Any negative aspect of the Montessori method? - Page 2

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by momtoS

Okay, can I ask why imagination is discouraged? I never really understood that. I was going to register my daughter in Montessori. Just going on the tour made me nervous and uncomfortable. Kind of like going to your grandmother's house as a kid and she had alot of cool china etc but you couldn't touch anything. I just couldn't imagine my daughter being there all day learning how to use cleaning cloths and folding laundry.

It's not discouraged exactly, although I gather some implementations do.

Here's how I look at it that I think is reasonably in line with Montessori. When my son was 2 and a half, he wanted to do everything I was doing. And he wanted to learn what everything was for. And he wanted to learn all that "correctly" - that is, if you showed him a baby way to do something, then he would get very upset.

My understanding is that how Maria Montessori developed her materials was that she filled a classroom with every kind of toy, and she found that when the children had the option to use the real thing, they preferred it. They also wanted to know how to do things correctly.

That is definitely consistent with our experience. My son now has a very active imagination but at 2.5, what passed for "imagination" was more imitation. I wanted it to be imagination because in our society we kind of compete on our kids' "great imaginations" but compared to his brain now - wow, no it was not, not in the same way.

Sure, if we had told him about fairies and gnomes he would have talked about fairies and gnomes, but it was more or less the same thing as talking about caterpillars and butterflies.

As a professional writer and editor and a fiction writer, I definitely strongly believe that in order to express one's imagination one has to be grounded in reality on some level. You can't come up with Lord of the Rings if you've never observed real people, trees, etc.

I strongly believe in the value of imagination but I think a LOT of what passes for imagination in young children today is actually a) social and b) adult-driven. The whole Disney Princess thing is one example - I love princesses and fairy tales but the age and way some people introduce makes it such a basic construct that it may as well be real.

So for me this aspect of Montessori is something I cherish when it's done in a respectful way - letting the child lead. I see it as providing an environment that is very rich in reality so the child doesn't have to elaborate until he or she really is ready to.

At that point I really don't think Montessori does discourage it - there are plenty of stories and the kids do plays and play outside together and stuff. It's more that the basic principle is that for the 3-6 age, there's just so much good reality.

I think Montessori sometimes is a system that requires some patience and faith, which can be a downside. I don't mean a blind faith but that yes, your kid does have an imagination even if the teacher isn't leading the kids to imagine themselves as knights.

[JessieBird]

The only thing that has really turned me off of some M schools I've visited is the lack of physical contact and physical care shown to the children. I've seen independence taken way too far with very young children - such as adults refusing to soothe a lonely/melancholy/hurt 18 mo and instead leaving them alone to get over it on their own. I have also read plenty of M books that discourage carrying, holding, wearing, breastfeeding, etc, from a young age. I just can't rationalize this and it goes against everything in me. It is very possible to provide a child an envrionment in which their own independence will flourish without depriving them of loving human contact. Thankfully we found an M school that balances it all and DS is thriving. Some other schools had a chill in the air.

I won't weigh in on the imagination play issue since many far more knowledgeable and articulate than I already have.

I'd just add though that sleeping mats are totally possible for young toddlers. I wouldn't have believed it either but it took less than a week for DS at 13 mos to be going over to his own mat when he was tired or when it was naptime.

[J. Jones]

For my four year old, the M approach lacked spontaneous play and group-play time. He was often "redirected" by the teacher who eventually brought his "problematic" behavior to my attention. The kids were asked to work mostly independently and sometimes in pairs. But some young kids LOVE being with groups. I don't think he needed a bunch of action figures to make him happy, but a few costumes and some instruction-free space would have really given him a break from all the "work" he was expected to choose.

Now that I've read about the Vygotskian ideas on how play teaches children emotional and physical regulation...I regret having my preschooler in an all-day program that prevented him from getting his needs met.

I took him out early and we're spending the spring and summer PLAYING with kids (and reading).

[BCFD]

The only thing that has really turned me off of some M schools I've visited is the lack of physical contact and physical care shown to the children. I've seen independence taken way too far with very young children - such as adults refusing to soothe a lonely/melancholy/hurt 18 mo and instead leaving them alone to get over it on their own.

I don't think this is a Montessori approach, but more of an individual teacher approach. My oldest, very sensitive DD spent 2 years in a private montessori school (from age 3 to 5) with very loving teachers that would show lots of "affection" to her when she was upset or frustrated. I have seen those same teachers letting a child sit by him/herself while pouting or throwing a tantrum while totally refusing any comfort from the teacher. The infant and toddler teachers are incredibly loving and sweet and are masters at redirection when a child is upset!

Now that DD is ending her kindy year in a public Montessori charter school, I don't want them to "baby" her. We are very fortunate to have her in this school and her teacher is probably one of the most amazing, gentle, peaceful people I've ever met without being the "touchy feely" type. I have told her several times that I am going to write a book of her "one liners" because they are so motivating!!!

[GuildJenn]

This is a nice piece on Vygotsky and Montessori if anyone's interested: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

I might not have made clear that I personally didn't find that what passes for "imaginative play" in the play-based preschools I visited was respectful of individual kids or child-led. For us our particular Montessori is actually much better at that.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

This is a nice piece on Vygotsky and Montessori if anyone's interested: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

I might not have made clear that I personally didn't find that what passes for "imaginative play" in the play-based preschools I visited was respectful of individual kids or child-led. For us our particular Montessori is actually much better at that.

That article is very interesting, particularly the comparison between Montessori's theories of autoeducation (as it's referred to in the article) and Vygotsky's views on the importance of adult-guided instruction.

Thanks for posting it.

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by momtoS

I just couldn't imagine my daughter being there all day learning how to use cleaning cloths and folding laundry.

