whole word reading? - Page 2

[ktgrok]

that made me laugh. I read the entire Trixie Belden series twice before someone clued me in that the last name was BELden, not BLENDen. Oh, and that the older brother's name was Brian, not Brain. (he was really smart, so Brain made sense to me). But hey, I was reading two books a day in the 3rd grade, so messing up some names didn't seem important.

[yllek]

Originally Posted by ktgrok

I also learned to read by sight reading. I learned phonics AFTER being able to read very well, and have always read above grade level. Now I read faster/more/better than anyone know. And I LOVE reading. I've read things that say that people that learned by sight reading enjoy reading more than those that learned by phonics.

This is the case with my son. He seems to have learned to read most things by sight, and I am also doing phonics with him, just making explicit the phonics concepts that he has already picked up. He is 5 and reads at about a mid-second grade level. He also has SPD with some vision processing issues, so I'm pretty psyched that his reading level is where it is. He also LOVES reading and LOVES phonics, but he has definitely learned to read without systematic phonics.

An example: the other day, we were reading a book about ocean animals (a favorite topic of his), and we were getting to word that I just knew he wouldn't be able to read. I was going to help him with a phonetic word attack strategy when he paused for a just a second before reading "bioluminescent" and continuing with the rest of the sentence. He has never seen that word (I don't think), but he just read it, probably surmising the correct words from the context. I still went back to break up the word, pretending that I needed to sound it out, and he was tickled that he could teach me all about the ability of some animals to glow in the dark.

Anyway, I wanted to mention to the OP that there are ways of teaching systematic phonics without being dry, boring and repetitive. One thing that seems to be missing from many of the more commonly available phonics programs is work with phonemic awareness. It's pretty important that these skills are well in place before tackling phonics instruction. We did lots of silly phonemic awareness activities with ds from ages 2-4. Very informal, 30-second games in the car, while riding in the grocery cart, etc.

One of my favorite resources for a sight reader who is also learning phonics is Words Their Way. I'm going to totally oversimplify the program when I say that basically the student sorts a bunch of words to illustrate a phonics pattern. There's more to it than that, but that is the principal activity. The words are carefully selected so that the student is distinguishing a particular pattern that underlies how those words are constructed. It's perfect for a sight reader because for this activity to be effective, the student really ought to know how to read the words that are being sorted. The student is getting some practice reading what are basically flashcards, but the activity is more cognitively challenging because she is also "discovering" the phonics behind those words. There is usually one or two "oddball" words that are thrown into the mix, something that doesn't fit the two categories of the sort. After the sort, the student and teacher discuss the pattern and the oddballs. There are also several phonics games, writing activities, word hunts, and other high-interest activities to reinforce and practice the phonics lesson.

I also use the center activities at the Florida Center for Reading Research. They are a fabulous resource for reinforcing phonics. There are board games, word sliders, manipulatives, word dice, word flip notebooks, phonemic awareness games... It's just a treasure trove of print-and-go activities. Between the two of these, ds5 actually cheers when we do a phonics activity for homeschool.

Anyway, I think that it's great that you are attending to the specific ways that your child learns. It's one of the great advantages of homeschooling that we can tailor instruction to our individual children.

[numericmama]

I don't know a lot about learning to read yet. We are using Enki so at 6.5 years old, I am taking a relaxed attitude. My main concern is actually turning my child off to reading and making him feel too much stress around the whole activity. I am offering a few different types of ways to learn to read. I figure that one of them will click in at some point before he is 9. My understanding is that phonics works for 80% of the kids, but what about the other 20%? Meanwhile, my main concern is that he feel comfortable, confident and not afraid or stressed about reading. When I hear that your daughter is crying while she is being taught, then I am concerned. Perhaps you should back off for a while and let her rest AND grow. Maybe that will allow her to calm down a little. Meanwhile, research different ways of learning while keeping up reading picture books to her and then come back in the Fall and try again.

