I am still freaking out about Tetanus

[TonyaW]

I have posted about this probably 3 times this week. I just dug 3 more splinters out of my sons hand and have dug out a total of about 5 this week. I am so torn and seriously considering getting him the DT vaccine. He is completely unvaccinated at this point. I don't think I could live with myself if my son contracted Tetanus. I am really not worried about any other so called "vaccine preventable disease" other than tetanus. I am not even worried about the D of the DT. I would just get T if I could.

I was reading several of my vaccine books again last night. All of them seem to imply that getting a tetanus vaccine is a good idea. I was reading Dr Mendolson's book. He does not endorse the booster but never says to not vaccinate for tetanus. I read Aviva Jill Romm's book and there is even a quote about drawing the line of radicalism against vaccination and getting the tetanus vaccine. Finally the Dr Sears book which is completely pro vaccine recommends it. However there are contradicting statements in the book. He mentions newborns getting tetanus and then goes on to say that tetanus is virtually unseen under the age of five.

I know the statistics and I know proper wound care. Even Romm says you can get tetanus from a splinter.

[ammiga]

All of the sources you quote are people who are in favor of vaccinating. Have you looked at what doctors who are against vaccination say about tetanus and the vaccine? Or how the average person handles tetanus? How many cases of tetanus have you found per year, what were the causes, how were those wounds treated, and what was the medical health of the people involved? How do those numbers compare with other "random" deaths, like being struck by lightening? I'm not being sarcastic when I say that, sometimes comparing numbers like that can help to put the numbers into perspective for me.

I think what Dr. Sears is referring to is the practice of packing newborns cord stumps with cow dung and dirt in some third world countries. That is how those babies are contracting tetanus, not from splinters or anything like that.

[TonyaW]

The only source I quoted in favor for vaccination was Dr Sears. Dr Mendolsohn is clearly against vaccination, but the only one that he didn't seem to recommend against was tetanus except the booster. Romm seems to be neither here nor there except for tetanus which she seemed to clearly promote. She gives lots of info about the diseases, treatments and vaccines and never clearly makes an opinion except about tetanus.

I do have other very anti vaccine books but all seem to lean towards vaccination for tetanus or simply give info about the disease without direct opinions.

Do you have a good book recommendation regarding the issues you mentioned? I am planning on getting Tennpenny's book, but I am not sure how much info she has on tetanus.

[happyblessedmama]

Hi Tonya,

Have you looked into treatment options for possible tetanus exposure on unimmunized individuals? The "booster shot" commonly offered will not confer immunity in time to protect from that particular incident. If one is genuinely concerned about exposure they need to receive treatment with tetanus immune globulin (TIG/THIG.) From this website, indications for TIG administration:

Indications and Usage

Passive, transient protection against tetanus in any person that may be contaminated with tetanus spores when: (1) patient's personal history of immunization with tetanus toxoid is unknown or uncertain, (2) person received less than 2 prior doses of tetanus toxoid, or (3) person received 2 prior doses of tetanus toxoid, but delay of more than 24 h occurred between time of injury and initiation of tetanus prophylaxis.

If you opt not to vaccinate, you may wish to find out if your local hospitals stock TIG for situations such as this.

We eventually did opt to vaccinate (selectively) for tetanus, among other things, as we live in a very remote environment and do a lot of outdoor activity in mud/dirt/etc. (playing with kids, riverbanks, etc.) with potential for injury. I wouldn't want to go through it. There are a FEW cases in the US every year, generally among unvaccinated individuals, contracted through something as simple as digging in dirt for gardening and the like.

We felt more comfortable with our lifestyle/choices having had our children get that particular vaccination. Good luck with your choice.

Editing to add - I'm not suggesting you should or need to seek out TIG for something like a splinter. Wounds that do not bleed freely, or that heal over and create an anaerobic environment, are much more conducive to tetanus infections than something properly addressed and cleaned. I was just offering more general information.

[TonyaW]

Thanks for the info. I am aware of the treatment options but never have checked to see if the hospitals around here carry them. I just assumed they do. I live in a the suburbs but also close to rural areas.

