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how many times before you'd call the police? little league - Page 8

post #141 of 163
I think this conversation veered off course slightly, since the question wasn't really about whether an 8 year old could be dropped off at his games or practices. I am of the opinion that as long as everyone is agreeable (both coach and parents) it's not a big deal.

The big deal is that this family probably signed something when they registered Jr. for Little League (we did with DS1). And depending on what they signed, the LL may be assuming responsibility for the child while the child is on LL property or under the supervision of LL personnel. Allowing Jr. to remain behind after all coaches leave creates a legal grey area if god forbid something were to happen before dad came to pick up. I think it's great that the coach is contacting higher-ups at the LL to ascertain exactly what his responsibility is, and how to execute it.

And if it's determined that a note from the parents is all that's needed to absolve the LL of responsibility, then they can go ahead and get that on file. I hate to think of it in these terms, but I've been in these shoes myself as a librarian. Many parents would use the library as a safe space for after school, whatever, but there'd be kids stranded there at closing (5PM) and I knew they lived across town (unwalkable). My coworkers and I all had times when we'd stay with the child, only once did we ever call the police (a whole family of kids, most of whom were actually too young to be in the library per our 'unattended child' policy).

FWIW my son is only 6 and this is his first team sport, etc. so I do go to every game/practice. He's also my oldest and the only one with activities like this, so I can manage that. But I don't watch every second of it (I can't, anyway, with a 2-year-old) and honestly I think he does better if he thinks we're not paying attention. I certainly stay way back to let the coaches handle any behavior issues or anything (they're still at the age where they lay down in the outfield and stuff!).
post #142 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionaryMom View Post
My high school was this way if your parents were picking you up from a school event. It had to be your parents, and they had to get you. Students who walked were a different story, but...in my children's soon-to-be school district, you are not allowed to walk and/or allow your child to walk to school. We live 200 yards away, and we're walking next year. We'll deal with the consequences however they come down, but I'm not going to drive the 200 yards. It blows me away that people aren't permitted to walk!
It blows me away even further that they make the assumption that every parent has a car and can drive.
post #143 of 163
and really, this is such a first world/middle class problem

Seriously I am flabbergasted by the people whos e kids go to a school that requires a parent drive to pick them up, and the people here who believe parents need to watch their child play in every game. What a luxury!
post #144 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
and really, this is such a first world/middle class problem

Seriously I am flabbergasted by the people whos e kids go to a school that requires a parent drive to pick them up, and the people here who believe parents need to watch their child play in every game. What a luxury!
...could be wrong, but likely the majority of people posting on this site belong to this segment of society...not all, of course. Jeeze, even having internet and free time to post responses to issues like this can be seen as a luxury.
post #145 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cascadian View Post
...could be wrong, but likely the majority of people posting on this site belong to this segment of society...not all, of course. Jeeze, even having internet and free time to post responses to issues like this can be seen as a luxury.

I agree. But there are posters saying if a parent doesn't attend every single game and practice, then said parent isn't actually parenting that child. Seems way over the top to me, and a huge symptom of middle class entitlement.
post #146 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cascadian View Post
...could be wrong, but likely the majority of people posting on this site belong to this segment of society...not all, of course. Jeeze, even having internet and free time to post responses to issues like this can be seen as a luxury.
The difference is, is that I'm not saying people who don't use the internet are negligent parents or something.
post #147 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post
It blows me away even further that they make the assumption that every parent has a car and can drive.
No kidding! I didn't drive until just before my son staretd high school. My sister still doesn't drive, couldn't afford a car even if she did, and her oldest is finishing 9th grade (2nd year of high school in our system) next month. What an insane requirement.
post #148 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cascadian View Post
...could be wrong, but likely the majority of people posting on this site belong to this segment of society...not all, of course. Jeeze, even having internet and free time to post responses to issues like this can be seen as a luxury.
Check out the Frugality and Finances forum. While I have money enough now, when I joined MDC, I was 17, nursing my toddler in front of the computer at the library on break from my $6 an hour job.
post #149 of 163
I can't find the post again to quote it but I have to say a huge Oh MY are you SERIOUS?!

In this day and age and all this talk about childhood obesity and how fat *everyone* in our nation is becoming....there are actually schools that ban ANYONE walking to the school? Even a parent walking WITH the child?! That has got to be the CRAZIEST thing I have EVER heard!

