waiting for graduation, need encouragement

[lisavark]

I think this is my third post on this subject, so please bear with me if you've been giving me advice already. I think I mostly need encouragement at this point.

DD is 27 months now (yikes!), EC'd since two weeks old. Had lots of success, lots of misses and catches when she was a baby, and at 12 months I just decided to put her in underwear during the day, and then I figured out that if I took her potty every hour, based on timing, that she peed every time and stayed dry. So she was basically in underwear all day every day from one year on. But I always initiated. I never worried about nighttime much, and I was thinking when she turned two I would really try to take her more at night. Instead she decided she was done with me initiating, and she started refusing to go when I took her and refusing reminders. Well, I figured that was kind of her last stage of independence before graduation, so I've kind of rolled with it for the last few months and not worried about it too much. She always told me "potty" when she needed to poop, and sometimes when she needed to pee, so I figured she'd graduate any day now.

Well, then yesterday she was bare-bummed (after peeing on the floor ALL DAY, lol), and all of a sudden she got a look on her face like she needed to poop. I said, "Do you need to poop?" and she squatted a bit and started to push. On the floor! !!!! This literally has not happened since...gee, I can't even remember...at least nine months ago, maybe more. I was like, um, no, pee on the floor isn't too bad, but poop on the floor?!? Yuck! I picked her up and took her to the potty, which she didn't mind at all, and she pooped on the potty.

But today when I picked her up from preschool (she goes two days a week, started in January when she was 23 months), they told me that she pooped in her pants at school today. !?!?!?!? Seriously, this has not happened in almost a year. I am...flabbergasted.

So basically now I'm feeling like a total EC failure. Sure, I know I should be grateful for the fact that I've hardly ever changed poop diapers in her life, really since she was around three months old she's pretty much pooped in the potty. But I just don't think I can handle the thought of having to change them now! Pee, sure, no problem, but poop diapers are GROSS!!! I honestly don't even know how to change them! And solid toddler poop?!?! Um...yikes!

So...help?!? I really don't want to push her, I know she needs independence, i know it's her body, etc. etc. etc., but argh!

I actually went out today and bought a new potty (had her pick it out) and a potty training DVD. Not something I EVER thought I'd be doing. But what the heck. I really think she doesn't like ME reminding her to go potty, so I thought maybe if it were coming from a DVD instead, she'd be more interested. Is that totally wrong and un-EC of me?

Please tell me I haven't totally ruined her initiative and independence by taking her potty based on timing for the past year.

[sapphire_chan]

What have they been doing at school regarding pottying?

I did/do timing and Lina often tells me, so that isn't the problem.

As for using DVDs, it's certainly worth trying. Lina was like "signing, WHAT-EVER" until the signing time DVDs. Sometimes info just has to come from not-the-parents.

(And from having changed my relative's kids, the way I handle poopy diapers is to use like 20 wet wipes. Kind of wasteful, but it was all I could figure out what to do. OTOH, one time I managed to get the diaper off before the kid sat down and that was waaay less ick.)

[lisavark]

Oh--thanks for asking--I totally forgot to explain about school. Her Montessori preschool is AWESOME with pottying...she's in a toddler class and they are basically late-start EC'ing the entire class, which is 15 to 36 month olds. Some of the babies were EC'd by their parents, and some were sposie-diapered their whole lives, but at school they all wear cloth trainers and use the potty. They basically use timing and encourage all the kids to sit on the potty at regular times (when they arrive, after snack, after lunch, etc.). However, of course the younger kids pee in their pants a lot, and I kind of wonder whether that hasn't influenced DD to think it's the cool thing to do or something. Her teachers want her to move to the primary class soon--they aren't at all concerned about her "not being potty trained yet," which is funny since usually that's an issue with Montessori, but I'm not complaining --and I'm thinking that maybe when she's surrounded by bigger kids who all use the potty, she might just decide it's the thing to do then.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by lisavark

Her teachers want her to move to the primary class soon--they aren't at all concerned about her "not being potty trained yet," which is funny since usually that's an issue with Montessori, but I'm not complaining --and I'm thinking that maybe when she's surrounded by bigger kids who all use the potty, she might just decide it's the thing to do then.

