Family Integrated Church?

[AFWife]

If you've attended a Family Integrated Church I'd LOVE to hear about your experience.

I came across the term in a blog I follow and there are a few in my area. I want to give it a try but it's different from any church I've ever attended.

We've had trouble finding a homechurch. The problem we're having currently is we now have a 1yo. He's always been VERY attached. Lately it's gotten worse (I'm lucky to get a shower in after his daddy gets home) Not only that, but we don't vax and I don't like the idea of leaving my child with strangers...so sending him to a nursery is out. You'd be surprised how many churches get miffed if you don't just dump your kid in the nursery.
He also doesn't like to sit still for very long unless he's tired. (and most of the church services we've found have been 2+ hours long...once the sermon gets going he's ready to leave and we can't pay attention anymore) And he likes to "talk" to you. So, I'd need a place that was welcoming of a child. He's not horribly rowdy or anything. He's just a toddler...Again, some churches get all whatever if you bring a child in...


So, I wanted to hear about a church service that was welcoming of families!

[Nazsmum]

I could have written this myself. We are trying so hard to find a new church. The one that we went to last week was nice. BUT a woman came up to me and asked me leave my 16 month old in the nursey. So I'm not sure that will be going back.

I did go to a church when I was little that had all the childern in the serives. I wish that I could find a church like that now. I think that it was an AG. The pastor was very child friendly.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by Nazsmum

I could have written this myself. We are trying so hard to find a new church. The one that we went to last week was nice. BUT a woman came up to me and asked me leave my 16 month old in the nursey. So I'm not sure that will be going back.
.

We visited a church like that. The SECOND we walked in the door we were informed they had a nursery. I said, "Okay" and went to keep walking and they ushered us into the "Wiggles and Giggles Room" at the back of the church (one of those soundproof areas) and then informed us that the pastor prefers that the children attend their "age appropriate" groups or stay in the room. DS was maybe 5 months old at the time and napping in the Ergo. We were offended so we left.

[onlyboys]

We attend the Episcopal Church where each individual church decides how the parish feels about children in the service. For my own church, all children are allowed in church and it's not uncommon to see a nursing mama in service. Usually by about 3 or so, the kids feel like they want to join in at a children's service, though they are not remotely required to. All the children come back in to service at Eucharist and stay through the end of the service.

I would be very offended if a priest asked me to relocate based upon my child's age! Our priests welcome kids into the service, interact with them at sermon time and even laugh when they are "loud." We have a very kid-friendly service.

Hope you find a happy place to go.

[lolar2]

A lot of churches have specific policies one way or the other. You could start by calling around and asking all the churches you think you might be interested in, what their policy is.

[fierrbugg]

Ladies, let me first say that I am honestly asking this question (because I don't have any living kiddos) - and not trying to start an arguement. My church has a family area so that parents can attend to their kids mid-service without worrying about disturbing the service itself and it has never occurred to me that this might be offensive. Why do you think having a seperate place for parents who want to or need to keep their lo's with them is such a bad thing? Is it the way that these particular people addressed the issue w/ you? That you don't trust/know the children's workers/volunteers? Or something else?

Our pastor asks that we not bring small children (under 6 at least) into the big service because he knows that they get bored, he talks about adult themes (marriage, sex, sin, etc.) and moreover he wants as few distractions as possible. At the same time they've never kicked anyone out of the big service for bringing small children in. Furthermore Pastor has made it abundantly clear we are a church where kids can literally run through the halls without being shushed. I also volunteer w/ the preschool ministry where the kids are free to run, jump, play, dance, sing, holler - whatever they want to do while still hearing a message that they can relate to. In the new building we'll be moving into next month, they have a slide in the wall for preschoolers to come into the classroom. Our church does extensive background checks on all children's, medical and safety team volunteers. Anecdotally we have one little boy that cries his eyes out every week when he's being dropped off, but within 5 minutes is running around crashing into things and terrorizing everyone. He is a handful but such a sweetheat and we have the space, personnel, activities etc. to address his needs while his parents' spiritual needs are getting filled each week.

