldn't bother me, but it does. We've been friends since we were 3 and she's more like a sister. Her opinion has always been probably too important to me. I should really work on that.
what are her REASONS? does she know you and think ______. Like my BF knows me and would worry i would get anxious. Areher worried grounded in fact, and do they reflect something you should think about?
She doesn't really have reasons. She's my friend and I love her, but sometimes she can be really quick to judge without really considering any facts. Her knee-jerk reaction is that hsers are starved for friends and therefore it's wrong. She loves her dcs' small private school, but that's not an option we have here (not that I'd do it anyway). When I explained to her that our school is huge and then feeds into an even more enormous middle school she conceded that my dcs would not get the same experience of a core group of the same kids for 9 years. She could kind of see my point, but hsing is still wrong. It's about her and her opinions, not about me - I don't think!

2. I belong to a fabulous moms' group at my church that I LOVE and I think I would not be able to go any more. It's once a week on THursday mornings. There is babysitting for toddlers and preschoolers and I LOVE the babysitter. EVeryone is very kind and understanding and probably would not have a problem with me bringing older kids, but I can't imagine that my 5 and 8 yo would want to spend 2 hours with a bunch of babies or sit in the room with the moms. This is probably the biggest issue I have. I just can't say enough about this group and what it means to me. It will be really hard to give up.
so the bys sit and read, or do puzzle books or so school work or ______ 2 hours once a week -- they can handle it ...special puzzle books or work books or even comic books theyonly get then. legos, drawing paper .... it can be done.
This makes me feel better. I was considering this option, but wasn't sure that it was realistic.

3. I'm worried about playdates. Especially for the younger ones. My oldest (8yo) can go to a friend's house on his own, but can't stay home if I need to take one of the younger kids to play at a friend's. How do you work that out?
so my reply above. 8 yo can learn a lot playing with younger kids.
Ok, good to know. I think I need to get out of this mindset of "big kids in school, littles at home."
4. I'm an LLL Leader. My older 2 just cannot behave during meetings, so it's been nice to have them in school while I go.
if they can't behave -- can they learn to? can they go to a buddy's once a month for a meeting? can the meeting be made to evening ...
They do need to learn to behave. My 5yo has, for over a year, been acting out when he feels shy. It's been almost impossible to deal with and it's been really nice to be able to do things like LLL without him. He's getting better though, so I think we just need to work on it more.

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

What are yor reasons FOR homeschooling?

Good question! This is what I probably SHOULD be focusing on!

I have a lot of reasons, actually. My 8yo has been tested as gifted and is in the gifted program at our ps. It's better than the regular curriculum, but it's not great. I would love for him to be able to work at his own level. He used to be a very excited learner, but I think school is killing that in him. He tells me everyday that school is a big fat waste of his time and homework is a constant battle. Before he started school, he and I would spend hours talking about interesting things and learning things together. I would love to get back to that.

My 5yo has not been tested but is clearly beyond kindergarten in his abilities. I would really like to avoid all the wheel-spinning his older brother had to endure.

I think it would be great fun to get to hang out with my dcs all day. By the time ps is over and we get home and have a snack, they play for a few minutes and then it's time for homework, dinner and bed. We don't have time for anything fun.

When my 8yo was in kindergarten he told me he didn't like school because, "Mom, there are lots of things I want to learn about, but I just don't have time." I just really want to give them the time and the space to love learning.

Also, I have a hard time sending my children away for 7 hours a day when I chose to be a stay at home mom. I don't mean to stir up anything here, but it's important to me to be raising my own children. That doesn't stop once they turn 5. 7 hours is a huge portion of their day that I have very little knowledge of and even less control over. IA few examples: I just found out, now that it's MAY, that my 8yo's teacher makes fun of kids when they get an answer wrong in class. Or, it makes me so sad when I pick him up from school on a gorgeous day and ask if they had gym class outside and he says no. What a waste! I just feel like their time could be spent in better ways.

