Full-body excema from airborn allergens?

[snanna]

Does anyone have experience with this?

I'm new to this forum-- I've just started trying to figure out my 2.5yo ds's excema. He's covered from head to foot, and it's so itchy he screams in his sleep and claws at himself all day. He looks terrible, with big circles under his eyes, and the awful red rash all over his little body. I'm hoping you guys can help me think this thing through.

We just got the results of an IgG test back, showing no "3s", no "2s" and only one "1", which was gluten. The naturopath said he was surprised by the results, as ds just looks so classically allergic, and that usually he doesn't recommend people cut out "1s", but in this case we should try it for a few weeks. I am nervous about trying it-- not sure I can actually get us gluten-free without contamination to the point where it would be conclusive.

I guess my question for you guys is this:

Given the lack of strong evidence he has a gluten sensitivity, and the fact that his excema is more-or-less seasonal (starting up in the spring since he was five months old, and fading in the fall, though never going completely away), is it possible that it isn't food related at all? We have cats, chickens, a dusty old house, wool and cotton mattresses, a ton of tree pollen, are outside much of the time, and maintain lax housekeeping standards (I don't vacuum, for instance, or change the sheets very often). There is a strong history of excema on both sides, and lots of respiratory allergies on my side.

Is excema really just sometimes a hereditary condition unresponsive to treatment of any kind? Even the naturopath told me this.

Of course, ds also had green poop for many months as as newborn (hindmilk/foremilk imbalance due to tandeming, I thought), and is occasionally but not seriously constipated. So there is that too.

I just have to address this. It is so bad, it's really impacting his quality of life. But I don't want to chase wild geese if it will delay finding the real answer.

Thank you so much, 'Health and Healing-- Allergies' mamas! I am so open to your knowledgeable suggestions for where to go next with this thing.

[joybird]

It is just so hard to know! I do think that even if he tested negative for allergens, I would concentrate on immune system healing, which is centered in the gut. So yeah, cutting out gluten (and dairy) would take some pressure off the gut and allow for healing there. I would also add in digestive enzymes and probiotic foods and/or supplements and omega fatty acids (fish oils). That in itself can go a long way.

I would also cut out sugar completely except for natural sugars such as fresh fruit. Just in case its a yeast/bacteria/dysbiosis thing. Which it could be but then again might not be. It can't hurt any though and is a very healthy way to eat.

It is tough, I know, but just concentrate on immune system healing and lowering stress as well!

[snanna]

Thank you for your thoughts, joybird! We are giving him probiotics and 3-6-9 fish oil-- he likes fish to eat as well. I wish I could get him to eat fermented foods, but he's not eating a very wide range of foods right now

He does eat very little sugar, though I put honey in his probiotic to make sure he finishes it....

So you think that even if a person doesn't have specific sensitivities to milk and gluten, they are innately stressful to the digestive tract and can inhibit healing?

Do you think it's possible that the excema is so much worse right now because we started the probiotics and fish oil a week ago and there's some kind of bounce-back effect?

I feel like I'm at the foot of a mountain of information, and not sure where to start my climb!

[franklin907]

Is excema really just sometimes a hereditary condition unresponsive to treatment of any kind? Even the naturopath told me this.

I would be utterly depressed if this was true; maybe it is, I really don't know, but I am convinced one of these days we will figure out our son's skin. He is 3 and has had severe eczema for the last couple years; it has been a battle that is completely exhausting at times. He does have a lot of allergens, though, and I think it's worth pulling dairy to see if it changes anything, that seems to be one of the top ones for eczema. For us, we had pulled dairy and eggs with no improvement, it wasn't until we pulled corn, wheat, oats, and potatoes. We've also been really focusing on gut healing, but we still have a long ways to go. Click here for our story. I decided to start this blog a couple months ago because I find it therapeutic to share all this information I've come across. I hope it helps someone else out, there's a lot of info out there that you won't get at the doctor's office. Also, the one thing that seems to hold true with eczema is that the same thing never works for everyone! Have you tried antihistamines? They don't really help us, but if it seems to be a seasonal thing for you, they may make a difference? I am sorry you're dealing with this, I know how mentally and physically exhausting it is!

