Please help me figure out WHY dd is acting like this

[crwilson]

I posted not too long ago about sibling rivalry issues, and I'm back because I'm at my wit's end. DD1 is behaving worse by the day, and I'm reading parenting books whenever I can, and I can't figure anything out.

First of all, dd1 is spirited and always has been. She's 3. I found Mary Kurcinka's Raising Your Spirited Child very helpful to think about her personality, but not as helpful to deal with actual problems. Anyway, here it is:

1) She's honestly discontent, whiny, and unhappy 80% of the time that she's awake. The smallest thing upsets her and moves her to tears - a spilled snack, a stuck puzzle piece, a wet shirt, a "no" about anything - yelling, whining, crying. When we're out and about, people are always sympathetic and say, "Oh, she must be tired." I agree, but what I want to say is, "No, she's like this all the time."

2) She's becoming more aggressive, especially toward her new little sister. Before dd2 was born, dd1 was hitting me a lot. Now she doesn't hit me, but hits her sister instead. I wear dd2 all day long, taking her out only for diaper changes and sleeping at night because I can't leave her unattended or even with me sitting beside her because dd1 will hit her.

3) She does not listen or respond to requests. If I ask her to keep water in the tub, she promptly takes a cup and dumps it out of the bath. If I ask her to sit gently on the couch, she leaps on it like it's a trampoline. If I ask her to walk on the sidewalk, she bolts for the road. Yes, she's obviously trying to provoke me and see what I'll do. But there are some things that really, really she just can't do (i.e. running in the road).

4) She is not always like this. But she gets in these "moods" (dh calls her the hulk) where she transforms and is manic - throwing, kicking, being rough, yelling, crying, whining - not tantrums exactly because it's not sustained or in response to anger exactly - she's just wild until something happens to reach a peak. All of my attempts to help her calm down end in utter failure, whether it's hugs, quiet time, distraction, silliness - it's like she starts and there's just no stopping until she has a complete meltdown.

Yes, dd1 has a new sibling (dd2 is 6 weeks), so her world has been unsettled. But she did all of these things before, and they've just intensified. I make sure that every day we have some quality alone-time together, where we play together at her direction. She gets 12 hours of sleep a night. She eats regularly. We go to the park every day so that she has plenty of exercise. I keep a pretty regular schedule because changes and adapting is difficult for her.

Ultimately, I most often do not enjoy being around dd1. I feel like a failure as a parent because other people don't enjoy being around her either, and I don't know how to help her manage the big emotions she's obviously feeling. She really won't or can't talk to me about what's going on with her and why she's acting the way that she does. I don't know whether to be stricter (or what that would mean), more understanding, or what. I just know that this situation is untenable for our family because I can't stand living in our household. It is loud and chaotic and unpleasant, no matter how much I try to make things pleasant, cooperative, and kind.

It's probably worth mentioning that she's in a preschool, at which she is happy, cooperative, and independent. When I pick her up, she says, "I don't want to go home."

[Llyra]

Oh, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Honestly, I think the main thing is she's three. They're like that. I remember when DD1 was three, thinking that there was something I was doing horribly wrong, that maybe DD needed a counselor or something. Then I started talking to other mothers, especially of girls, and found out that it's really just being three. It doesn't help, too, that so many three year olds are dealing with being three, AND with the upheaval of siblings being born. Our expectations of them are higher than they were a year before, because they're the "big" kids now, and because they are so verbal that I think we just start to expect maturity they aren't really ready to deliver. Also, I think that the way we handle crying (complaining, whining, discontent, tantrums) has to shift as they get out of babyhood-- our focus when they were babies was on preventing crying, meeting needs quickly, and never letting them be alone. I think it starts to change as they grow-- suddenly their needs are more complicated, and sometimes they need more firmness, and sometimes they even really badly need some time AWAY from us to get their balance back.

I wish I had a whole bunch of solutions, but I just don't. I can say that it gets easier-- DD1 is almost 6 now, and she's markedly a different child. And my twins are three now, and yeah-- here it is again, all the complaining and whining and drama and outbursts.

What I would do is begin to set calm, firm limits about what you will and will not tolerate as far as her treatment of you. Saying things like, "If you continue whining, I'm going to go upstairs to get away from it, because I don't like it," and then following through, can really help in the long run, if you do it consistently. My DD1 also couldn't calm down while I was trying to help, and a lot of times I would pick her up and put her in her bed, and leave her alone, and she'd find her own way out of it so much quicker than she would have if I'd stayed there and struggled with her.