Originally Posted by lach

Is it out of the question financially to get a sitter or tutor to come for a few hours once or twice a week, so that you can continue with your own life? Either just a regular sitter who will watch them and play with them, or you can take the opportunity to find someone (a local college student, perhaps) who can spend a few hours working with them on a specific interest: a language, or art, or music theory, or science experiments.

People have different opinions on this, but IMO homeschooling doesn't mean that you have to be tied to your kids 24/7. I personally agree that a little bit of separation now and then is healthy for all parties. If you don't want it to, there's absolutely no reason to completely give up your interests and your life. Even if finances are an issue, perhaps you can arrange a "trade" with another homeschooling family for a few hours a week: they take your kids and do group work on something that is that parent's specialty, and you take their kids and do something that's your specialty. Or maybe they just play.

As for naysayers, I think that humility (even if it's false) goes a long way. "We're going to try it for a year and see if it works. Who knows, they'll probably be back in school by Halloween. But it's something that's always intrigued me, and I want to see how it goes." I think if you just repeat this as often as necessary, and always with a chuckle, people won't feel judged and you'll be surprised at how many of your friends have played with this idea too.

Thank you for the permission to continue my own things. This Thursday morning thing that I attend is really the only thing I do for myself - and I always have my 1yo with me. It really keeps me sane sometimes!

I think the humility idea might be helpful, though I have never been preachy with my friend.

I think I really just need to take the plunge. I know none of this should really matter.

[Ann15]

I saw your post on the home page and, while I don't have personal experience, I wanted to offer some support since I think I might know you IRL.

I think that if you can get your DH on board and decide that home-schooling is right for your family, other people's opinions don't really matter. As important as your BF's opinion is to you, I'm sure that there are a lot of aspects of parenting that you don't completely agree on. I doubt 32 years of friendship will be ruined if you decide that HS is right for your kids. You know better than anyone else how your own DC learn and why they would benefit from HS. For what it's worth, I'm sure there are a lot of people who will be supportive (your mom, sister?).

As for finding someone to watch your older kids during meetings, what about asking family sometimes? Maybe not every week for your church group, but at least for LLL?

Good luck with your decision and bringing this up with your DH again.

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by boysmom2

Thanks. This is what I needed.

1. My best friend thinks hsing is a terrible idea. I know this shouldn't bother me, but it does. We've been friends since we were 3 and she's more like a sister. Her opinion has always been probably too important to me. I should really work on that.
what are her REASONS? does she know you and think ______. Like my BF knows me and would worry i would get anxious. Areher worried grounded in fact, and do they reflect something you should think about?
She doesn't really have reasons. She's my friend and I love her, but sometimes she can be really quick to judge without really considering any facts. Her knee-jerk reaction is that hsers are starved for friends and therefore it's wrong. She loves her dcs' small private school, but that's not an option we have here (not way). When I explained to her that our school is huge and then feeds into an even more enormous middle school she conceded that my dcs would not get the same experience of a core group of the same kids for 9 years. She could kind of see my point, but hsing is still wrong. It's about her and her opinions, not about me - I don't think!


if it was me, just me here, i would sit down with her (or talk ont eh phone or whatever) and say "hey this is a big decision for me. i hear you not thinking it is good, but i need real feed back. is it just differnt, or do you see a factual concern. help me think through this.

if nothing else -- she will have the typical "cons" and it will give you a good oppertrunity to answer them ...socialzation, level of work, ect ....pratice you will need. Also I find answering the "cons" no matter how over used adn simple -- give me a good oppertunity to refine my thoughts on the matter.