At what age did you decide to do the vaccination? Did you do DT? Did you do anything special to help the children deal with receiving this vaccine? I did read in one of my anti vaccine books last night about administering vitamin C before and after a vaccine and Tylenol. However, I thought I read recently that tylenol may not be such a good thing.

I am so torn. I hate vaccinating and I hate leaving my son unprotected from tetanus. My son is outside all the time and we visit a farm frequently. I just know I will be worried about this all the time.

[happyblessedmama]

I would check, because not all hospitals stock TIG. A lot of my non-vaxing friends (IRL, not at MDC) were unaware that they couldn't "just get a shot" post exposure if they were concerned about it, so I thought i'd mention that.

We opted to vaccinate when we moved out to where we currently live, which is a very remote area with a lot of strange things going on... for instance, we have one of the highest rates of invasive pneumococcal disease in the US. *WE* still opt not to get Prevnar, but felt differently because our lifestyle includes a lot of very backcountry high-activity/potential for injury activities. My children were 3 and 1 at the time. The children I've had since then I started vaxing around age 1.

Like you, I worried about splinters, especially if I couldn't get them out and all that. I did not do anything special, and no, we did opt for the DTaP as there was an active outbreak of pertussis in our area. We had/have had no complications from it in any of our children, who are all (years post-vaccination) very, very healthy.

editing to add: we did end up needing one dose less than the standard schedule because we started the vaccines "late". We tend to do that, anyway, with the ones we get to minimize the number of times injection is required. We did not get any of the hepB/polio/DtaP vaccine combos - this was a simple DTaP shot with nothing else.

[kavamamakava]

It has to be a mighty big splinter to carry any risk of tetanus. I think you want to get the tetanus shot so do what you think you should do.
Personally, I wouldn't get a tetanus vaccination for splinters. At this point it wouldn't do anything anyway and if the splinters were not deep enough to cause bleeding then there is no concern at all. But you said you would be constantly worried anyway. So do what you need to do.

[bri276]

If you are more worried about the disease than the vaccine after doing comprehensive research, then go ahead and vaccinate. You don't need permission from anyone! It's your child and you are the one responsible. That's what it's all about.

[MujerMamaMismo]

My DS is currently completely unvax'ed but tetanus is the one vax that I spend a lot of time worrying about so I understand your concern. My kid is adventure baby and is always hurting himself in the garden.

Have you considered vax'ing him against tetanus homeopathically? That's what I have recently decided to do and I feel really good about the decision.

[BarnMomma]

Our DS is unvaxed and spends his life at our horse barn- running jumping climbing- falling down, getting hurt and lots of time in the garden. NOt a day passes without a bump, bruise, or skinned knee. I stopped freaking out about tetanus but I do treat every cut or scrape wtih hydrogen peroxide and tea tree oil.

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by bri276

If you are more worried about the disease than the vaccine after doing comprehensive research, then go ahead and vaccinate. You don't need permission from anyone! It's your child and you are the one responsible. That's what it's all about.

Yep! You have done your research, you know the risks/benefits on both sides of the equation. You are still highly concerned about the disease, so get him vaccinated.

This forum isn't anti-vaccine! It's pro-choice, pro-information...that's different than anti-vaccine. Many people on here choose not to vaccinate for tetanus, but some do, because they also made a risk/benefit analysis for their child and the conclusion was to vaccinate. That is just as good a decision as the people who made the same analysis and concluded to not vaccinate. Your decision is valid because it's educated, informed, and deliberate.

If I may, it sounds like you *think* like you shouldn't vaccinate, yet your gut is warning you about this one disease, and your research isn't allaying those fears. In my mind, that's a good reason to vaccinate.

[Emmeline II]

I guess you haven't read Dr. Mendolshon's book where he says that Tetanus is the last vaccine to be given up . The few Tetanus cases I have read have been in middle-aged to seniors with untreated wounds and out of date vaccinations. Even with all the unvaxed children in the US, only 0-2 per year contract Tetanus.

I think Dr. Sears has prevaccine protocols in his book (vitamins, etc.) and it has been in the media that Tylonel has been found to interfere in the effectiveness of vaccines.