[kjbrown92]

Have you done environmental allergy testing on him to see what he reacts to?

I would take gluten out for a month to see, given his history of constipation, etc. because if he is reacting to that, and getting it all the time, it's keeping his allergy "bucket" full. Gluten and dairy are inflammatory foods, and they do tax the immune system. Which IgG testing did you have done?

[snanna]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Which IgG testing did you have done?

I'm afraid I don't know-- it was just for food allergies. Are there others? The naturopath is mailing me the test results (have just had them over the phone so far) so I may know more then.

We have an appointment with an allergist in JULY to see about the environmental allergies. I suppose everyone is reacting to springtime, but it feels like a long time to wait.

I'm de-glutening the kitchen today-- we are a very bread-making and -eating family, so this is a big change. Will wait to remove dairy until that's settled. Not surprisingly, ds is a child who loves bread and cheese with a burning passion....

[snanna]

Originally Posted by franklin907

Click here for our story. I decided to start this blog a couple months ago because I find it therapeutic to share all this information I've come across. I hope it helps someone else out, there's a lot of info out there that you won't get at the doctor's office. Also, the one thing that seems to hold true with eczema is that the same thing never works for everyone! Have you tried antihistamines? They don't really help us, but if it seems to be a seasonal thing for you, they may make a difference? I am sorry you're dealing with this, I know how mentally and physically exhausting it is!

Thanks for the commiseration, and the link to your blog (it was missing an 'e' but I figured it out)! I can see it will be helpful!

I have not tried antihistamines. I thought it would be just a mask for the symptoms, but that doesn't sound so bad right about now... anyway, if it cleared the excema it would show that he was having an acute response to something in the environment, right?

Can I even get childrens' Benadryl at the store right now??

[BirthKathy]

Originally Posted by snanna

Does anyone have experience with this?

We just got the results of an IgG test back, showing no "3s", no "2s" and only one "1", which was gluten. The naturopath said he was surprised by the results, as ds just looks so classically allergic, and that usually he doesn't recommend people cut out "1s", but in this case we should try it for a few weeks. I am nervous about trying it-- not sure I can actually get us gluten-free without contamination to the point where it would be conclusive.

Of course, ds also had green poop for many months as as newborn (hindmilk/foremilk imbalance due to tandeming, I thought), and is occasionally but not seriously constipated. So there is that too.

My (now 1-yr) son has been dealing with eczema since he was about 4 mos. old. We had ALCat testing done first, and it showed no problems with any of the top 8 allergens. My doctor felt that with his symptoms we should further test for IGE. We did an IGE and an IGE/IGG combined test. He did turn up with a lot of IGG sensitivities, but also IGE allergies to dairy, soy, peanuts, nuts, wheat, corn, sesame and flax. Some of those showed up as IGG as well. Since your son had no IGG sensitivities, I'm sure he will not have a list like this, but maybe there is one IGE positive like milk or egg that's causing or exacerbating it.

We also had a lot of green poop for months which I thought was a foremilk thing from oversupply. It went away when I stopped eating dairy.

He's doing much better now, but we are noticing that he's worse when I hear friends complain about the pollen count. So environment is affecting him, too.