[Nazsmum]

For me.....I don't want to leave my 16 month old in a new place. But even if it was not a new place...He is still b/fing and I would like to stay close to him. Also if he is in a sling and quiet, not screaming, why can't he stay with me. NOW my preschooler can go to sunday school or childrens church no problem. For me it is the age and the way that the woman came up to me "to make it known".

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by fierrbugg

Ladies, let me first say that I am honestly asking this question (because I don't have any living kiddos) - and not trying to start an arguement. My church has a family area so that parents can attend to their kids mid-service without worrying about disturbing the service itself and it has never occurred to me that this might be offensive. Why do you think having a seperate place for parents who want to or need to keep their lo's with them is such a bad thing? Is it the way that these particular people addressed the issue w/ you? That you don't trust/know the children's workers/volunteers? Or something else?

Having the area available wasn't the offensive part. I'm fine with it being there for parents to use when they need to. It was that the usher basically informed me that we were not welcome in the main sanctuary as long as we had our son with us. There was another family in there (first time visitors we found out) with a 5 week old that had been told the same thing. I feel like it should be up to ME to decide if we need to be in the room. We visited another church and utilized the "cry room" at the back of the church when DS got fussy. We sat through the praise and worship section (I don't see how a child would disrupt this...the music is usually so loud DH and I can't hear each other talk) and then DS wanted to make noise so we went to the room. No problems. No one forced it on us. THAT was the important thing.
And I'm not comfortable leaving my son with strangers. It's just a thing I have. I know that the workers go through background checks (I've worked in a nursery so I've been through the training) and I'm sure they're nice people...but I don't KNOW them. Maybe after attending a church a few times I'd be more comfortable, but the first time I visit? Nope. Also, like I said before, DS has always been very attached to me and DH. I SAH so he's never HAD to stay with anyone but us. (well, he stayed with my parents and DH's parents but that was before he was 3mo) I know there are some children that cry for a few mins and then are fine...but I've also watched the child that cries like her heart is broken the entire.time.mom.is.gone. I don't want to do that to DS. I know that they can come get me if he gets that way, but I don't even want to put him in that situation. Maybe when he gets old enough that I can EXPLAIN to him that he needs to stay? But we plan on having more children so there will probably be another baby by then...so the problem isnt' really solved.


sorry for the monologue. Did I answer your question?

[fierrbugg]

Originally Posted by Nazsmum

For me.....I don't want to leave my 16 month old in a new place. But even if it was not a new place...He is still b/fing and I would like to stay close to him. Also if he is in a sling and quiet, not screaming, why can't he stay with me. NOW my preschooler can go to sunday school or childrens church no problem. For me it is the age and the way that the woman came up to me "to make it known".

Ok, that makes sense, now. Thanks for explaining.

Originally Posted by AFWife

sorry for the monologue. Did I answer your question?

Yes, Thankyou.

[AFWife]

I also wanted to add that I was never a "nursery/children's church" kid. My parents brought us to the main service (megachurch if that matters) and would give us coloring books or other quiet activities. When I got old enough I was encouraged to read along in my Bible (I attended a private Christian school until 3rd grade so I KNEW my Bible because we did "Bible drills")

I hope no one gets offended by this: But a lot of the "children's church" services I've seen are just glorified babysitting. They hand the kids a color page, mention that Jesus loves them, and send them home with the parents. I feel like I can teach my child more by having them WITH me. A PP said that their pastor sometimes deals with "adult themes" but what a better way to open discussion than having something "taboo" mentioned in church! I'd rather they ask questions when coming from a Christian atmosphere than after visiting a friend's house.

[AFWife]

I am the Queen of Crossposting today

[Nazsmum]

Sorrry mistake

[just_lily]

I think my church has found a happy medium. I don't think anyone should be forced to send their kids to children's programs, but at the same time a lot of kids are happy to go and parents like to have the break. So I think they should be available and offered, but not mandatory. That's crazy!