Like with the running in the road thing-- I wouldn't even talk to her. Grab her before she's in real danger, and then quietly pop her into a stroller or into the car or into the front door, without comment. All you need to say is, "that's not safe." Then turn away and do something else. Be unmoved by protests, calm but very serious, and don't let her try again until she's calmed down, even if it takes a long time. Same with the couch-- as soon as she jumps, say calmly, "we don't do that," and then deposit her in another room. Walk away and go do something else. If she comes out again and tries again, repeat as needed. Same with the tub-- first dump, and you're out. No big reaction, no lecture, no yelling, but yeah, the bath is over, even if you're not washed yet even.

I go through this with DS over things sometimes-- I have to keep quietly telling him no, removing him, and then he comes right back and tries again, and we might do it a thousand times before he realizes that 1. I'm not going to get angry and give him a big reaction, but 2. I'm prepared to sit there all night if necessary. It takes him a day or two, but then he works out I mean it, and goes off to test some other limit.

My approach to the tantrums has been just to sit quietly and wait. With DD1, I used to sit down to nurse the babies nearby, and read a magazine, and sort of act mildly interested. She knew I was there if she wanted me, but she could also see that I wasn't being drawn into her storm of emotions either-- that no matter how out of control she got, I was still firmly in control of myself. I would just sort of watch out of the corner of my eye, so I could step in if she was really going to hurt somebody or break something, but otherwise not participate at all. She'd get through her emotions, and then eventually come sit down next to me and reach for me, whereupon we'd talk about what happened. I think when we try too hard to get them to stop, they really just can't stop. They need us to be the unmovable rock in the rushing river, ya know?

So that would be my approach-- work on the calm and unmovable "we don't do that." It's been our best strategy.

[mom2grrls]

Does she nap? Even with 12 hrs of sleep she may need a rest in the early afternoon. From the examples you gave with not responding to requests(tub and walking), I would rephrase those things. "Keep the water in the tub", "We're walking now"-have her take showers instead of baths, keep her hand in yours while walking.
Another thing I do when I find my child(ren) having behaviors that are like what you describe is I look at what dh and I do. I think about how I react to situations and how I speak to the kids and others, maybe they're getting something from me. I also look at what kind of sleep i'm getting, sometimes things seem so much worse when i'm tired or feel overwhelmed.

[Just1More]

I go through this with DS over things sometimes-- I have to keep quietly telling him no, removing him, and then he comes right back and tries again, and we might do it a thousand times before he realizes that 1. I'm not going to get angry and give him a big reaction, but 2. I'm prepared to sit there all night if necessary. It takes him a day or two, but then he works out I mean it, and goes off to test some other limit.



I only know what you posted, and there may be a lot in the background that makes what I'm about to say irrelevant, FTR... But, it sounds to me that she needs a lot more order and predictability. You mentioned that she needs schedules, etc, and has a hard time without them. But, you also mentioned that you do a lot of different things when she is needing help getting through something. I would pick one way to respond to negative behavior. As the pp said, I would be calm, but firm and quick. It sounds like she needs more predictability from your actions to feel secure in herself. Maybe she isn't one that needs a varied approach?

[crwilson]

Ahh, yes...what she needs is probably more order and predictability, which at least partly might explain why she is so much happier and better behaved at school. I really do feel like she's "testing" to see what we'll do, especially with things like hitting, dumping bath water, running in the road, etc. Not so much the whining. I feel like that's just her natural reaction. I've been so frustrated that I've been trying different things, and I can see how it would be better to stick to just one response, which will probably be removing myself or her from situations. She's very social, and the last thing that she wants is to not be with her sister and me.

It's good to hear the reminder not to talk too much and not to be moved by promises to be "done hitting" and crying. I spend what seems like a whole lot of time giving warnings and explaining why we don't do this or that (which makes me feel ridiculous because obviously at least a part of the "we" does hit, whine, and dump water). And then, when I finally do remove myself or her, and she cries, I feel so badly for her that I come right back and we start the cycle all over again.