It is always a risk benefit senario and if you feel the benefit of vaccinating outweighs the risk not vaccinating, then vaccinate.

[kittywitty]

I agree with Emmeline. Tetanus is honestly one thing I'm not worried about. My kids get splinters almost every day from running around barefoot. I had a friend in high school who got tetanus and was fully vaxed. I know for a fact b/c her mom was a teacher at our school and VERY pro-vax. She was fine and is now in Chiro school.

I honestly would not worry about splinters and tetanus. Maybe metal splinters from running around on dirty rusty nails? I can't imagine a kid doing that, though. But if you feel the risks of the splinters outweigh the vax, good luck!

[alegna]

I'll toss in my thinking on tetanus.

Tetanus was the first vaccine I had to get comfortable with NOT giving. I am allergic/reactive to it, as was my grandmother. I had increasing reactions to decreasing doses until I was 9 and they finally declared me allergic to it, told me to NEVER get any vax containing it again and if I insisted, to do so in an ER equipped with a crash cart. Heh. For the same reactions I had, peds. are now telling moms to keep vaxing.

That said, what I found on tetanus is that it is SO rare, not a lot is known. In no particular order:

your child is more likely to get struck by lightening than contract tetanus

they don't know if the tetanus vaccine works- they "assume" it does

tetanus shows up more in people with poor circulation (not children)

tetanus was ALWAYS incredibly rare- including what would be prime situations to contract it- civil war, pioneer settings etc

when tetanus shows up in babies- it's newborns- usually who have had mud rubbed on their open umbilical cord

there are some studies showing increased susceptiblity to tetanus in people who are "over" vaccinated (not always over recommendations, just more than average) people

are you up to date on your tetanus vax? (every 10 yrs) I haven't had any in 25 years- have had plenty of splinters, skinned knees, scratches, etc. No tetanus.

Think back to how life was in pioneer america. Think about what kids did. They were around animals, on farms ALL the time. Cleanliness was not anywhere near what we expect today. They got hurt (major and minor) with quite a bit of regularity- definitely the likes of splinters all the time. Wound care was NIL. It might get washed off... might. The water might be dirty too. Still, tetanus was INCREDIBLY rare.

I ended up deciding it was not worth a second thought.

I agree that if you feel this fearful of it, you should go ahead and vax.

-Angela

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

I guess you haven't read Dr. Mendolshon's book where he says that Tetanus is the last vaccine to be given up . The few Tetanus cases I have read have been in middle-aged to seniors with untreated wounds and out of date vaccinations. Even with all the unvaxed children in the US, only 0-2 per year contract Tetanus.

I think Dr. Sears has prevaccine protocols in his book (vitamins, etc.) and it has been in the media that Tylonel has been found to interfere in the effectiveness of vaccines.

It is always a risk benefit senario and if you feel the benefit of vaccinating outweighs the risk not vaccinating, then vaccinate.

Which book is that...maybe there is one I don't know about and haven't read? I quoted his book where he said he gave up on tetanus boosters. He didn't say anything about giving up the vaccine totally. Which is one of the contributing factors to consider the vaccine. I am still really torn, which is why I keeping posting about this.

I am hoping that I will come across something that will complete allay my fears either way.

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by kavamamakava

It has to be a mighty big splinter to carry any risk of tetanus. I think you want to get the tetanus shot so do what you think you should do.
Personally, I wouldn't get a tetanus vaccination for splinters. At this point it wouldn't do anything anyway and if the splinters were not deep enough to cause bleeding then there is no concern at all. But you said you would be constantly worried anyway. So do what you need to do.

I would be interested in hearing why splinters are not a concern. I would feel better knowing my son could be treated for an obvious injury. Why aren't splinters a concern when I keep reading they are?

[TonyaW]

One of my other concerns is that if my son isn't vaxed for tetanus and for some reason he ends up contracting it (which is scary enough) but what if the ER docs contact CPS because I was "negligent" for not vaxing. I am always worried about that ER trip that one day I am sure I will need to make with my son for an injury and then having to disclose his vaccination status, which I possibly would disclose if I felt it would help his treatment. I might say he isn't up to date, but I wouldn't necessarily say he is unvaccnated if there was no reason to.

