This really frustrates me. - Page 2

[Happiestever]

I hear ya.
What work for us probably won't work for others. And likewise what works now may not work for us in the future. This is how we grow, people need to learn from my bumper sticker- Minds are like papachutes, they only work when open.

[lalemma]

Vaccinating is a weird issue in particular. It's really hard to have a conversation about it that doesn't boil down to "You're wrong!" "No, YOU'RE wrong!" - because I think that often for the pro-vax people, it seems like... oh, the Prisoner's Dilemma: it seems unfair for someone to opt out of the herd, but still profit. But the anti-vax person of course thinks, well, this is the choice I'm making for my family because I think it's best, I don't know what to tell you.

I try pretty hard not to talk about vaccines on the internet. I don't really know how else to handle it.

[Tigerchild]

Generally, especially on the internet, when I see that someone has said "I'll never understand why XYZ", I know that whatever comment they are making about XYZ, their statement is rhetorical. They don't really care what you think or why. If someone really wants to understand, they'll most likely say, directly to you, "Why do you do ABC?" or "I want to know more about ABC."

Unless I'm wanting to fight or engage in debate/wordplay (don't get me wrong, I want to about 98 percent of the time, but let's face it, I'm a bit of a jerk) with someone...I refrain from answering rhetorical questions or statements. Not worth the bother, and probably not worth throwing it down on someone else's FB or nice chatty thread. (though hey, everyone has to succumb to the itchy typing fingers syndrome sometimes, right?)

[mattemma04]

I remember these issues coming up when the kids were younger about circ,bfing,birthing,schooling,food...and so on.Recently the kids have gotten questions about God and religion from classmates.That is a tough one to answer.I think my dd responded with it being a personal matter that she prefers not to discuss publicly.

[Landover]

This is funny about the effort. Sometimes the best thing for your family is to make the choice that requires the least effort because it means more family time, etc. Or the best choice, in someone else's opinion, may look like less effort to you. For example, I researched, read, read, and read and decided that vaxing was the best option. It isn't always that those who have put forth more "effort" don't vax. I know lots of informed folks who do vax and many who don't. The vaxing is just one example. Some nights, like last night, we order pizza and hang out. It isn't organic, local or even remotely healthy, but it was certainly the best thing for my family on that night.

I really don't think that it comes down to a subconscious feeling like those who don't vax are better parents (I certainly do not think that at all). In fact, to say that sounds a little judgmental in that one who does do those things thinks they put more effort into their families. I think it is *that* attitude of superiority that people begrudge more then anything else.

[carfreemama]

Yes, Landover, thank you. It was a perfect example to me when a pp mentioned that certain things require more "effort" and that's why most people don't do them. When I got to the "homeschooling" one, I felt that same defensiveness. I did not choose to send Dd to school because it required less effort. I had lots of reasons which, frankly, would take too long and be too personal to defend to almost anyone. And I don't feel I should have to. That said, I am quite involved in dd's school and plan to be more so. I WAH full time and she is one of only two kids in her primary class who come home for lunch. I start work at 5 a.m. and make 4 round-trips a day walking her back and forth to school. It is actually often easier on days when there is no school, to work with her here and not have to do all the back-and-forth. Homeschooling would probably not take much extra effort.

That said, I could easily inadvertently make parents who have to/want to have their children in lunch programs and after-school care feel bad about those decisions. I bring dd home for lunch because I can and she wants to and I really like seeing her in the middle of the day. Most people don't have that option and of the ones I've spoken to who do, most think it's better for their kids to have lunch with their peers; or they have younger siblings at home and lunchtime is right when they nap or have other activities. Nothing to do with effort. Getting to really know other families is one of the best ways to understand their different choices.

[karika]

Originally Posted by BarnMomma

I experience it constantly and my theory is that it comes down to measuring effort in our minds.

Certain choices require much more effort on part of the parent than other choices. For example, breastfeeding- you are signing your body up to be relied upon by a child longer than 9 months and as such you might have to make certain sacrifices such as alcohol consumption, or doing body cleanses, or not having the luxury of just having DH popping a bottle into baby's mouth at 3AM. It takes effort.

Not vaxing- chances are that parentsd have read and read and read and read and read and researched and researched and again, spent a huge deal of effort learning about the vaccines, their production, diseases, and the consequences. That kind of a decision takes effort.

Organic/whole foods/local eating habbits- same thing. It takes effort. It takes more effort than pushing around a grocery cart at walmart or costco.

Same with cloth diapers, homeschooling, not doing CIO, co sleeping...all take a little extra effort and sometime require small sacrifices on behalf of the parent.