[gigismom]

i would second the recommendation to get IgE testing also if you have not yet. My ds eczema was primarily IgE related (soy, eggs, fish, corn) he also worsened to dairy though this came back negative on that test. You also mentioned, I think, that the eczema has gotten worse since starting the fish oil and probiotics. Probiotics will cause yeast die off in the gut which for my son (and me and my girls) results in worsening eczema, temporarily. This is a big clue as to what the real problem is (candida in the gut). However, it could also be something he is reacting to in the probiotics themselves or the fish oil. My ds reacts to vitamin e derived from soy in some fish oils and had a severe reaction (terrible eczema flair) to a probiotic that contained FOS. It really is such a guessing game. However, to give you some hope... my son is currently eczema free! He is 2.5y and has had eczema his whole life. My dd2 had eczema also her whole life (though not as severe as ds). The dermatologist said it could not be food related . The allergist said she wasn't allergic to anything . But when I cut out dairy and gluten for her and added in fish oil, probiotic and dramtically reduced grains and cut out all processed sugar she is also eczema free. We also take b vitamins, folinic acid and vitamin c and vitamin d3. She also has zero environmental allergies this year (me too). She and I used to sneeze and sneeze all the time. HTH.

[snanna]

Originally Posted by BirthKathy

We did an IGE and an IGE/IGG combined test. He did turn up with a lot of IGG sensitivities, but also IGE allergies to dairy, soy, peanuts, nuts, wheat, corn, sesame and flax. Some of those showed up as IGG as well. Since your son had no IGG sensitivities, I'm sure he will not have a list like this, but maybe there is one IGE positive like milk or egg that's causing or exacerbating it.

We also had a lot of green poop for months which I thought was a foremilk thing from oversupply. It went away when I stopped eating dairy.

He's doing much better now, but we are noticing that he's worse when I hear friends complain about the pollen count. So environment is affecting him, too.

It's good to hear that the IGE test was also helpful-- we're doing that in July (so long to wait!).

This thread is turning into my own personal road-map to the next steps to think about/take. I'm so grateful!

[snanna]

Originally Posted by gigismom

You also mentioned, I think, that the eczema has gotten worse since starting the fish oil and probiotics. Probiotics will cause yeast die off in the gut which for my son (and me and my girls) results in worsening eczema, temporarily. This is a big clue as to what the real problem is (candida in the gut). However, it could also be something he is reacting to in the probiotics themselves or the fish oil.

HTH.

Indeed it does help. And it IS such a guessing game. My husband said "gluten seems like such a stab in the dark!" and it really is. But we have to start somewhere. Ugh, if I have to question the very supplements that are supposed to be helping him!

[snanna]

Originally Posted by gigismom

He is 2.5y and has had eczema his whole life. My dd2 had eczema also her whole life (though not as severe as ds). The dermatologist said it could not be food related . The allergist said she wasn't allergic to anything . But when I cut out dairy and gluten for her and added in fish oil, probiotic and dramtically reduced grains and cut out all processed sugar she is also eczema free. We also take b vitamins, folinic acid and vitamin c and vitamin d3. She also has zero environmental allergies this year (me too). She and I used to sneeze and sneeze all the time. HTH.

The candida connection scares me but sounds plausible. I am nervous about cutting out too many foods groups (like grains) as we are primarily vegetarian, aside from the occasional fish at parties and barbecues (salmon is big here). I'm increasing that now, though. I just can't imagine how I will feed a child who needs to eat every two hours, and doesn't like vegetables, if I have to cut out dairy and a lot of grains.

Do you feed the whole family the limited diet? Ds would not tolerate anyone eating foods in front of him that he couldn't have, and he's so young (and not super verbal) that explaining it is going to go nowhere. Sigh.

[gigismom]

we do feed the whole family dairy, gluten, egg, soy, corn, nut, fish (except for fish oil) free and low grain. ds also has to eat whatever he sees other people eating so it is just easier this way. except dd1 can have some dairy and does sometimes without ds realizing it and dd2 can have some gluten and also does sometimes without ds realizing it. we all have some issues with candida and eating this way has really made us all healthier even if some of us are not necessarily sensitive to certain foods. it is just easier to cook for everyone if we all cut everything. we are not a huge bread family. dh owns a pizzeria and that has been tough, though. we just can not go there anymore . this makes us all sad but i am hopeful that if we stick with it we will eventually be able to tolerate dairy and gluten again. my kids eat amazing things and love them and don't ask anymore for the "junk" food. Dd1 refuses to eat at school anymore because the foods are so horrible.

jen

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by snanna

I have not tried antihistamines. I thought it would be just a mask for the symptoms, but that doesn't sound so bad right about now... anyway, if it cleared the excema it would show that he was having an acute response to something in the environment, right?