[caned & able]

Tetanus is the last vaccine most anti-vaxers give up on.

Dr. Mendelsohn said this in many of his lectures. I have the tapes.

Use hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, or your own blood to prevent tetanus. Tetanus germs die with oxygen.

As for the ER trip, unless the condition you are in there for is related to vaccines, I always have said that my child is up-to-date, and move on. It has worked so far.

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by caned & able

Tetanus is the last vaccine most anti-vaxers give up on.

Dr. Mendelsohn said this in many of his lectures. I have the tapes.

Use hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, or your own blood to prevent tetanus. Tetanus germs die with oxygen.

As for the ER trip, unless the condition you are in there for is related to vaccines, I always have said that my child is up-to-date, and move on. It has worked so far.

How do you get the lectures?

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by TonyaW

One of my other concerns is that if my son isn't vaxed for tetanus and for some reason he ends up contracting it (which is scary enough) but what if the ER docs contact CPS because I was "negligent" for not vaxing. I am always worried about that ER trip that one day I am sure I will need to make with my son for an injury and then having to disclose his vaccination status, which I possibly would disclose if I felt it would help his treatment. I might say he isn't up to date, but I wouldn't necessarily say he is unvaccnated if there was no reason to.

What about all those vaxed kids who get tetanus? They don't call CPS on those parents. WHen my kids had whopping cough (my two vaxed kids) I told them I didn't vax since we stopped a year before and they didn't report me. Be honest and remember not vaccinating is NOT illegal.

As for why splinters aren't a concern-I've had thousands in my life, as have my kids probably. No tetanus. Don't know anyone who ever has from a splinter, but then again I only know 1 person ever who had it and it wasn't splinter related, lol. I always remove splinters and somehow have to pull open the skin ending in a little blood. Since tetanus is anaerobic, that would kill it at the very least.

Dr. Mendelsohn:

"You have every right to closely question me on the tetanus vaccine, since that was the last vaccine I abandoned. It wasn't hard for me to give up vaccines for whooping cough, measles, and rubella because of their disabling and sometimes deadly side effects. The mumps vaccine, a high-risk, low-benefit product, struck me and plenty of other doctors as silly from the moment it was introduced. Arguments for the diphtheria vaccine were vitiated by epidemics during the past 15 years which showed the same death rate and the same severity of illness in those who were vaccinated vs. those who were not vaccinated. As for smallpox, even the government finally gave up that vaccine in 1970, and I gave up on the polio vaccine when Jonas Salk showed that the best way to catch polio in the United States was to be near a child who recently had taken the Sabin vaccine. But the tetanus vaccine exercised a hold on me for a much longer time. As you point out, I gave up belief in this vaccine in stages. For a while, I still held onto the notion that farm families and people who work around stables should continue to take tetanus shots. But in spite of my early indoctrination with fear of "rusty nails," in recent years, I have developed a greater fear of the hypodermic needle. My reasons are:..."
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/page_8.htm

124 cases in 3 years. Only 3 were unvaccinated. 11% fatality rate and "All tetanus-related deaths occurred among patients aged greater than or equal to 25 years." TT was given to 14 patients. Most cases seemed to be post-surgical, dog bites, abrasions, punctures, and IV drug users, etc. Splinter could be one of these, but I doubt your average splinter is. "Tetanus is preventable through both routine vaccination and appropriate wound management. "

"Tetanus remains a clinical diagnosis because confirmatory laboratory tests are not available for routine use. Isolation of the organism from wounds is neither sensitive nor specific: anaerobic cultures of tissues or aspirates usually are not positive, and the organism might be grown from wounds in the absence of clinical signs and symptoms of disease (37-39)." So how do we know these were all actual tetanus cases? Especially the insect sting one?
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00053713.htm


http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0615/p2557.html

During all of WWII, 12 cases of tetanus were reported by US forces. 33% were vaccinated.
-Edward Mortimer, "Immunization Against Infectious Diseases," Science, Volume 200, (May 26, 1978), p.905

"You are 44 times more likely to die from lightning than from tetanus."
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/tetanus.htm