Also, maybe you should research a dyslexia diagnosis, see if she is at the age they start to worry about it yet. Another that I hear about is eye tracking, which matures within age 7 and 8 for most kids. Until it kicks in correctly it is hard for a kid to learn to read. Perhaps that is another direction to look in. My kid can't eye track yet, that is for sure!

Sorry things are so stressful and upsetting!

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by numericmama

When I hear that your daughter is crying while she is being taught, then I am concerned. Perhaps you should back off for a while and let her rest AND grow.

I think you are misquoting or merging a few posters. I never said she was crying while I tried to get her to read. She doesn't. Do not get me wrong - she does not want to read, but there is no crying involved.

As per whether to back off or not - it is something I have seriously pondered. I have no magic ball that tells me what to do, so I research, ponder and trust my instincts. That's all I can do.


Interesting about the eye tracking, though!

[WordSmart]

Whole word/phonics or both?

Here's some thoughts from a reading specialist.
Both methods of reading are recommended. Whole word instruction to learn the irregular sight words and phonics instruction to expand those sight words. By the time a child is in 3rd grade, the volume of the words increases dramatically and if that child does not have some phonics skills, he/she can't easily expand his/her sight vocabulary. As to misreading words, try this trick: when the child misreads the word "house" as "horse" do what's called "error correct". Say "I heard you say 'horse' but I see 'house'. Where was your error?" This raising of the child's awareness is critical - they need to find their error by themselves but with your prompts. It does not work to correct the word for them when they read incorrectly. Don't do this with every error but do it periodically. Another idea is to have the child look at the error word or new word first on a card and then have him visualize it with his eyes closed. With his eyes closed, ask him what the second letter is or what the hanging down letter is at the end of the word. If he can't remember the letters in the word, he can look back at the card. But unless he can then tell you the sequence of the letters in the word with his eyes shut, he has not stored the word in long term memory for retrieval. Keep up the good work! From WordSmart.

[Multimomma]

Originally Posted by jessicaSAR

The real question is, is there any evidence that a sight word recognition program can help a struggling reader? What phonics programs and OG programs are doing is teaching the child's brain to efficiently process the written code. Their brains are being taught to do what some brains already do naturally.

yes, there is. The Edmark program has been used for over 40 years for typical and atypical students. There has been long term studies done, as well as recent meta analysis that has shown for many students who struggle to learn, sight words (like Dolche) is a beneficial place to start. Assistive technology by means of visual drawings and/or interactive programming increases the benefit. Here is a good summary to the studies that have been done. We used this for several of our children, and they progressed smoothly from sight word to phonics at a later age, and read smoothly now. It took being successful at sight words, to have the confidence and understanding of phonics.

[numericmama]

You're right, that was someone else mentioning crying! I also wonder if it's something I pulled from my memory when my sister was learning to read. I think it was pretty frustrating for her and my Mom.

[jessicaSAR]

Originally Posted by Multimomma

yes, there is. The Edmark program has been used for over 40 years for typical and atypical students. There has been long term studies done, as well as recent meta analysis that has shown for many students who struggle to learn, sight words (like Dolche) is a beneficial place to start. Assistive technology by means of visual drawings and/or interactive programming increases the benefit. Here is a good summary to the studies that have been done. We used this for several of our children, and they progressed smoothly from sight word to phonics at a later age, and read smoothly now. It took being successful at sight words, to have the confidence and understanding of phonics.

The Edmark research only demonstrates that the program has some qualified success in helping mentally retarded students reach a very basic level of literacy. I think your experience is exactly right: eventually students must progress to some level of phonics mastery if they are to move beyond basic reading and become proficient readers.

The literacy problem in the US is not just about the students who cannot read at all. It is more importantly about the large percentage of the population, high school and college graduates alike, who are simply not proficient at reading, who are never able to read beyond a fifth or sixth grade level. When I think about what type of reading instruction I want for my child and for all children, this is what I am considering. What is the best way to get students beyond functional literacy to real reading proficiency. All the research I have seen shows that in order to do that you have to teach phonics.