Can I even get childrens' Benadryl at the store right now??

You may feel like you're "masking" things, but it will allow you to more clearly see a reaction if your son's skin is (somewhat) clear. We do (generic) benedryl at night if DS has been awake scratching for more than an hour.

CVS has their brand of dye-free liquid benedryl. Kroger also has a store brand, but it is not dye-free. (Of course, that's the one DS got ahold of and dumped on the bedroom carpet!)

Originally Posted by gigismom

i would second the recommendation to get IgE testing also if you have not yet. .

I would hazard to guess that ALL of DS's eczema is IgE. Egg, wheat, peanut...and also tested positive for mold, oak trees, and cat. When I removed those things from our diet (DS and me, too, because he was breastfeeding), his weepy, crusty eczema went down CONSIDERABLY. He and I were already dairy-free. When I see pics of him before --- his cheeks were so red. And it had killed the melanin or something, as they were white-white (DS is half black) for weeks (months?) after the eczema itself cleared up.

You can ask your ped or fam doc to do a blood draw and RAST test now, before you go to the allergist. Like a previous poster, our long-awaited trips to the dermatologist and allergist were worthless.

[snanna]

Originally Posted by gigismom

dh owns a pizzeria and that has been tough, though. we just can not go there anymore . this makes us all sad but i am hopeful that if we stick with it we will eventually be able to tolerate dairy and gluten again. my kids eat amazing things and love them and don't ask anymore for the "junk" food. Dd1 refuses to eat at school anymore because the foods are so horrible.

jen

That's great that your kids eat so well! Gives me hope....

But wow, a family-owned pizza restaurant owned by a dairy/gluten-free family. Ouch, how painfully ironic!

[snanna]

Originally Posted by ASusan

You may feel like you're "masking" things, but it will allow you to more clearly see a reaction if your son's skin is (somewhat) clear. We do (generic) benedryl at night if DS has been awake scratching for more than an hour.


I would hazard to guess that ALL of DS's eczema is IgE. Egg, wheat, peanut...and also tested positive for mold, oak trees, and cat. When I removed those things from our diet (DS and me, too, because he was breastfeeding), his weepy, crusty eczema went down CONSIDERABLY. He and I were already dairy-free. When I see pics of him before --- his cheeks were so red. And it had killed the melanin or something, as they were white-white (DS is half black) for weeks (months?) after the eczema itself cleared up.

You can ask your ped or fam doc to do a blood draw and RAST test now, before you go to the allergist. Like a previous poster, our long-awaited trips to the dermatologist and allergist were worthless.

With the antihistamine, do you mean it's easier to see a food/environmental allergy reaction if his skin is clearer? Like if we had eliminated a food and then were challenging it? I feel a little confused about what order to do things in at this point. I'm kind of throwing the whole eczema kit at the little guy at the moment, hoping something takes.

As to the family doc doing a blood draw and RAST test-- I'll check and see! If they can do it, why send me to an allergist? What do they offer that's above and beyond?

[capsgirl08]

DS was like that from 3months to 11months until I finally pulled gluten. He is doing much better now, although he still has issues with his gut.

This is going to seem out of the blue, but do you vax at all? We did at first, and it wasn't until the 3rd set of DTaP, Hib, Polio that I realized DS became so much worse after each vax. The pedi blew off my concern as coincidence. I felt guilty enough for not looking into it more before, but despite the pedi, we have stopped all vaxes completely.

I am so sorry you're going through this. Flax oil rubbed on my DS's skin helped a bit. Some say witch hazel helps with the itching. My dad is allergic to witch hazel, though, and I don't know what the age recommendatino for that is.

