3-yr-old & Sexual Curiosity

[lobster]

Last summer, a few months before DS turned 3, we learned that when he and the neighbour girl down the street went into her backyard she had him pull down his pants so she could see his penis. Ok, no big deal - we explained to DS that his penis is just for him, that nobody is to touch it and that if his friends want him to pull his pants down he should say "no". We stayed calm, and left it at that.

Over the course of the autumn & winter, DS didn't play with the neighbour girl - she started school, and we didn't see much of her at all. There were no further "private parts" incidents with DS among any of his other friends.

Recently, DS has become very curious about all things below the waist. I was recently pregnant and very honestly answered all DS's questions about the birds & the bees. He was fascinated by the sperm & egg, and was pretty thrilled to witness the baby's birth.

Over the past couple of weeks, DS seems to have become OBSESSED with private parts. He and his sister are naked very often. They share a bath together on a regular basis. DS is telling DD on a daily basis to show him her vagina. A few days ago they were in the tub and I ran into the kitchen for a moment, only to hear DS say, "Raina, can I touch your vagina?" as soon as I was out of the bathroom. I've explained to him several times that DD's vagina is just for her, it's not for him to touch, that we never touch other people's private parts without their permission (DD always shrieks "NOO!" when DS wants to touch her or see her). I wouldn't be bothered by the bathroom incident, except that he has been poking at her and looking at her SO MUCH lately, I'm starting to feel that he's taking it beyond the realm of normal.

Then, this morning, DD was running around without pants on (she's potty training) while I was cleaning. She bent over, downward dog style, which she does often - we took a mom & tot yoga class together. Right in front of me, DS runs over and pokes his finger into DD's vagina. I told him firmly not to do that again, and when I bent over to sweep into the dustpan, he did it again - though DD wasn't bent over this time. A minute later, he ran up to her and stuck his finger in her butt. Meanwhile, I'm getting angry and starting to raise my voice about him stopping immediately, and DD is yelling "NO!" at him. I struggled with DD to get her dressed so that he couldn't touch her anymore, which she was very upset about because she loves being naked.

About half-an-hour later, I sat down to fold laundry and DS sat next to me and started grabbing at my boobs. He was weaned a year and a half ago (at 2) and has laid a hand over the top of one breast ever since as a comfort measure to replace nursing. When he's upset, he'll often say, "Mama, I want to touch," which is that comfort thing. This morning, it was NOT a comfort thing. He was grabbing at me with both hands, trying to squeeze my boobs. I told him I didn't like that at all, and please stop. So instead of stopping, he did it again, more forcefully. I had to push him away from me to get him to stop. I was incredibly bothered!!

He went outside shortly after that. The neighbour girl came to our house with a friend of hers, wanting to play with DS. They went into our backyard, and my husband went out to check on them just in time to hear DS say to the girls, "Who wants to nurse on my penis?", with his pants down. (Yesterday he was showing the neighbour girl his penis, and last week he was waving it around at the girls in our homeschool group.) My husband pulled DS into the house immediately and we gave him a very firm talking to about nobody touching his penis, not pulling his pants down, etc etc.

At this point, I'm a little sickened and worried. I feel like DS has really moved beyond normal curiosity over the past couple of weeks and he's freaking me out. I'm a laid back and relaxed person when it comes to sexuality and nudity, but I feel like the kind of behaviour I'm seeing lately is not just normal kid "exploring". It's becoming constant, and I'm really starting to feel that something is wrong.

Add to that that DS has become defiant and moody over the last two weeks as well...... my mind starts spinning.

Am I overreacting here? Is this normal stuff, or do I have cause to be concerned? I'm feeling a little lost as to how to deal with this, because clearly my approach so far has failed. HELP!!!

[ecoteat]

I don't think its sexual curiosity-- little kids don't have any concept of sexuality like adults do. Curiosity about the differences between bodies is nothing unusual. I can tell by your language that you are seeing your examples very differently than your ds does, or how I would in that situation. I wouldn't think of ds wanting to see dd's vagina while in the bathroom as an "incident." It probably wasn't intended to be anything different than him wanting to see her armpit or bellybutton until it became an issue. My daughter just turned 4 and she still wants to playfully grab my boobs sometimes. It annoys me, and I calmly tell her not to squeeze me, and I know it will pass. The only thing you describe that would really get my attention would be asking other kids to nurse on his penis. I think calmly reinfocing personal boundaries while trying not to make certain body parts taboo would be the goal, but I'm not sure exactly how I would go about doing that.