2. I belong to a fabulous moms' group at my church that I LOVE and I think I would not be able to go any more. It's once a week on THursday mornings. There is babysitting for toddlers and preschoolers and I LOVE the babysitter. EVeryone is very kind and understanding and probably would not have a problem with me bringing older kids, but I can't imagine that my 5 and 8 yo would want to spend 2 hours with a bunch of babies or sit in the room with the moms. This is probably the biggest issue I have. I just can't say enough about this group and what it means to me. It will be really hard to give up.
so the bys sit and read, or do puzzle books or so school work or ______ 2 hours once a week -- they can handle it ...special puzzle books or work books or even comic books theyonly get then. legos, drawing paper .... it can be done.
This makes me feel better. I was considering this option, but wasn't sure that it was realistic.

you may have to try differnt things. Maybe they taken an assingment to do alone, then after that they can help with the little kids? or whatever, it make take trial and error to get it to work .. but i know families in real life that work "that way". It is jsut another example of parenting -- and balanceing their behaviors with your life and making expectations clear but still giving them something to do and be occupied too


3. I'm worried about playdates. Especially for the younger ones. My oldest (8yo) can go to a friend's house on his own, but can't stay home if I need to take one of the younger kids to play at a friend's. How do you work that out?
so my reply above. 8 yo can learn a lot playing with younger kids.
Ok, good to know. I think I need to get out of this mindset of "big kids in school, littles at home."

homeschooling is a life style not a "9 to 3" activity. a big bonus of homeschooling is that kids are not divived ...my dear momma buddy has 9 kids... 18 to 9 months ....toss my 2 in there and we have a full mix. The older kids learn a lot by being with the younger ones, as the yonger ones do to. It is a family thing.


4. I'm an LLL Leader. My older 2 just cannot behave during meetings, so it's been nice to have them in school while I go.
if they can't behave -- can they learn to? can they go to a buddy's once a month for a meeting? can the meeting be made to evening ...
They do need to learn to behave. My 5yo has, for over a year, been acting out when he feels shy. It's been almost impossible to deal with and it's been really nice to be able to do things like LLL without him. He's getting better though, so I think we just need to work on it more.

Can they be allowed to sit and read 'away" fromt he meeting (even in the hall) or color. can the shy child be given a figdet toy? I think it can be made to work, and not behaving when mom is hostling an LLL meeting is not really, to me, a reason not to homeschool.


Good question! This is what I probably SHOULD be focusing on!

I have a lot of reasons, actually. My 8yo has been tested as gifted and is in the gifted program at our ps. It's better than the regular curriculum, but it's not great. I would love for him to be able to work at his own level. He used to be a very excited learner, but I think school is killing that in him. He tells me everyday that school is a big fat waste of his time and homework is a constant battle. sounds lke the best readon to homeschool i have heard! Before he started school, he and I would spend hours talking about interesting things and learning things together. I would love to get back to that.

My 5yo has not been tested but is clearly beyond kindergarten in his abilities. I would really like to avoid all the wheel-spinning his older brother had to endure.

I think it would be great fun to get to hang out with my dcs all day. By the time ps is over and we get home and have a snack, they play for a few minutes and then it's time for homework, dinner and bed. We don't have time for anything fun.
another GREAT reason
When my 8yo was in kindergarten he told me he didn't like school because, "Mom, there are lots of things I want to learn about, but I just don't have time." I just really want to give them the time and the space to love learning.

Also, I have a hard time sending my children away for 7 hours a day when I chose to be a stay at home mom. I don't mean to stir up anything here, but it's important to me to be raising my own children. That doesn't stop once they turn 5. 7 hours is a huge portion of their day that I have very little knowledge of and even less control over. IA few examples: I just found out, now that it's MAY, that my 8yo's teacher makes fun of kids when they get an answer wrong in class. Or, it makes me so sad when I pick him up from school on a gorgeous day and ask if they had gym class outside and he says no. What a waste! I just feel like their time could be spent in better ways.



Thank you for the permission to continue my own things. This Thursday morning thing that I attend is really the only thing I do for myself - and I always have my 1yo with me. It really keeps me sane sometimes!

I think the humility idea might be helpful, though I have never been preachy with my friend.