Hugs. Hope your boy gets well soon.

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by snanna

With the antihistamine, do you mean it's easier to see a food/environmental allergy reaction if his skin is clearer? Like if we had eliminated a food and then were challenging it? I feel a little confused about what order to do things in at this point. I'm kind of throwing the whole eczema kit at the little guy at the moment, hoping something takes.

Well, here's our experience - DS sometimes has wheezing that we cannot control with the nebulizer, so he has received a short (3-5 day) course of oral steroids. These steroids dampen his immune system and inflammation so that there is the side effect of clearing up his eczema. While is skin is clearer, we can more clearly see the links between eating XX and breaking out in itchy eczema. The steroid is not in his system long enough to stop or hide the reactions he ultimately has to the food.

The same thing - on a lesser level - happens with the antihistamine. After he's had a few doses of Benedryl, his hand start to clear and he stops itching for a day or so, so that I feel more confident saying "ah ha! - the increase in itching tonight (it's always the middle of the night) is because he had that little bit of cheese on his pasta tonight."

Does that make sense?

As to the family doc doing a blood draw and RAST test-- I'll check and see! If they can do it, why send me to an allergist? What do they offer that's above and beyond?

[/QUOTE]
In our case, not much. But the allergist did the skin prick testing (SPT). The RAST is nice because it will give you a quantitative measure of response and you can then track that over time (giving a yearly RAST, for example) to see if his IgE reaction is falling over time. In our case, his reaction to wheat is a lot less at 2 yrs than it was at 10 mos, so that we'll trial it this summer. (as soon as he no longer is having seasonal reactions, so we can more clearly see whether any reaction to wheat is truly a wheat reaction and not a tree pollen rxn.) The SPT can give a quantitative measure, if they measure the wheals. They can then repeat the SPT in the future to see whether the size of the wheals changes.


And, to the PP who stopped vaxing, I think that's good advice. We've never vaxed, BUT, I highly suspect mercury/metals because DS's eczema started after I had 5(!) fillings removed and replaced when he was a 5-mo-old nursling. He already had issues with his skin (tinea versacolor, infant acne, reacted to dairy in my diet), so we knew his system was "on alert", but I think the filling replacement and eczema were quite connected.

[BirthKathy]

OP, I forgot to ask on what areas of skin your ds's eczema is worst? You say head to toe - is it on the fronts of the limbs, or the creases? My son's is focused mostly on the face, around the mouth and cheeks. When it was at its worst, it travelled up his face and covered his face and scalp and also got bad in the creases of his knees and elbows.

He has had full body reactions a couple of times, but they cleared up within a week or so each time.

The reason that I ask is that my doctor said that this is a classic "food allergy atopic dermatitis pattern." Just thought I'd throw out that extra bit of info -

[snanna]

Okay, you can tell me if this is crazy, but two days into the no-gluten experiment, ds's whole skin seems a little less inflamed. He's been in an unusually good mood. He's eaten less than usual, which might be because of the new foods, but I'm wondering if his usually big appetite has to do with malabsorption (totally making that up) due to, um, let's call it gluten poisoning. I am really grasping at straws here, huh? But he's so much less RED....

ASusan, thank you for the explanation about antihistamines-- I'm keeping it in mind, but not throwing it into the mix yet. I feel for you mamas dealing with asthma and serious respiratory stuff, and am grateful that for us it's just skin.

As to the vaxing, we do selectively vax, but his first outbreak was well before his first shots, and I haven't seen any pattern since (it's nice to have online access to our medical records! I even checked when I had a shot, and when we took him in various times). I do have mercury fillings, but they have remained where they are all his life. Hmmmm.

BirthKathy, right now his rash is worst on the backs of his thighs and on his lower arms/wrists, becoming milder on his neck, face, arms, hips, and belly. None on his back. It does move around, though. When he was a baby it was all cheeks and diaper area (despite being EC'd and never in wet diapers, let alone poop). Interesting that it has patterns related to food allergies!