My church has kids programs for up to Grade 6, including a nursery for 0-2 year olds. My DD LOVES going to nursery and playing with the other kids. Most weeks it is the only 90 minutes I have away from her all week when she isn't sleeping. I enjoy having the opportunity to focus on God, rather than my very busy little girl.

But it certainly isn't mandatory. Most parents keep their babies with them until they become mobile toddlers who don't want to sit anymore. And some people keep older kids with them too.

We have a paging system where each parent/child is assigned a number, with a little display at the front of the church. If a child gets upset in the childrens programs the volunteers will page the parents to come and get them. So you never have to sit and worry that your kid is freaking out and you don't know about it.

And we don't have a cry room, but their is a glass wall between the lobby and the sanctuary and there are speakers in the lobby. So if your kid is a little crazy but you don't want to put them in the programs you can just hang in the lobby and still follow the service.

So the idea of *having* to send your kid to Sunday school, or *having* to keep the in the service is just crazy to me. One size definitely doesn't fit all!

[cappuccinosmom]

I agree, it's not the availablity of a nursery that's upsetting. It's when a church is *so* set on age-segregation that they absolutely will not consider the needs or desires of an individual family. We don't feel welcome in a church that either wants me to drop the children off at the door, or pushes *me* out of the service because I don't want to leave an infant in the nursery. We do use Sunday School starting at about age 2, and I have no real problem with that currently.

That said the phrase "Family Integrated Church" is peculiar to a particular type of church, so if you find one labeling itself that, watch their doctrine and behavior carefully. Some are wonderful! Others get into long lists of what's OK and what's not for a Christian family, and all age-segregated activities are unacceptable to them.

[Bluegoat]

I'm fairly happy with the way my church handles things.

We have a couple of options. Parents are always welcome to keep their kids with them, and usually babies are in the main service unless they are really fussy. Some older kids stay too. I do find the culture of the church is to take out babies or kids as soon as there is a peep - I would be more tolerant myself but on the other hand the acoustics of the building mean sounds really carry around.

For school age to about age 12 there is a Sunday School program. The kids stay in church until the homily, and come back just in time for communion. It's a really good program so most of the kids attend.

There is a baby room/nursery with toys just outside the main part of the church. People use it for fussy babies or if they want a more comfortable place to nurse (the pews are a bit of a penance).

Recently some moms noticed that they and their toddlers/babies were spending most of the service in the nursery, so they decided to organize it a bit more. They arranged a rotation so that two moms (or other people) would be in there on schedule and other moms could leave their kids if they wanted to. And they started a "toddlers church" which takes about 15 minutes and has been much more successful than anticipated. We are having to arrange for a new larger room.

[lilyka]

I am Eastern orthodox and in most parishes the children stay in for the whole service (depending on when you get there it could be as long as 3 hours...give or take. My kids do the whole thing and always have. from 9:00AM to noon).

Children in our faith are a part of the faith community and nothing is held back from them. They are welcomed into the church when they are 40 days old and can get baptized immediately following that. At their baptism they also recieve the sacrements of Chrismation and Communion and are full members of the faith from then on. Since children are there from birth normal childish behavior is considered...well, normal. babbeling, crying, toys noice etc so long as it is not terribly disrupting to others. We move a lot during our services and there are lots of ways even an infant can participate in the prayers and worship. Also our sermons are not long. maybe 15 minutes. that helps. Most kids, the ones who come every week and whose parents are actively teaching them to participate, do pretty well. The way our particular parish is set up is the cry room is just a couple of feet from the Nave (where we have our services) and the parents can stand in the narthex (entry way) and participate fully while still be seperated from anyone their child would distract. or can shut the door to the cry room if privacy is needed. there is a TV in the cry room so the parent can stay tuned in to the service and participation only requires popping the door open.

I love this. I love that children are not segregated. i feel childrens church teachen children that grown up church is boring and not for them. I feel this leads to an inability to integrate into real church which is leading to even college kids going out for their "relevent" teachings because being in with the adults just isn't something they can adapt too. and why should we expect it. they hit 18 or 21 and church is something they have never actually participated in. being mixed with various generations to worship together is something they have never been exposed to. They have grown up expecting to be entertained and being taught that church was not for them.