I think I really just need to take the plunge. I know none of this should really matter.

I would suggest you get a hold of some good basic books and read. Homescholing is going to be a shift for you pulling kids home who have been gone, but it sounds like you have great reasons.

[lach]

Originally Posted by boysmom2

Thank you for the permission to continue my own things. This Thursday morning thing that I attend is really the only thing I do for myself - and I always have my 1yo with me. It really keeps me sane sometimes!

I think the humility idea might be helpful, though I have never been preachy with my friend.

I think I really just need to take the plunge. I know none of this should really matter.

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to imply that you're normally preachy! I just meant that this is something that people get touchy about. Not through any fault of your own, but just by selecting a different educational model than the norm, it implies that there's something wrong with the norm. And whether you mean it that way or not, that is how some people read it. So by kind of joking about it and being a bit self-deprecating, I think it can kind of defuse that situation before it even arises. And I only brought this up because you were specifically worried that some other parents (both your friend and your neighbors) might either be critical or assume that you're judging them.

[boysmom2]

Originally Posted by Ann15

I saw your post on the home page and, while I don't have personal experience, I wanted to offer some support since I think I might know you IRL.

I think that if you can get your DH on board and decide that home-schooling is right for your family, other people's opinions don't really matter. As important as your BF's opinion is to you, I'm sure that there are a lot of aspects of parenting that you don't completely agree on. I doubt 32 years of friendship will be ruined if you decide that HS is right for your kids. You know better than anyone else how your own DC learn and why they would benefit from HS. For what it's worth, I'm sure there are a lot of people who will be supportive (your mom, sister?).

As for finding someone to watch your older kids during meetings, what about asking family sometimes? Maybe not every week for your church group, but at least for LLL?

Good luck with your decision and bringing this up with your DH again.

Thank you. You're right that other people's opinions don't matter. I think I'm letting these little things bother me because these are the last issues I have to sort out. I'm pretty convinced that this is what we should do and I have a good idea of how I'd like to go about it, so now I'm obsessing over this stuff.

PMing you...

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

I would suggest you get a hold of some good basic books and read. Homescholing is going to be a shift for you pulling kids home who have been gone, but it sounds like you have great reasons.

Thank you. I do have more reading to do. I've done a lot, but I still have a lot to learn. And, I know, none of these things are reasons NOT to hs, just details I need to work out.

Thanks for all the great ideas and support!

Originally Posted by lach

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to imply that you're normally preachy! I just meant that this is something that people get touchy about. Not through any fault of your own, but just by selecting a different educational model than the norm, it implies that there's something wrong with the norm. And whether you mean it that way or not, that is how some people read it. So by kind of joking about it and being a bit self-deprecating, I think it can kind of defuse that situation before it even arises. And I only brought this up because you were specifically worried that some other parents (both your friend and your neighbors) might either be critical or assume that you're judging them.

Oh, I didn't think you meant I was preachy! I just said that to explain that my friend is really opinionated - even unprovoked! I really have hardly said anything to her about hsing. And I've never even said that I was seriously considering it - just that I think it might be fun or some other non-committal comment like that. I'm really non-confrontational, so I don't really see the point in discussing it unless it's something we're actually going to do. Since I don't have DH on board yet, I haven't shared my thoughts with very many people yet.

I do understand though what you mean about people feeling judged by others' choices that are different. I wonder sometimes if that might be where some of my friend's strong opinions come from.

Thanks so much everybody! I really am excited at the idea of hsing. I think I just need to figure out all the details. And convince DH. Wish me luck!

[HeatherB]

Just wanted to throw my in.

I think your reasons for homeschooling are PERFECT. It's much of why we homeschool, too. Given those reasons, I would absolutely say, go for it!

Regarding having your kids around for daytime activities... It CAN be tricky. I'm glad to be in a church where there are other homeschooling families (not a ton, but it's understood), so that when I was going to a MOPS group, I could have all of my kids attend the kids' program. I would talk to the folks there and see what they can arrange. Is it okay for them to be with the little kids? Bringing their own special activities is a great idea. Maybe there's an adjoining room they can occupy if it seems appropriate.