Now DS's future school is a magnet. It has a parental-involvement requirement. They also do not bus, in part because it is so small and kids are enrolled from all areas. This is something that is made clear along with the "commitment" to time in your child's classroom. If you can't arrange transportation--and there are carpools, it's not required that it be a PARENT, etc. you can't go. (so someone could conceivably have a sitter and get enough time off to do the half-day requirement, maybe they work where they can work at another time to make it up or whatever, or like my friend's job, they give her hours off for school activities, whatever the case may be. If you can arrange to meet the requirements, you can attend, provided you get to the top of the waiting list.)
post #150 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by peaceful_mama View Post
I can't find the post again to quote it but I have to say a huge Oh MY are you SERIOUS?!

In this day and age and all this talk about childhood obesity and how fat *everyone* in our nation is becoming....there are actually schools that ban ANYONE walking to the school? Even a parent walking WITH the child?! That has got to be the CRAZIEST thing I have EVER heard!
I know. I'm still a bit shocked, and I've known about the policy for a while. To make things worse, we live in one of the *most* obese states in the country. I'm on the board of a pedestrian/bicycling advocacy group, and this is one of the areas we're targeting. We have a Safe Routes to School grant which will allow us to begin constructing paved trails to the schools, but the school administrators are "uneasy" about the idea of children walking to school. We're constructing a whole PR campaign to convince people it's safe.
post #151 of 163
OMG these people would've had a complete FIT with what we did as kids...me, my best friend, many other kids in our school, walked probably 5-6 blocks to our homes. Across one "busy street" for our town. Across the driveways exiting the high school, which got out when we were walking. Across another street.

WE LIVED TO TELL THE TALE! AND we were WITHOUT ADULTS. AND we were maybe *almost 7* or 7 when we started this!

my kids' school and most of the schools in the district have selected 4th and 5th graders as crossing guards at the streets nearest the schools.

back to the topic of this thread at 8 I was riding my bike all over the neighborhood and going to a nearby park without adults...
post #152 of 163
The specific problem may be first world/ middle class, but there certainly are people all over the world and of all economic classes who are only too happy to tell mothers that they're doing everything wrong. That's a universal practice.
post #153 of 163
I usually vote with other lower income parents, but on this one , im with the 'self entitled middle classes'. I think its negligent for a father to turn up late to pick up his son, and inconsiderate at best, to leave another man (the volunteer) legally responsible for his son without asking his permission, or so much as a thankyou, or an apology.

There is clearly a miscommunication here ( again at best), and something needs to be sorted out as far as when this child is picked up. If he can walk home, then thats another subject (so why is dad picking him up at all?)

Where my son does gymnastics, parents are not required to stay ( i would love to if the younger ds werent so disruptive). But it is certainly expected that we pick them up on time.
post #154 of 163
I don't get how this has turned into the evil oppressive little league coach vs. the parent who just doesn't want his kid to be fat. :P

Look, I don't care if parents stay or not. I wouldn't stay at a practice unless it was so far away it wasn't worth going home or doing errands. If I lived close by, I might consider asking the league/coach if I could give them a notarized statement if necessary to allow my kid to walk home.

But being rich, poor, carless, carred, whatever does NOT give ANYONE a pass to take advantage of a volunteer parent. Period. If you can't deal with the league requirement that you actually pick up your child on time, then for pete's sake, don't put them in there if you will not make other arrangements (which are *YOUR* responsibility to make, BTW).

Carpool. Take a bus. Call the coach/league and figure out what you need to do to make their insurance/liability concerns go away. Bother to factor in travelling time for your errands. Or if you truly can't do it, then withdraw your child.

Seems simple to me. To be honest, if this happened on a regular basis, I would want that kid off my team, or myself out of a coaching position the next year. If someone gave me permission to drop the kid off at his house myself, no problem. But to constantly take advantage of someone like that and not seem to bother finding a solution?

Jerky is jerky, regardless of social class or excuse. IMO. Though to be honest, I think the league that has no apparent protection or policy for their volunteers is being stupid. I know I would not volunteer again unless I knew there was that policy in place.