[elizawill]

kathy, i've not read through all of the responses. i did want to mention though that my daughter at age 7 also did the same types of things your little girl is doing. she would just "fill in" words while she was reading. for my daughter, it wasn't about whole word reading (although she does do that too), but rather, we needed to go back to the beginning of phonics and review. we did hooked on phonics first grade and second grade. there were sounds or rules that i thought she already knew, but she really didn't. that's why she was filling in words and guessing at things all of the time. it made the world of difference for her to step back and review (what in my mind), seemed to be the obvious. like i said though, i'm not saying this is where your own child is at. i just wanted to mention we had a similar experience in our home, but it was gaps in her phonics that caused it.

anyway, this was our situation hth.

[Multimomma]

Jessica,
While many of the students who succeed on Edmark have developmental delays or low IQs, there are several studies that have been done on children who are NOT disabled. For example, Mayfield (2000) was for students that were at risk, not disabled.
You asked if there was any evidence that sight reading was beneficial for a struggling reader. Yes, there is. It's even beneficial for children who are not struggling. Most kids who learn to read with sight words make the connection between the letters and the sounds, and move on to phonics when the are older. Kids who are forced to use phonics, when their brains struggle against that type of learning, are going to fall farther behind. It's a vicious circle that schools are struggling with right now, because once a particular curriculum is purchased, it's very difficult to get the school or teacher to teach outside of that particular program. Once the kid fails, they lose interest in trying, and become those nonreaders that you are concerned about. In early ages, success is most important. The brain is not so static that it can't switch from sight words to phonics, especially since there are so many words that don't make sense phonetically and must be memorized.

[jessicaSAR]

Originally Posted by Multimomma

While many of the students who succeed on Edmark have developmental delays or low IQs, there are several studies that have been done on children who are NOT disabled. For example, Mayfield (2000) was for students that were at risk, not disabled.
You asked if there was any evidence that sight reading was beneficial for a struggling reader. Yes, there is. It's even beneficial for children who are not struggling. Most kids who learn to read with sight words make the connection between the letters and the sounds, and move on to phonics when the are older. Kids who are forced to use phonics, when their brains struggle against that type of learning, are going to fall farther behind. It's a vicious circle that schools are struggling with right now, because once a particular curriculum is purchased, it's very difficult to get the school or teacher to teach outside of that particular program. Once the kid fails, they lose interest in trying, and become those nonreaders that you are concerned about. In early ages, success is most important. The brain is not so static that it can't switch from sight words to phonics, especially since there are so many words that don't make sense phonetically and must be memorized.

Sight words may give a temporary sense of success, but it is only the illusion of reading. A child may learn a couple thousand sight words, but by the time they reach 3rd or 4th grade, they need to be able to read unfamiliar words and they have no strategies for doing so. The overwhelming majority of current research on reading does not support sight word acquisition. On the contrary, students who have learned the recommended sight words without phonics have more trouble learning phonics because they have to relearn how to look at and process a word. And, I think it is unfair and unnecessary to expect children to "figure out" phonics on their own when we know how to systematically teach the structure of this language.

And, almost all the words typically taught as sight words can be taught phonetically. Check out the interviews and research links here

http://www.childrenofthecode.org/interviews/index.htm

I agree that changing the curriculum in schools is a difficult challenge and often a vicious cycle. But, the research clearly shows that teaching systematic phonics right from the beginning is most effective way to teach reading. The challenge is to get all the wishy-washy whole language curricular materials out the of schools and to retrain all the teachers who have never learned how to teach phonics systematically.

[kathymuggle]

I want to thank eveyone for their input. I truly appreciate it and it has given me lots of food for thought.

Kathy

[lach]

Jessica, I don't think that anyone on here is disagreeing with what you are saying.