Win! Cause the other thing I was thinking is that older kids can really help things.

[emmaegbert]

Originally Posted by lisavark

I'm thinking that maybe when she's surrounded by bigger kids who all use the potty, she might just decide it's the thing to do then.

I bet you are right about this. Sometimes there is nothing like a little peer pressure when a kid has the skills and isn't quite using them yet...

(and I *loved* how the one M school with a toddler class I visited handled pottying. So great! I was really impressed by that.)

[lexmas]

Well, DS was EC'd from birth and did not graduate until a week before his 3rd birthday, so I'm not sure if his "normal" is reassuring or not...

BUT, between 2 and a few months and 3 we had some periods of pooping in his pants/diaper. Which hadn't happened since he was about 5 months old, so it was very very strange. In fact, I remember 2 or 3 weeks in August (his birthday is in November) where he only pooped in his diapers. It was weird, and kind of gross, but we chose not to make a big deal out of it and just let it go, and it did stop.

Now, in that time period, we spent a month and a half watching his grandpa die, he got a little sister, and we moved...which, for my extremely emotional kid was quite a toll, so I'm sure that had something to do with it. Heck, it's over a year later and he's still reeling from it. But, it did happen, and we just pretended like it was no big deal, reminded him that poop goes in the potty, and cleaned him all up. Sometimes he got a bath even though he hated baths, just because well, by the time he was 2.5 it was a lot of poop and we really felt like he needed one after that! But it wasn't as punishment, it was just natural consequence, and it was unfortunate that he hated baths!

[pixiepunk]

i think you need to let go of your attachment to the outcome of the process, and spend some time connecting w/your DD. much like in a nursing strike, potty disruptions are best overcome by some reconnection. maybe it is school itself - less time w/mama, new expectations, etc that are causing a little regression. wear her, cuddle her, nurse her, skin to skin when feasible. clear the calendar for a few days and just chill together.

this has been really important for us lately as i'm back in school. her pottying didn't regress but other things did, and reconnecting when we can has been crucial for us both. it is hard sometimes to be apart, even when it's necessary and even when for the most part everyone benefits from the time apart.

also i'd say once you've reconnected a little, try to feel what she's communicating rather than thinking it. remember those "she has to pee!" gut instinct moments from infancy? we can lose touch w/them over time, but i think they're still there if we can open ourselves to them.

[lisavark]

Just have to share a couple of really cool updates! Thanks so much for all the support, mamas. I'm feeling way better about this whole thing already.

First of all, pixiepunk, I totally agree about the gut instinct moments--I had one yesterday. It was so weird because DD has peed about an hour before (on the floor, of course ), and so ordinarily (based on timing) I wouldn't have thought that she needed to pee yet. But all of a sudden out of the blue, without even thinking about it, I heard myself asking DD, "do you need to go potty?" She looked at me and said, "yes," and peed on the floor. I actually didn't even mind that it was on the floor, because I was so stoked about the gut-instinct-connection moment...I LOVED those when she was little, and it felt so cool to realize that I still have them. I used to say that if I knew a pee was coming, it counted as a catch no matter where the pee ended up going! And that was totally how I felt in that moment.