Part of me knew what all of you were saying - but I just can't seem to put it into practice. She does these things because she will eventually get a big reaction, and I will eventually break down. (read, not orderly, predictable, or consistent). I am exhausted, and that makes it more difficult to react the way that I would like to react. I would like to be unmoved by the storm, but generally I am very moved and too tired to conceal my own anger, sadness, and frustration, which again makes everything worse. Do all children test limits again and again and again??

All of this also makes me think that what I might need to do is take better care of myself so that I don't feel so tired, frustrated, and angry that I'm unable to do the things that I know I ought to do...

[nina_yyc]

Just

I was right where you are about 3 months ago and DD is slooooowly getting better. I agree with everything PP are saying - it's how I strive to parent as well and when I am successful I do see a more peaceful home. Yes my DD has tested limits over and over too.

You are absolutely right to take care of yourself. Your body is still recovering from pregnancy and sustaining a tiny baby.

Good luck!

[Caittune]

possibly irrelevant question, but have you noticed any correlation with what she is eating and the episodes? DD is sensitive to food dyes and artificial flavors and her reactions and behavior is similar to what you describe during a reaction. Just a thought. For us, rescue remedy will sometimes help her.

[Grace and Granola]

Originally Posted by crwilson

Ahh, yes...what she needs is probably more order and predictability, which at least partly might explain why she is so much happier and better behaved at school. I really do feel like she's "testing" to see what we'll do, especially with things like hitting, dumping bath water, running in the road, etc. Not so much the whining. I feel like that's just her natural reaction. I've been so frustrated that I've been trying different things, and I can see how it would be better to stick to just one response, which will probably be removing myself or her from situations. She's very social, and the last thing that she wants is to not be with her sister and me.

It's good to hear the reminder not to talk too much and not to be moved by promises to be "done hitting" and crying. I spend what seems like a whole lot of time giving warnings and explaining why we don't do this or that (which makes me feel ridiculous because obviously at least a part of the "we" does hit, whine, and dump water). And then, when I finally do remove myself or her, and she cries, I feel so badly for her that I come right back and we start the cycle all over again.

Part of me knew what all of you were saying - but I just can't seem to put it into practice. She does these things because she will eventually get a big reaction, and I will eventually break down. (read, not orderly, predictable, or consistent). I am exhausted, and that makes it more difficult to react the way that I would like to react. I would like to be unmoved by the storm, but generally I am very moved and too tired to conceal my own anger, sadness, and frustration, which again makes everything worse. Do all children test limits again and again and again??

All of this also makes me think that what I might need to do is take better care of myself so that I don't feel so tired, frustrated, and angry that I'm unable to do the things that I know I ought to do...

When you think about all the ways she tests limits and then how to respond to them, I can see how it can be overwhelming! I have a 3yo who sounds much like your daughter. But, if you can be consistent in a couple of areas, you will slowly get better at it and she will quickly learn that it is better to cooperate. For example, we have certain things that are just not acceptable: If you pour water out of the tub, you exit the tub immediately. It's something where the objective is clear and the consequence is obvious. Another, you hit-you sit. hitting is not ok. If someone hits or kicks, they are reminded that it is never ok to hit, and then (in our house) you have a little sit by the wall until you're ready to come back and play nicely. Also, holding hands in parking lots...it's a rule. We will not walk until we are holding hands. When I write this out it sounds very stern and obedience driven, but really it's just a handful of things where there is a cut and dry consequence and if you can show your child in a few areas that cooperating makes it more fun for everyone, then hopefully she'll come around! I've also started praising/gushing when ds cooperates in a way that is usually hard for him. As in....See, since you got into your carseat quickly, now we have time to do X!!

My ds is also a near constant whiner/complainer. I've recently started requiring him to speak in a nice tone. I've explained that he doesn't need to CRY that he needs a piece of toast, that all he needs to do is ASK! What a novel concept. I model for him how to ask in a more regular/cheerful tone. Then he does it nicely and say something like, "Oh, of course, I would be happy to get you a piece of toast!" Then he giggles and we carry on. It's working. I have to remind him constantly that there is really no need to whine, all you have to do is ask for what you need.