However, there are several of us saying that no method is best for every single child. While the vast, vast majority of children may follow exactly what you describe, there are always a handful of "difficult" kids who never got the memo about what they should be doing. (And I say that VERY tongue in cheek, as a former "difficult" child myself).

I feel like no one would be disagreeing with this if we were talking about any other subject or topic. Despite the fact that most newborns love being worn, a quick trip to a baby wearing thread on here will show a bunch of mothers who swear that they spend a thousand dollars on eighty different carriers and their child was only happy in the bucket seat looking around from day one. Despite the fact that most kids learn to walk better in soft-soled shoes, I have a friend whose son had some sort of arch condition and NEEDED the old-fashioned hard-soled toddler shoes in order to support his weight. Despite the fact that most of us agree that intensive "drill and kill" style math learning turns kids off of math, I think we all know at least one kid whose idea of a good time is having their parents shoot multiplication flash cards at them.

I'm sort of surprised that OP and those supportive of her are getting so much resistance to the idea that maybe there are some kids out there who and can't learn to read the way that research does indeed say is best. I really feel like if there were any other subject, people would be saying that different things work for different kids. That is, after all, one of the best things about home schooling and a major, or even primary, reason that many people home school!

[Multimomma]

Thank you Lach, I think you summed it up. I'm not disagreeing that phonics is important, but it's not the best way for every single child to begin learning to read. For some children, starting with sight words, and then moving into phonics as they have success, is going to work better. It's not saying that every single child in America should do sight words. It's also not saying that kids who start with sight words should be left to flounder at fourth grade rather than being helped into phonics.
I thought the thread was about children who were struggling with learning to read in a typical phonics program. My advice came from a homeschooling standpoint, with several children who started from sight words and read fluently (and phonetically) now.

[scheelimama]

Haven't read the whole thread, but...I read this thread a day or two ago and was just watching t.v. and thought that the "Your Baby Can Read" series is whole word based and might help. :

[chfriend]

Here's an idea: a We Can Read collage: http://www.share2learn.com/classroomtourk1.html

from a k teacher in a building school. Seems like it might be a confidence booster.

My phonics resister really wanted to read kid liked www.progressivephonics.com. She's a delightfully social learner which made that way of learning work for her.

Plus it's free, so if it doesn't work, you're out some paper and ink.

[Leersia]

I'm a little late on this thread, but I had to throw my 2 cents worth in, based on my experience with both my father and my son. Both are strong visual-spatial learners, who, from what I've read, have a difficult time with phonics because they are "whole-to-part" learners. My father, who as an adult is mechanically gifted and a very successful businessman, struggled in school as a young child, especially with reading. One of his teachers pulled him aside one day and said - "You're just going to have to memorize all the words." To this day, he has a hard time sounding out an unfamiliar word when he is reading, after a 1950s public school education.

I see many of the same qualities in my son (creative, spatial, etc.), and am not teaching him phonics in order to get him started in reading. He is almost 8, and it has been a total failure so far. His fraternal twin brother took off with reading after one Hooked on Phonics box, but their brain wiring is SO different. So far, we have been having some limited success with a reader that used word pyramids:

He
He likes
He likes this
He likes this one
He likes this one and. ..

where I read the orange word. The repetition helps a lot. And there's no real chance for failure, and it minimizes guessing. Guessing words and getting them wrong, I've read, is not good for visual-spatial learners, as they then store it incorrectly in their memory.

I hope to teach my son phonics some day when he has gained some reading proficiency, but at this point, I don't think it is working. Differences in learning styles are so important, and OP, there is nothing "wrong" with your daughter - most likely this is just the appropriate time line for her based on where she is on the right brain/left brain continuum. She may be dyslexic, but without more evidence of problems, I would just assume that she is right-brained. Is she creative, someone who likes to do her own thing, resistant to many of your more orderly teaching methods?