Anyway, then later on I was thinking about the whole conversation on this thread about school and everything, and I had another connection moment like the ones I used to have when she was little. This was one of those revelation moments when I suddenly saw exactly how the world looks through DD's eyes. I had these a lot when she was a baby, but it's been a while. Anyway, I realized that she's getting close to the age when her peers and her social circle becomes a lot more important (threes are the first teenagers, right? And that starts around 2.5, from what I've read), and she's beginning to look more to her peers for guidance instead of just me. And all her peers use diapers. Sure, the toddlers at school wear trainers, but they're almost all younger than her, and nearly all of them still have lots of accidents--the ones who are really potty trained have moved up to the older class. In her playgroup, there is ONE kid who's potty trained--many of the rest haven't even started yet--and we actually haven't played with the one kid who's potty trained since he finished potty training. So basically, all of DD's friends wear diapers. And she's looking at them and thinking, hey, how come they don't pee in the potty? Why do *I* pee in the potty? Am I different? What's wrong with me?!? So naturally she started peeing on the floor! Poor girl! Of course she doesn't want to be different!

Haha! I feel bad for her. And now it makes perfect sense to me that this kind of regression is so much more common in the west than it is in EC'ing countries--obviously if everybody were EC'ing then it wouldn't be a problem, and her peers would reinforce what she was already doing.

So now I'm really glad I got the DVD I did. I wasn't so thrilled with it when I saw it, because it talks a lot about how "big kids use the potty" and "it's fun to be a big kid," but at least it shows lots of other kids (real kids, not cartoons) using the potty, and hopefully it will help DD realize that she's not different, and her friends are all going to start using the potty eventually, too. And DD loves it. She watched it two or three times yesterday while my mom was babysitting, and today so far she's peed in the potty every time. I'm not expecting that to last at all, but I'm appreciating it in the moment.

[LCBMAX]

not so relevant but - on the subject of dvds - we LOVE this video.

[sapphire_chan]

Could you also try "do you want to show Friend how to use the potty?" with the friends whose parents don't mind? It'd probably be really helpful for kids who are just starting the PL process.

[lisavark]

More good updates!

So yesterday as DD was sitting on the toilet pooping, she announced to me, "Mommy, poop goes in the potty!" Yes, I said, it does. "And pee," she added, "goes on the floor!" Um, what?!? LOL. So we had a long talk about how even though sometimes when kids are learning about pee and poop the pee does accidentally go on the floor, but it's never supposed to go on the floor, and grownups never put pee on the floor, and all kids eventually learn to put ALL their pee in the potty. But it was cool because it confirmed what I've been thinking, that she's been watching other kids and she's decided that this is the right thing to do.

And last night I had a NIGHTTIME EC success, which was awesome because we've never really EC'd at night! But she refused to wear a diaper at bedtime, which she does sometimes, and I was like, ok, just let me know when you need to pee. When I went to bed at midnight, I just *knew* she had to pee. I asked her if she needed to pee, and she didn't respond. She rolled over and I swear I saw a phantom wet spot spreading under her...I just knew she was about to relax and pee before she fell back asleep, and I was thinking how I was going to have to put a towel on the bed and change her clothes and have all that smelly mess in the middle of the night, because I also knew that if I tried to pick her up and take her to the bathroom, she was going to scream and cry and refuse to go. So I was sitting there thinking, what can I do? How can I take her potty without upsetting her? And then I thought, duh! Breastfeed!

So I picked up my two year old and put her on my breast, and then carefully carried her to the bathroom. Still breastfeeding, I pulled her pants down--she protested a little, so I rocked her and shushed her. Then I sat down on the edge of the tub, still breastfeeding, and cued her to pee.

And then she took her mouth off my breast and said, "pee! pee!"--in a sad, groaning little voice, like she was really upset about it. I said, "Yes, it's okay, you can pee now," and she did, and fortunately I had her aimed so she didn't get any on me, and we were both so relieved! LOL! I wiped her, pulled her pants back up, and brought her back to bed--all while still breastfeeding. And then I went to sleep, feeling like an EC/breastfeeding goddess.

[sapphire_chan]

[LCBMAX]

Originally Posted by lisavark

And then I went to sleep, feeling like an EC/breastfeeding goddess.

you are! you are!

[Harmony96]

I love your last update!