[Lit Chick]

Last week I heard a little bit of an NPR story about a new book called Teach Like a Champion, and I think I'm going to check it out because the little bit I heard applied to parenting too.
My 2.5 year old has been testing lately - going from a sweet, easy kid who listened and obeyed to a whiny, tantrum throwing little boy. I know it's normal, but it threw me and DH for a loop. I've been trying the economy of language and quiet power.... and hah, they work pretty well and I only heard 10 second examples. (It's time to put your pants on. Thank you for putting your pants on. LOL)

Hang in there.

[crwilson]

What does seem like a fair consequence for hitting her little sister? I have not been consistent, I will admit, because I can't decide what's best. At first, it was a time out - you hit, you sit, but that seemed to make the problem worse, not better. Now I'm simply going in our bedroom with the baby and locking the door. It's very upsetting to dd1, and she doesn't like it, but I can't say that it seems to be having an effect one way or another.

Part of me wonders if at this point I should just be proactive. That is, dd1 hits dd2 whenever dd2 is nursing. It's no mystery that this is a jealousy response (and yes, we've tried the special toy when nursing, or reading stories together, and dd1 just does not respond). So, I've considered just going in our room and closing the door before we start nursing, since dd1 really can't seem to control herself in that situation.

But, honestly, I'm uncomfortable with locking her out of the room to begin with because it seems like I'm expecting her to misbehave and not giving her a chance. I guess I'm uncomfortable locking her out altogether, but I want to send a firm message that we don't want to be around someone who hits and hurts others. I'm not actually worried about dd1's health or safety; it just upsets her so much, and it doesn't feel very gentle to me.

I'm worried that I'm making things worse instead of better. This is probably why I'm an ineffective disciplinarian - I overthink everything and cannot make a decision about what I really should do and what would really be the best.

[crwilson]

Originally Posted by Caittune

possibly irrelevant question, but have you noticed any correlation with what she is eating and the episodes? DD is sensitive to food dyes and artificial flavors and her reactions and behavior is similar to what you describe during a reaction. Just a thought. For us, rescue remedy will sometimes help her.

She does have food allergies, but those foods aren't part of her diet, and she doesn't eat any artificial food colorings. Thank you for the suggestion, though. I haven't tried rescue remedy, but I'll give it a shot. I hadn't thought of that.

[GoBecGo]

Can you give her a choice before you nurse? Like can you say "Your baby sister needs to nurse. Shall i stay here and nurse her and read a story book with you, or shall i go into my room without you to nurse her? Because i'd really like to read a story with you, but sometimes you hit her, and if you hit her i will have to go away from you where she can be safe." and let her choose? Obviously she will initially say she wants a story then hit her sister anyway and you will have to go into your room immediately, while reminding her that you have to keep her sister safe. But maybe if you give her the choice every time, and make it her choice (because you having and now feeding her sister was NOT her choice), she may begin to respond to that and see that she can actually stay and be with Mama and have a good time, and it doesn't have to be a huge fight every time the baby nurses?

I have to admit, i'm 38weeks pregnant tomorrow, with a 4yo DD, and if she hit the baby i would FREAK OUT. I would think her lucky if i just left her alone to nurse! The reaction in me just to reading about it is so visceral! I don't smack, but i'd really really really want to if i saw her hitting my tiny baby. I'm afraid i would probably curb that to saying very severely "that is NOT acceptable, i do NOT want to be near a girl who would hit a baby" before storming out and hiding to feed the babe. I don't think that's a "good" reaction though, but it would very likely be mine. She accidentally kicked a friend's baby today and i was NOT impressed (she was having a dramatic moment which was completely uncalled for and in the midst of that kicked the baby while he was lying in his bouncer) and made it really super clear that unless she was actually on fire she needed to be WAY more mindful of him in the future.

I also think that a) these sorts of problems are SUPER common after a new baby arrives, b) you're probably really tired which makes everything harder and c) you can definitely take on advice and work out strategies AND cut yourself some slack while the baby is growing. I personally am a very calm person, but i have been yelling a LOT more recently - heavily pregnant, aches and pains, hormonal, yada yada... I am openly apologetic to DD when i'm unnecessarily harsh, and i accept that this is a short period of time when i am not going to be "perfect" every day, and that the transition when this baby arrives is probably going to be much harder than this phase initially. I guess i see my relationship with DD like my relationship with DH - there will be peaks and troughs, times when one or other of us isn't on top form. I think teaching her that i'm human is as important as anything else i might teach her. So, i guess, be gentle with yourself.