And it's a little scary that kids are allowed to participate without contact numbers and emergency contacts.
post #155 of 163
I agree this has nothing to do with making it hard for parents with more than one kid or being ridiculous about how old a kid should be allowed to walk a certain distance unsupervised.
My DH is a Little League coach. He is legally required to stay there until all the kids are picked up. He has given rides to so many kids over the years and has no problem with it but needs permission to do it.
They should have all contact info in the registration form and he should get in touch with the parents even if he needs to mail them a letter if he can't talk in person or by phone to them.
It is absolutely unfair to take advantage of a volunteer coach. They put in a lot of hours and take a lot of crap from parents in order to teach kids and pass on their love of the game.
post #156 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I don't get how this has turned into the evil oppressive little league coach vs. the parent who just doesn't want his kid to be fat. :P

Look, I don't care if parents stay or not. I wouldn't stay at a practice unless it was so far away it wasn't worth going home or doing errands. If I lived close by, I might consider asking the league/coach if I could give them a notarized statement if necessary to allow my kid to walk home.

But being rich, poor, carless, carred, whatever does NOT give ANYONE a pass to take advantage of a volunteer parent. Period. If you can't deal with the league requirement that you actually pick up your child on time, then for pete's sake, don't put them in there if you will not make other arrangements (which are *YOUR* responsibility to make, BTW).

Carpool. Take a bus. Call the coach/league and figure out what you need to do to make their insurance/liability concerns go away. Bother to factor in travelling time for your errands. Or if you truly can't do it, then withdraw your child.

Seems simple to me. To be honest, if this happened on a regular basis, I would want that kid off my team, or myself out of a coaching position the next year. If someone gave me permission to drop the kid off at his house myself, no problem. But to constantly take advantage of someone like that and not seem to bother finding a solution?

Jerky is jerky, regardless of social class or excuse. IMO. Though to be honest, I think the league that has no apparent protection or policy for their volunteers is being stupid. I know I would not volunteer again unless I knew there was that policy in place.

And it's a little scary that kids are allowed to participate without contact numbers and emergency contacts.
Great post. You are so right.
post #157 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine233 View Post
My point is, you can coordinate sports with multiple kids. Sometimes not everyone gets their first choice of sports that season but we accommodate as much as we can. I will not allow my kids to participate in something that I know we can't be there for the events/games. This is a huge part of parenting. Or we call in grandparent backup if possible. I didn't have kids to miss out on these events. I had children so I could PARENT them.
Another "huge part of parenting," IMO, is allowing your children some independence and teaching them that the world does not always revolve around them. Sometimes parents have other commitments--work, other children, etc.--and I think you (the general you, not you personally) do your kids a disservice when you teach them that every other important thing in the world can be dropped for them ALL the time.

I teach college students, and I am SHOCKED by how many of them can't even write a paper without calling mommy and asking for her opinion. Students--ADULT students--no longer come by themselves to admitted students day, no longer choose their own course schedules without parental input, and have their parents phone professors to dispute grades. What's going to happen when these students, these adults, get jobs? How are they ever going to learn to be responsible for their own lives, schedules, and choices? I'm all for being an involved and active parent, but I think too many people are over-coddling their kids. When I was in college, choosing and managing my own courses, my job, and my relationships with professors prepared me for the "real world" far more than the actual content of the classes.

Finally, I was involved in many activities as a child and have many siblings. At least one of my parents (both of whom worked) always made it to "major" events (a play or concert, for example), but they were not able to attend every single game, practice, rehearsal, class, etc. Not only did their absence not bother me, but I found it actively nice, sometimes, to be on my own--to feel independent, to develop my sense of self without always having someone watching over me.
post #158 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCVeg View Post
Another "huge part of parenting," IMO, is allowing your children some independence and teaching them that the world does not always revolve around them. Sometimes parents have other commitments--work, other children, etc.--and I think you (the general you, not you personally) do your kids a disservice when you teach them that every other important thing in the world can be dropped for them ALL the time.
Exactly. I have seen lots of people who think that the should "actively parent" their children during games and practices, and most of the time--it ain't pretty.

Part of parenting *is* letting go a bit, and at least faking confidence (assuming that they are worthy of confidence) in your child's ability to participate in other safe activities without your constant presence/feedback. IMO. Does this need to happen at 4 years old? No. But by the time the child is naturally wanting to have some of that, in late childhood/approaching adolescence I would hope that the parent is able to give that to their kid.

If the child understands that you won't be there all the time because of various other committments, and still wants to participate...I think it shows more love and respect to the child to work out carpool or other arrangements for their participation *despite* your high need to be there at all times. That's a parental sacrifice as well. It allows the child to see that you support them enough to make it happen even if it doesn't in your ideal way. Of course, you also have to uphold your end of the bargain and be there to pick up on time or make good arrangements so that they don't feel worried. And yes, I understand that some kids aren't ready for that and that's fine--let them do it at their own pace.