Sometimes I think people feel judged simply by hearing mention of these types of parenting choices because it screams out at them "YOU JUST DON'T BOTHER, BUT I DO -SO I'M THE BETTER PARENT!!!!" And they become defensive.

well put! I agree. I have this happen to me all the time in other places besides MDC. I have come to realize I feel safest when I mostly stay here. I have lost a long time friend over her parenting choices and my judgment of them (she lives on east coast so we had been diminished to email friends but still...) I think it does boil down to them being defensive for not investigating and following the protocol laid out by the companies that make money from them following the protocol... I was one of those people myself once (I speak of the parents that simply did not research which is probably 98%. Most just get the shots because the doctor, the tv, the media, the makers and various agencies say they should, NOT because they read how they were made and with what ingredients and the pink book). I find the people most receptive are those that are 'alternative' in some way or other. Maybe they believe in parallel universes, ancient astronauts, environmental issues, or health through good food... those are the ones that may listen. I have also learned that although I believe a certain thing is completely true, that the people that don't are playing their part in the big screenplay of life somehow too. Maybe a new race of humans will emerge due to the toxins injected and prescribed by pharma. I believe firmly that there is some plan and that we are all on our own path perfectly. I still tell people all I have learned in these last seven years as much as possible (online I mean, I do not have many interactions IRL because I am a homebody) because I feel it is my duty to share the information I have. gg.... baby.. lol or toddler get tired me typing

[mistymama]

Originally Posted by r&mmommy

Maybe I'm in the minority, but when someone comes out with a statement like that, I just nod and smile. I find saying anything puts people on the defensive. They have their minds made up, and I know nothing I say will change it. It's like when I was BF'ing and said I was tired. What was the advice? "You should FF! Then DH can help!"
Now, if they said something like "I beat the stuffing out of my kids for their own good!" I would speak up. But someone who is chosing to vax, or bottle feed? Eh, not worth it. I did have a hairdresser once who told me she didn't BF because "her boobs were for her husband" which made me somewhat nauseated. Um, thanks for the overshare!

I'm the very same way. I know very few people IRL that parent the way I do, and I'm not about to change their minds by saying anything. Like you, unless there is something abusive going on, I'm not interested in making choices for other people's kids - only my own. The differences in parenting styles becomes much less obvious as your children age ... but I'm reminded again of just how "different" I am now that I'm pregnant again. And it's funny because I'm not nearly as crunchy as most people on MDC.

As far as the effort post goes .. I must gently disagree. I put TONS of research into my choices with ds, and sometimes what you think might be the "easier" option is actually the option that I feel works best for him. Public school for example. We explored Waldorf, private and homeschooling. We might homeschool in the future, but for now he's in public school. He has Aspergers and the district we made sure we were in (still live in an apartment to afford living in it!!!) has wonderful services that greatly benefit him. Occupational therapy, social skills, etc that I just couldn't give him at home. It's much more work for us to send him to this school than live wherever we wanted and homeschool, but I have no doubt at this time it's what is best for him.

OP, I think sometimes this all boils down to the "Mommy wars" - people feel defensive if you do things differently than they do, because YES, often Moms judge and can be harsh with eachother. I don't care or judge how other people raise their children, and I don't care what they think about how I'm raising mine. We all love our children and more often than not, we are all doing what we feel is best for them.

[r&mmommy]

This is funny about the effort. Sometimes the best thing for your family is to make the choice that requires the least effort because it means more family time, etc. Or the best choice, in someone else's opinion, may look like less effort to you. For example, I researched, read, read, and read and decided that vaxing was the best option. It isn't always that those who have put forth more "effort" don't vax. I know lots of informed folks who do vax and many who don't. The vaxing is just one example. Some nights, like last night, we order pizza and hang out. It isn't organic, local or even remotely healthy, but it was certainly the best thing for my family on that night.

I really don't think that it comes down to a subconscious feeling like those who don't vax are better parents (I certainly do not think that at all). In fact, to say that sounds a little judgmental in that one who does do those things thinks they put more effort into their families. I think it is *that* attitude of superiority that people begrudge more then anything else.

I agree.
I also hope my inital post didn't come across as "my way is better." I think (for the most part) that many people put a good deal of thought and effort in to their choices, even if it's not what I have chosen. When I first replied, I was thinking more of those people who will come out at a party and say something to the effect of "People who homeschool are stunting their children!" or like my hairdresser who declared to one and all that her breasts were for her husband...
But I also tend to avoid people who speak in absolutes like that regardless of where they fall in parenting style.