Oh goodness, it's nothing like that. :

DS goes to a Montessori school, and they are encouraged to work with everything! Even as a 3 year old, if you can use a 5 year old work appropriately (meaning not throwing it around the room and disrespecting it), you can do it. There is also a lot of free art where they can work on drawing, etc.--my son brings home these 10-15 page books he wrote and illustrated himself from the free art bin. The continent studies are hugely imaginative--just this year, the entire great room was tranformed into a huge area that replicates Asia (complete with small versions of houses built out of traditional materials, a strip of open "storefronts", and an area for Asian games. They were able to dress in traditional clothing and play in the village. It was awesome!) He also gets several recesses where he can run around and pretend and do whatever he wants. I don't see that as much different than a public school preschool or kindergarten--there are times where they are expected to work and times where they are expected to play. Only in non-Montessori schools, those times are very specific ("work on this worksheet now. listen to this lecture now. make your paper plate frog now.")

We also have a Montessori-based home and homeschool the younger ones with montessori materials. And we certainly do encourage imagination too! I think there are times for work and times for imagination, and a well balanced Montessori child will be able to do both well.

[onlyboys]

Originally Posted by momtoS

Okay, can I ask why imagination is discouraged? I never really understood that. I was going to register my daughter in Montessori. Just going on the tour made me nervous and uncomfortable. Kind of like going to your grandmother's house as a kid and she had alot of cool china etc but you couldn't touch anything. I just couldn't imagine my daughter being there all day learning how to use cleaning cloths and folding laundry.

It's not so much that imagination is discouraged (at least at my son's school); it's that the materials serve an important purpose in the overall education of the child. The pink tower, as an example, isn't meant to be used as free-form building time. It's a sensorial work that encourages students to understand larger concepts that will help them later in their education. So, while a student would be redirected and taught the proper way to handle and interact with the materials, the imagination aspect isn't really addressed so much.

We have very imaginative children who are also academically above grade level. We never restrict imagination at home. That's not appropriate because my house isn't a school. (Though some homeschooling families would need to readjust this notion, I suppose! )

Polishing, folding, washing tables, etc. all serve an important role in the student's holistic education. Some of it helps with fine motor skills, some of it has to do with caring for the environment and keeping work spaces neat and clean and respecting the person that comes after you. These are all vital skills that are often overlooked by schools.

When I first observed our M classroom, I immediately had the feeling that these kids just weren't normal! What on earth could the school and teachers do to these kids that makes them be so focused and on task. I was sitting in a classroom with THIRTY-SIX 3-6 year olds and it was quiet. All the students (every single one, without fail) were engaged in either observation of someone's hard work or in their own project. It was frankly a little bit creepy.

Then I read about the three period lesson, the three hour work cycle and the materials. I spent some time educating myself about what the hell my kids were talking about when they said, "I did farm work today," or talked about golden bead, stamp game, exchange game, leaf polishing, pushpin, staple work or whatever other weird lesson they had that week. One of my boys spent almost six weeks stapling on a line. It's all the work I saw come home!

With a little bit of understanding and much more observation of my own children, I feel like I finally get it. All the lessons (which are NOT playing; they do plenty of playing outside and after school) are foundational work that will help them when they enter the lower elementary (6-9) class, upper elementary (9-12) and secondary I (12-15). Even the silver polishing, and wiping down tables. It's all part of that huge spiral of Montessori learning.

Back on topic: My only perceived negative is that Montessori is not fully accessible to really make a huge impact on the general population or on education. We need more public Montessori schools, in my opinion.

[indie]

I think a lot of the problem is not understanding what is going on in the class. For days at the beginning of the school year my daughter would talk about "male insects". I kept trying to figure out what they heck they were teaching her about the gender of insects and why she would be so fascinated with it. Finally I started looking around Montessori websites and realized that she was trying to say "metal insets". I was able to read about how this activity is work for pre-writing. It makes a lot of sense now, but if I had just seen her doing the activity I wouldn't have understood why she was doing such a thing over and over.

I used to think that I would choose Waldorf if there were any way we could afford it. (Montessori is possible for us only because its a public school.) But the more I learn about Montessori the more brilliant it seems to be. The only thing I dislike about our Montessori public school is that they do far too many non-Montessori things in order to meet state standards.

[BCFD]

Originally Posted by indie

I think a lot of the problem is not understanding what is going on in the class. For days at the beginning of the school year my daughter would talk about "male insects". I kept trying to figure out what they heck they were teaching her about the gender of insects and why she would be so fascinated with it. Finally I started looking around Montessori websites and realized that she was trying to say "metal insets".

That is hilarious!!!!

But the more I learn about Montessori the more brilliant it seems to be. The only thing I dislike about our Montessori public school is that they do far too many non-Montessori things in order to meet state standards.

I am impressed every single day by a Montessori lesson in my child's class. It truly is a brilliant way of educating children. I'm still blown away that she is doing dynamic addition (carrying over with thousands), but she doesn't *know* that is what she is doing. She is being exposed to this work over and over and over and eventually it will all come together and it will just click. I have already expressed my disappointment to my own mother about the public school experience I had as a child. Ick.

My children go to a Montessori charter school and I totally agree about the non-Montessori things they are doing. However, it's such a SMALL percentage that I can live with it. 90% of what they are doing is true Montessori work (and we are blessed to have such a fantastic teacher who is a true Montessorian!) I just keep reminding myself that even if my children have to take the state standardized tests, being in a Montessori environment is still 100x better than sitting at a desk all day copying notes from the teacher's lecture. Our 4th graders get to sit on a couch, floor, work on coffee tables, etc. The public school 4th graders are all sitting at a desk, all day, in a teacher led environment. There truly is no comparison.