decision-making vent

[simplemama32]

I tried to avoid making this post because I really don't want to be a downer, but I just need to get this out.

H and I have been separated for almost 6 weeks now, and while I'm still pretty sure that it was the right decision to leave (and there have been so many signs that I'm on the right track), I'm having so much trouble trusting my instincts. H said I'm a quitter, and says he is deeply hurt by my "betrayal." I understand that he's terribly hurt, and it makes me sick to my stomach to think I'm the cause of it. *However,* I've been the good wife for going on 12 years, and I've let him know about my unhappiness and my view of our issues (i.e., we need to separate/divorce if we can't work it out), etc. for at least a year. So it really hurts ME that he thinks I just came out of nowhere with this separation and "betrayed his trust."

NOW he wants to talk and go on dates and go to counseling. He thinks we need to learn to communicate better (I've been saying that for years! ), as well as explore the cause of our relationship problems...as in -- what *I* think the supposed problems are because, obviously, there are no *real* problems. So, to that end, I've had a few conversations with him, trying to offer reasons and explanations for why I feel the way I do, and everything I say is met with an excuse, disbelief, or turned around to be my fault (or at least for me to share equal blame with him). And trust me...I am already pretty excruciatingly aware of my flaws and the part I've played in our downfall.

I've tried to explain that, to me, one of the major issues in our relationship is his constant depression and negativity...the term I used is that he has a "glass half-empty" outlook. His response to that was to say it sounded basically like psycho-babble, he didn't understand what I meant by that, and he needed specific examples. I actually try to stay away from giving specific examples of past behaviour because I feel like it's rehashing the past and because I don't want to hurt him any more than I already have. If I was in his shoes, I would maybe want a general explantion, but I wouldn't want my spouse to list all of the numerous times he thought I was an awful person, you know?

Anyway, against my better judgement (and because I was frustrated and upset), I did end up giving him an example about another one of our issues, and his reaction was like "Aha! You have hidden anger issues and haven't let this incident go yet!, PLUS you did the exact same thing to me recently!!"

(Long story short...About a year and a half ago, I ended up with horrible mastitis when DS was 7 months old, and H left me (to go hunting) with the baby after I'd spent the night throwing up, had a high fever, and could barely get out of bed. I was a little PO'd. This is supposed to compare to me "abandoning him" recently when he had a stomach virus. The only difference being that when he was sick, DS was at my parents' house, and I'd tucked H under a blanket and made sure that meds, snacks, drink, and remote were all within reach before I went to the grocery store and the drugstore to get him more medicine and other essentials. And I was back in time to make his lunch.)

Anyway, I don't mean to rant about this (although I obviously need to vent! ) . I just honestly don't know what to do. Should I keep trying to talk to H about things? He's making me feel so guilty for not wanting to work things out (although, in my book, I've already been trying for a long time), but I know he deserves an explanation. He's a decent guy...I think we could stay amicable...but I find myself wanting to scream, "Please let me go!" every time we have one of these big conversations/arguments.

And then he'll act nice, and I'll turn right back around and think maybe I shouldn't be so hard on him...maybe if I say the right thing, he'll "get it" this time...maybe if I approach him the right way, at the right moment, we could work it out. Ugh, this is so exhausting...

[doubledutch]

he had plenty of chances to work on stuff before you left. it wasn't important enough to him when you were there, and it won't be anymore once you go back - so don't.

"everything I say is met with an excuse, disbelief, or turned around to be my fault (or at least for me to share equal blame with him)" . . ."it sounded basically like psycho-babble, he didn't understand what I meant by that" . . . "You have hidden anger issues and haven't let this incident go yet!, PLUS you did the exact same thing to me recently!"

he has NO intention of taking responsibility for his share of the relationship problems to actually work toward change.

you don't owe him any more explanations. choose a few short, clear statement and stick with those. like, i'm done, it's over, there's nothing else to talk about.

[meemee]

he is 'feeding' off of you.

however you decide. if this is all he IS saying to get you BACK then do you think there is anything to get better.

you have given it 12 years. do you think your 'relationship' needs any more years?

i would say put some space between you and him. dont get into any conversation except for the minimum. they take care of yourself and do what you want to do, or figure out what you want to do - whether in life or in the moment. just find 'you' again and then come back and look and see if you need further work on your relationship.

[simplemama32]

Thanks for the reality check, ladies. Part of me knows what I have to do...it's just so hard to admit it, even to myself.

doubledutch -- wow, that's tough seeing my own words/his words repeated back to me (much needed toughness). If it were a friend of mine, instead of me, I'd probably be wondering what there was to decide...just go! :-(

[Sunflower66]

Having recently ended a mariage where everying was always my fault, any issues that my ex husband had somehow resulted in him pointing out my inability to do or be xyz, it sounds to me from your post that you know that you made the right decision and his refusal or inability to take responsibility for his own actions/inactions only underscore that decision.