[lobster]

Originally Posted by ecoteat

I don't think its sexual curiosity-- little kids don't have any concept of sexuality like adults do. Curiosity about the differences between bodies is nothing unusual.

Thanks for your input and perspective

I should clarify that when I say "sexual curiosity" I mean in the sense that DS is exploring parts of the body that are considered sexual, not that he's approaching this sexually. I guess I should have worded it differently, but that is the wording that came to mind.

My concern about DS wanting to see DD's vagina arises because it is becoming a multiple-times-a-day kind of thing, on an every day basis, and because DD is clearly saying no to DS the majority of the time.

We've always been very open and honest about body parts around here - the kids regularly are naked, DH and I are often seen naked by the kids, and we've had very calm and level-headed discussions about reproduction (during my pregnancy, when the kids were full of questions), appropriate touch (after the very first time DS pulled his pants down for neighbour girl, and many discussions since then), etc. etc. We've used appropriate language for body parts and talked about their functions - including things like ears and fingers and noses in there right along with penis and vagina, because they're all just parts of the body.

It has only been in the last few days that I've really started to get upset about the touching and pulling pants down, and lose my cool with DS. How many times can you have the "your penis is just for you" talk before it becomes apparent that you need to take a different route?

I don't know if what he's doing recently is within the realm or normal or if I actually do have cause to be concerned, and also don't know how to handle this in a more appropriate manner (because obviously I haven't been approaching it properly).

[Heavenly]

No I do not think this is normal behaviour. Sorry, I know that's not the popular answer, but I truly do not think it's okay. I am studying to be a social worker and just did a course on child maltreatment. During that course we discussed sibling abuse. People view sibling treatment as somehow "separate" from treatment from other people but it is just as damaging to the child involved, if not more so. Your daughter is cleary saying no - NO, she does not want her body violated! He stuck his finger in her vagina?? Against her will?? And someone thinks that's okay?? If a boy at the swimming pool did that to your daughter you would be probably be freaking out and wondering if you could press charges. Because it is your son involved, her brother, does not make you any less responsible to protect your innocent baby girl. I have 3 children, and many other children in my life, and none of them have ever taken any type of sexual curiousity to the level you are describing. I personally think a visit to a child therapist to find out if he has been exposed to any sexual behaviour would be in order. I also think you should not, at any point, allow your daughter and son to be naked together. Your daughter clearly does not want this to happen and you need to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm not saying that your son has been abused but he needs to know, in no uncertain terms, that this behaviour is NOT okay.

[SaoirseC]

I think the main issue here needs to be that his sister has a right to bodily integrity. It's not really about sexuality specifically, but about respect another person's right to say "no". I think that really needs to be reinforced firmly and non-punitively. "Your sister does not want you to touch her like that," and physically remove him from the situation. Your body language needs to show him that you are a wall with no way around it, this will not happen. The "nurse my penis" thing is a bit disconcerting also. You really just need to follow your own intuition, and tread lightly because it's possible for you to cause damage by making him think that he has already been exposed to something damaging (BTDT as a child).

There are so many subtle cues that occur if a child has been exposed to something inappropriate. We really can't say one way or another simply because we don't see those subtle cues. So it may be wise to think about this for a while, and watch who he's around, it may be as simple as an older child with a potty mouth who heard something inappropriate and repeated it in front of your kiddo.

Also, it seems like he has some sort of fixation with touching other people's body parts, which happens. He doesn't need an explanation every time, and it doesn't help him if you're getting frustrated (I know, easier said than done sometimes, but it's possible that the fixation has something to do with getting a rise out of you). A simple "No, I don't like that touch" and moving his hands away- even if you have to do it again and again- should eventually get the point across. "This is my body, and I don't want you to touch it that way" and then move on to something else. But he needs to hear that, and he needs to see you protecting yourself (and your daughter) from his unwanted touches. This reinforces that he, too, has a right to bodily integrity, which is important if he ever finds himself in that sort of situation (also sets him up to respect women, which of course will be important when he's dating and/or married).

[Kailey's mom]

I would avoid all talk of body parts for a few days, keep the kids separated when either is naked, and see if this calms down. He could just be doing this for attention. My dd will use anything to get positive or negitive attention sometimes. If this keeps up at the same intensity, Yikes.. I don't know. I don't think it will. Just try not to make an issue of it, but don't give him the opportunity to make an issue of it.