But to look down on people who have/are willing to make arrangements with their kids for their participation in something even though the parent cannot be there ALL the time...really? To deny your older kids doing something, even if you could pick them up/drop them off on time just because you can't stay there all the time...I dunno. That seems far less about parenting and more about control. Sometimes that goes hand in hand, but a lot of times it does not. I think it does kids a disservice to restrict them from good activities just because you can't devote the same amount of time to it personally. Of course, if you really cannot make a drop off/pick up work, that's a different story, and in no way do I think kids should get to do everything they want to do when they want to do it...but surely folks can see a balance there!

Or maybe not. It would have never occured to me that people who allow their children to attend practice without them aren't parenting their kids. IMO, they are--by allowing their children the experience of greater freedom but still in a controlled, safe environment.
post #159 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCVeg View Post
Another "huge part of parenting," IMO, is allowing your children some independence and teaching them that the world does not always revolve around them. Sometimes parents have other commitments--work, other children, etc.--and I think you (the general you, not you personally) do your kids a disservice when you teach them that every other important thing in the world can be dropped for them ALL the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCVeg View Post
Finally, I was involved in many activities as a child and have many siblings. At least one of my parents (both of whom worked) always made it to "major" events (a play or concert, for example), but they were not able to attend every single game, practice, rehearsal, class, etc. Not only did their absence not bother me, but I found it actively nice, sometimes, to be on my own--to feel independent, to develop my sense of self without always having someone watching over me.
Bravo. ITA. Part of healthy parenting, is letting go. Not suddenly, dramatically at 18 when they are out of the house at university. This is actually a huge disservice to your DC, IMO. Instead, slowly, over time, respectfully, give your DC the freedom to grow and develop the life skills they need. I'd let my 8 yo walk, or be driven, to little league, and leave and come back afterwards. In fact, if I felt my 8yo would prefer to be there with his friends without me for whatever reason, I would probably respect his space and leave even if I had NOTHING else to do. I Even if I didn't want to go. Sometimes you hold your breath and let them go, and that is actually the hardest thing!
post #160 of 163
Thread Starter 
Ok, an update of sorts.

I spoke to my brother again after my niece’s game this weekend and I got a bit more background. He did/does have a contact list with parents’ phone numbers. When the parents of the boy filled out the form, they only provided a home phone number, but no cell numbers. The person who typed up the contact sheet accidentally copied the number from the line above down to match up with this family. My brother never noticed until the first game the kid came to and tried to call the parents to see where they were / why they weren’t picking the kid up. When he called the number it was “hi, you’ve reached John & Mary, etc” and realized the number was wrong / duplicated. It was on his to do list to call the head guy to get the correct number but he forgot about it until the 2nd game that the kid was left.

He now has the correct home phone number, and has spoken to the league administrator. As stated before, they have a policy that requires the coaches to stay until all of the kids are picked up. They purposely don’t have a policy requiring parents to stay for the entire game since they realize that there are times that parents need to split their time between different children or run quick errands. The form that the parents fill out states that parents agree to pick up their child “promptly” after practices and games. Again, it seems that they are leaving it sort of purposely vague in order to have some flexibility.

When speaking to the league administrator, they agreed that my brother would call the family and discuss how they had to be better at picking the kid up after the games. The administrator suggested getting a cell phone number and having my brother call during the last inning and telling the dad he needed to be back in X amount of minutes.

My brother called the house and the phone was answered by an older sibling (brother thinks he was an older teen based on the voice) and left a message for them to call him back. They didn’t call him, but he knows that teens can be unreliable with message taking and giving so he waited a few days and called the house again. This time he got an answering machine and he left a message saying he’d hoped to talk to the dad about the games and picking up the kid afterwards and maybe they could work out a solution with him calling dad’s cell phone. They haven’t returned his call and the kid has now missed two games.

Brother let administrator know where things stood and administrator was going to call the family to ask if everything was ok and if the kid still wanted to participate. Brother isn’t sure if administrator made the call yet or if he made the call and didn’t get a return call. All brother knows is that administrator told him he’d call and let him know what the family said and administrator didn’t call him to tell him anything yet.

I’ll try to update again when I get any other information.
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