Also I feel that worshiping as a family is the only way for us to teach our children how to worship. and how they will learn to teach their children how to worship. I want my kids to see me worshiping. see how I pray and what I do. I cannot be an example to them if they are in another room with a cheesy rock band and cartoons. I feel worship and prayer are very serious powerful things. I want my kids to experiance the fullness of them. not a dumbed down version. my children deserve the real thing. and they are smart enough and love God enough to participate the same way i do.

Honestly, I don't know that I would even go to a church that provided a nursery now that I have experianced things this way. Yes it sucks to spend every church service dealing with your kids but that is the only way they will really learn to embrace corperate worship with the adults.

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom

I agree, it's not the availablity of a nursery that's upsetting. It's when a church is *so* set on age-segregation that they absolutely will not consider the needs or desires of an individual family. We don't feel welcome in a church that either wants me to drop the children off at the door, or pushes *me* out of the service because I don't want to leave an infant in the nursery. We do use Sunday School starting at about age 2, and I have no real problem with that currently.

That said the phrase "Family Integrated Church" is peculiar to a particular type of church, so if you find one labeling itself that, watch their doctrine and behavior carefully. Some are wonderful! Others get into long lists of what's OK and what's not for a Christian family, and all age-segregated activities are unacceptable to them.

I agree. While it seems like the epitomy of Attachment parenting, I have actually found a lot of Family integrated churches to be places that lean towards ezzo like parenting. Blanket training babies to keep them quiet during the service.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by vbactivist

I agree. While it seems like the epitomy of Attachment parenting, I have actually found a lot of Family integrated churches to be places that lean towards ezzo like parenting. Blanket training babies to keep them quiet during the service.

The man I emailed said that they're used to moderate noise...and that he commended me for breastfeeding (I asked how he felt about it in service). He never once mentioned anything about schedules or training...but he may have just not mentioned it.

Originally Posted by Nazsmum

ezzo like parenting? blanket training?

Google those...

[Joyster]

Our church's nursery is at the back of the sanctuary. So basically you're in the same room as the rest of the church. There are toys, a couple of turned around pews, a rocking chair if you're nursing, although pews are fine however awkward. Our church is largely run by women, largely rabble rousers who are 60+ but have no problems with NIP or kids and they are working very hard to court the parent with youngins crowd.

There is someone who manages the nursery (retired teacher/ECE, mother of two and grandmother of two and one on the way-my MIL-parents will help too) Then they go up for story time at the front of the church, where predictably my son will have some sort of reaction to the minister's story. Then it's Sunday school for the 2 1/2+ crowd *IF* you want. (They come up for communion or special events) This is managed by another retired teacher and the nursery teacher helps and often a couple youth (our church has a policy that you have to have two or more people with vulnerable groups). If you don't want, you can simply return to the nursery and let your kids play (quietly as possible) while you try and absorb the sermon. *G*

I like it. I think the kids get to belong to the larger service AND they are taught in a more age geared manner about Christianity as well if they go down to Sunday school.

I've noticed a lot of newcomers for a while will stay with their kids through the whole thing, but as they get more comfortable, they will often let the teachers take the kids down and stay for the sermon on their own. But again, totally their choice.

Anyhow, all this is explained before the service by a congregation member and whatever the family feels is best is fine.

[vbactivist]

[QUOTE=AFWife;15401412]The man I emailed said that they're used to moderate noise...and that he commended me for breastfeeding (I asked how he felt about it in service). He never once mentioned anything about schedules or training...but he may have just not mentioned it.
QUOTE]

Like cappucinosmom said - Some are wonderful. But the ones I have found in my area tend to be this way. Very patriarchal too, as far as girls are not encouraged to go to college because they are expected to be keepers at home, and nothing else. I am not saying there is anything wrong iwth that, just not what I believe.