my realization about why i'm so against RIC

[mama24-7]

in talking w/ my mother about the possibility of my still-in-utero nephew being circ'd, i really started to think about why i'm so passionate about this. i realized it's because of how my daily life is effected by dh's circ, w/o getting into any detail.

i think/worry/obsess about this because so many see this as just another decision to be made when you have a baby & there are no effects beyond the decision. like so many decisions that parents in this culture make, they really have life long consequences.

so, the friend's baby i tried to save in 10/08, the twins born last june, the boy born last nov., the baby who's sex i didn't know until last dec., the two boys due this aug & sept., all these eventual men, may have a woman thinking about why their life is like it is in 25-30 years. it's because of a decision that was made about their SO that was unfortunately taken from them.

anyone else feel this way? similar? completely different? please share your thoughts.

thanks,
sus

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

I don't really think of it that way. I kept all three of my boys intact because I felt it was a painful, risky, unnecesary operation. It never occured to me to look at it from the point of view of their future SO. I honestly don't do a anything within my children's lives because of their possible future relationships. I honestly, wouldn't have wanted my parents making choices about my body based on what my SO would think either.

But, I can see what you are saying if you've had difficulty in your relationship due to circ.

[jenP]

QOTM, you may not have been thinking specifically of your sons' future partners, but you DID recognize that circ is RISKY. One of those risks is the risk of moderately to severely harming the man's normal sexual functioning, and as such it does impact his partners.
Leaving the boy as nature made him leaves all future possibilities open.
Choosing to cut him means opening him up to all kinds of risks, not only the short-term risks of pain, bleeding, infection, and possible death, but the long-term risks of impaired sexual function, which of course can negatively affect a relationship.
Those of us with husbands or friends who have these types of complications are acutely aware of these long-term risks of circumcision and so naturally are even more horrified by RIC than someone who might not be aware of the possible impact of circ on the boy's future. Of course, the medical establishment NEVER mentions these risks so how can parents really make an "informed" decision? They are told the only risks are possibly some bleeding... they think if the boy makes it through the operation and the healing phase then all is just fine. Unfortunately as the OP and many others are aware, that is far from the case. Just because the boy didn't bleed to death or get a staph infection does NOT mean all is fine with his circumcision. Why would anyone take that kind of risk with their son??? I guess because they just don't know.

Jen

[PuppyFluffer]

We are raising adults. Not children.

This fact is present in my mind in regards to the decisions that I am blessed/tasked to make for them.

I want my children to be graced with the bodies that Nature/God gave them. To alter their body would change their experience of their body and that is not my place to do. I want my children to grow up to be adults and experience their physical being the way it was intended. So, for me, the decision to leave my children intact was based upon their own personal experience of their bodies.

It is a natural next step that by leaving their body as Nature/God intended, any partners they choose to have will also experience their natural body and that will equate to their own individual experience. But, I didn't specifically make this decision with my child's future partner in mind.

I totally understand how the experience of physical intimacy with an altered person changes the experience and I completely understand how a person would not want to create that experience for another person (by having their child circumcised).

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Originally Posted by jenP

QOTM, you may not have been thinking specifically of your sons' future partners, but you DID recognize that circ is RISKY. One of those risks is the risk of moderately to severely harming the man's normal sexual functioning, and as such it does impact his partners.
Leaving the boy as nature made him leaves all future possibilities open.
Choosing to cut him means opening him up to all kinds of risks, not only the short-term risks of pain, bleeding, infection, and possible death, but the long-term risks of impaired sexual function, which of course can negatively affect a relationship.
Those of us with husbands or friends who have these types of complications are acutely aware of these long-term risks of circumcision and so naturally are even more horrified by RIC than someone who might not be aware of the possible impact of circ on the boy's future. Of course, the medical establishment NEVER mentions these risks so how can parents really make an "informed" decision? They are told the only risks are possibly some bleeding... they think if the boy makes it through the operation and the healing phase then all is just fine. Unfortunately as the OP and many others are aware, that is far from the case. Just because the boy didn't bleed to death or get a staph infection does NOT mean all is fine with his circumcision. Why would anyone take that kind of risk with their son??? I guess because they just don't know.

Jen

True, true. But at the moment of the decision, it wasn't about someone elses pleasure, it was about avoiding unnecesary pain, as an infant and as an adult for MY child. It didn't cross my mind to consider how it would affect someone else in the future, besides my son.

Reading here and hearing the stories of how women suffer physically from circ. has made me think about it. But at the time, no. It wasn't a deciding factor, and I do think that that had to do with the fact that I have never been with a partner that had a negative side effect (ya' know, except for missing part of his penis!). I can definitely understand how seeing the side effects caused by circ could bring that to the forefront of someone's mind. It just wasn't my experience.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

We are raising adults. Not children.

This fact is present in my mind in regards to the decisions that I am blessed/tasked to make for them.

Exactly. Which is why the pro-circ argument of "parents make lots of decisions for their children" holds no weight. The baby has to live with the penis for the next 80 years. He is the only person who will feel the sensations coming from it. That means that the choice is his, and his alone.

[knitted_in_the_wom]

Dr. Christine Northrup has a great article about how male circumcision affects female sex life. Its really very eye opening.

I wish she had rearranged it some though. Get right to the "meaty" parts about female sexual response in the first page to grab a female reader's attention, and leave the other "standard" arguments about circ for later in the document. Because I think that most women who favor circ would tune out the article and quit reading it long before they get to the eye opening "and this is how it makes your sex life less fullfilling" stuff is finally discussed on about the 3rd page.

And yes...I believe that my husband's circ negatively affects our sexual relationship.

[knitted_in_the_wom]

Originally Posted by QueenOfTheMeadow

Reading here and hearing the stories of how women suffer physically from circ. has made me think about it. But at the time, no. It wasn't a deciding factor, and I do think that that had to do with the fact that I have never been with a partner that had a negative side effect (ya' know, except for missing part of his penis!). I can definitely understand how seeing the side effects caused by circ could bring that to the forefront of someone's mind. It just wasn't my experience.

Well...I've never had a partner who reported having a problem with circ either.

But I heard an interesting analogy once. A man who had routine infant circ saying that he doesn't have a problem being circed is kind of like a man who has never driven a Jaguar saying that "there is no difference between a Jaguar and a Mazda--they both get you from point A to point B."

Also, when it comes to my hubby...when he tries to mimic positioning and technique that we have read are natural for men who are intact...I greatly enjoy it, and I do believe that if he could maintain it long enough I would have a vaginal orgasm. But when he switches to what he needs to do in order to obtain his own orgasm, I stop enjoying it completely. There is just no longer stimulation to the "right" areas, and I no longer feel "connected" to him. I will admit to "faking" a little bit so that my hubby does not know that. I only do that because I love him and want him to get his...and I know that he will return the favor after he is done.