I'm not part of LLL but know two leaders and have done workshops for them. Both of those leaders are HSing mamas, too, and bring their kids. There are toys in the room, etc. The one time I took my kids when I was doing a presentation, I took activities just for them. There are definitely options, though I do understand behavioral issues that can make it a challenge!

For playdates, I just take them all. We don't do a lot of playdates that aren't with other friends who are HSers, too, so it's not a big issue. But if someone invites my middle DS over, I say, "Well, I have to bring my other boys, too." Either they're okay with that, or not.

Do you have any homeschool groups in your area? Those are often good for socializing. We have done several classes that have been organized by our group, and have made some friends that way.

I think the benefits for learning at home are HUGE, especially as you describe your children. Fostering that love of learning is *awesome*. It's so much fun to see them learning about what THEY want to learn about.

And, there will always be bumps in the road. It's not easy, even when it is fun. But it can be REALLY awesome, and I always feel like it's worth it. So don't be discouraged even if your first year isn't "perfect." We have taken it one year at a time, and told people that. It's a great "excuse" that gets them off your back when they think homeschooling = 12 years! It also gives you an "out" if it doesn't work (whether you really think you'll use it, or not). This is our third year, and we're still reevaluating every year how we do it. Thankfully, at this point, we're pretty committed to sticking it out, though.

Hope your adventure is a great one!

[boysmom2]

Originally Posted by HeatherB

Just wanted to throw my in.

I think your reasons for homeschooling are PERFECT. It's much of why we homeschool, too. Given those reasons, I would absolutely say, go for it!

Regarding having your kids around for daytime activities... It CAN be tricky. I'm glad to be in a church where there are other homeschooling families (not a ton, but it's understood), so that when I was going to a MOPS group, I could have all of my kids attend the kids' program. I would talk to the folks there and see what they can arrange. Is it okay for them to be with the little kids? Bringing their own special activities is a great idea. Maybe there's an adjoining room they can occupy if it seems appropriate.

I'm not part of LLL but know two leaders and have done workshops for them. Both of those leaders are HSing mamas, too, and bring their kids. There are toys in the room, etc. The one time I took my kids when I was doing a presentation, I took activities just for them. There are definitely options, though I do understand behavioral issues that can make it a challenge!

For playdates, I just take them all. We don't do a lot of playdates that aren't with other friends who are HSers, too, so it's not a big issue. But if someone invites my middle DS over, I say, "Well, I have to bring my other boys, too." Either they're okay with that, or not.

Do you have any homeschool groups in your area? Those are often good for socializing. We have done several classes that have been organized by our group, and have made some friends that way.

I think the benefits for learning at home are HUGE, especially as you describe your children. Fostering that love of learning is *awesome*. It's so much fun to see them learning about what THEY want to learn about.

And, there will always be bumps in the road. It's not easy, even when it is fun. But it can be REALLY awesome, and I always feel like it's worth it. So don't be discouraged even if your first year isn't "perfect." We have taken it one year at a time, and told people that. It's a great "excuse" that gets them off your back when they think homeschooling = 12 years! It also gives you an "out" if it doesn't work (whether you really think you'll use it, or not). This is our third year, and we're still reevaluating every year how we do it. Thankfully, at this point, we're pretty committed to sticking it out, though.

Hope your adventure is a great one!

Thank you, thank you! I think I'm just starting to panic a little because I think I'm getting closer to a decision about this. Thanks for all the great ideas and support. Just need to get dh on board! Maybe tonight...

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by boysmom2

Thank you, thank you! I think I'm just starting to panic a little because I think I'm getting closer to a decision about this. Thanks for all the great ideas and support. Just need to get dh on board! Maybe tonight...

took 3 years or my DH to get on board