He is grasping for straws to make you feel responsible. As long as he cannot recognize and aknowledge his part, you will always be left with less than you deserve. Try to believe in yourself and do what is right for you.

I am sending good thoughts and energy your way.

B.

[*MamaJen*]

Oh yeah. My abusive ex played the abandonment card for all it was worth, really throwing it in my face that I was abandoning him, betraying him, not giving him a chance to fix his problems, etc, etc.
It's so important to have mental clarity. Once your mind is clear, you can see that you're not abandoning him -- you're acting in a perfectly logical reaction to his unacceptable actions. When someone treats you badly for a long stretch of time, and shows no sign of ever trying to take responsibility or change, the sane thing to do is to leave them.
Have you read up on emotional abuse? A lot of the things that you're saying are ringing those bells, especially your descriptions of him refusing to take responsibility for his actions and emotions and blaming his own actions/emotions on you. Also, the idea of the cycle of abuse might be really helpful to you. Nearly every abusive situation, including emotional abuse, includes a "honeymoon phase" between outbursts where the abuser is sweet as can be, promises to change, says all the right things, and so on. Only it's not actual change, just another phase in the cycle.
You know the Al-Anon motto? It's meant for dealing with alcoholics, but I think it's really useful looking at emotional abuse as well.
You didn't cause it.
You can't cure it.
You can't control it.

[simplemama32]

Hi Jen -- I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it abuse. I have read an article here or there about emotional abuse because I did wonder, but our situation doesn't seem to be quite as severe as what they mentioned. I have wondered if he has undiagnosed ADD or even Asperger's because he displays symptoms of each, but that could also be me grasping at straws...

Honestly, I don't think I'm clear about much right now, except for knowing that I'm not clear!

[Jenne]

Okay, it sounds like he is grasping at straws. But if you are willing to give this one last shot it might give you the ability to confident and sure of your decision--regardless of how things wind up.

My suggestion is to tell your h that you'd be happy to go to counseling with him (I'd recommend specifying an LMFT because Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist have intensive training dealing specifically with marriage and family issues). *HE* needs to call and make the appointment with the counselor of *HIS* choice. You can give him a time line if you'd like, like 2 weeks. Then pay no attention to what he says and only to what he does. He'll either step up to the plate and try to save his marriage or he'll have a laundry list of excuses of why he can't.

If he doesn't, there you go, he may say he wants to work on things but his actions don't show that. It isn't hard to find a therapist. He wasn't willing. You can then go about your life knowing that you were willing and put the ball in his court and he was all talk. That isn't what you want in a partner.

If he does make an appointment take some time and write a letter/list of what you want and need in a relationship. Not in specifics ala "When I have mastitis don't be a UAV and leave me sick with the baby to go hunting," instead "I want a partner who is able to meet my expressed needs or collaborate with me to have my needs met." Include in your letter/list what you are willing to do to work on your marriage--some ideas, go on weekly dates that he plans, take his call X number of times a day/week, accept emails, attend counseling--whatever feels correct to you and meets your needs. Also include a list of what you aren't willing to do--Argue, have drawn out negative conversations--again whatever is true for you. Include what you need him to do--attend personal counseling, marriage therapy, parent--whatever you need. Then at that first counseling session you can share that with him and the counselor. If he respects your wishes with his *behavior* it indicates he is willing to change. If he balks or is all talk, again, you have given concrete requests which he has ignored.

This helped me immensely to be able to break the mental/emotional connection and see his behavior for what it was--all talk--and not draw things out unnecessarily.

Hugs mama! This is such a tough place to be in! I wish you peace with whatever you decide and however you proceed.

Jenne

ETA- I just noticed the title was *vent* if the advice is unwanted, I apologize!

[simplemama32]

Hi Jenne -- Oh, don't worry! I'll definitely listen to and appreciate advice. :-)

I left it out of the original post, but we actually went through about 6 months of counseling last year. Well, and by "we", I mean that he refused to go at first, so I went alone. I was able to talk him into going maybe 3 times (?), and I didn't think those sessions were productive at all.

I think your suggestion to put the ball in his court and have him find a counselor of his own choice is a good one. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't follow through, or if he did, he would at least moan and groan, and dawdle, and act like he was being tortured through the whole process.

Past experience has taught me that he is mostly talk, so I'm wary to trust him this time. I just don't have the energy to go through much more of this. Already, during the brief time we've been separated, I've asked him to please not try to hold my hand or hug me (I'm not trying to be petty...those just feel like "loving couple" things to me, and we're not really a couple right now, in my book), and he still does it, then says he "forgot" or "can't help it."

[*MamaJen*]

Originally Posted by simplemama32

Honestly, I don't think I'm clear about much right now, except for knowing that I'm not clear!

Knowing that you're not happy with him and he's treating you badly without taking steps to change is all the knowledge you need.