[ILoveMyBabyBird]

my ds is just a couple months older than your ds, and while i have explained that girls have vaginas and boys have penises, that is about all he knows about the birds and bees, there is definitely something deeper going on with your ds than just being curious, and you need to think of the well being of you dd too. now asking to see body parts; and touching and poking them is way different. If i were you i wouldn't allow them to bath together anymore or leave your dd alone bare bottomed with your ds. Since you say she likes to be naked and is potty learning and being bare bottomed alot how do you handle the situation if ds is getting too handsy? Do you punish him or her? Him by sending him to another room maybe or do you have her put her clothes on? Making your dd get dressed may also be sending her the wrong messages, that it is her fault that her brother is touching her, kwim? Maybe you should just have her wear a long dress or a shirt with underwear for a few weeks and see how your ds's behavior is. I know this is a hard situation, but if my ds was doing this to a younger sibling or cousin i would know it is not normal and would try to prevent it as best as possible.

[seawind]

how old is the neighbor girl? a few months short of three is too young to be involved in that kind of play. whatever happened to age-appropriate knowledge...it's all very well to be open about our bodies and sexuality, but there is a time for everything, IMO. i agree with the others, this needs to be handled sensitively. meantime, i would limit playtime with the other girl.

[Dar]

Team "Not Normal". The bit about asking who wants to "nurse" on his penis was a huge red flag for me - that sounds like someone has been sucking on his penis in the past, and that's definitely not okay.

I'd have him evaluated for suspected sexual abuse and get him into some sort of counseling. Sorry, OP.

[GoBecGo]

I will admit i wasn't flagging anything until i read that a) he penetrated her vagina and anus with a finger and b) he wanted other kids to "nurse" his penis. I do not think, at 3, that an awareness of penetration is necessarily WAY out there (DD is 4 and i saw her stick a fingertip into her OWN vagina in the bath recently, i just reminded her to keep that sort of exploration for private time) but oral sex? It might be worth having him reviewed by someone who knows what they're doing (a professional i mean). It could be that another child who has suffered abuse has introduced these concepts (little girl who has "nursed" a grown-up's penis might have shown him that) rather than him being victimised by an adult, but for THAT child's sake it'd be wise to have him evaluated maybe.

And as someone who was sexually abused by her brother for 7 years, i'd like to echo what a PP said - please protect your DD. Shield her, believe her, empower her (i know you're doing these things already, i just want to stress it, it would have saved me so much pain and time processing that pain).

[wookie]

OP, it does seem like something's off. The "nurse my penis" comment...a 3 yrold is IMO not capable of extrapolating an activity associated with a particular part of the body (nursing/breasts) into another (nurse/penis) without prior exposure. He's either experienced the "nursing" or has been described it. I would limit his interactions with the neighbour girl to only 100% supervised play, limit opportunity at home (like another pp said) and start looking for a professional if this fixation continues. I hope it's a phase for your ds that'll soon pass!

[lobster]

Thank you all for your input and advice. I feel a lot more level-headed now than I did when I made the post. DS has had a LOT of behaviour changes recently that I had been chalking up to the new baby - defiance, lying to me, sassy back-talk, ignoring me, telling me he doesn't want me near him, emotional meltdowns, etc. - things that are totally not at all within his realm of normal/usual behaviour, and things that came about at the same time as the concerning "curiosity" that I originally posted about.

I have decided that I will be taking him to see a child therapist. If these behaviours DO boil down to adjusting to the new baby, as some of my friends think, at least the therapist will be able to help us navigate through it. If it turns out that this is something more concerning, we will have the help we need.

I feel very sad for my son right now. Whether the cause of all of this is minor or major, he obviously isn't feeling like himself and is not the happy go-lucky boy I've always known.

[Dar]

{{{{Lobster}}}}

[wookie]

Many hugs to you, OP. It's heartbreaking. I hope it IS the new baby and things resolve happily for you and your son.

[sunnygir1]

Hugs!

From what you posted, I think it could be normal curiosity. I don't think that poking your dd in the bathtub (or when she is bending over) is abnormal behavior at all...if it was her belly button you would still tell him to respect her "no", but you probably wouldn't be super worried. He may well be "obsessed" because of the response he gets from you, and her. I guess I would guage it on how long it goes on and how easy it is to distract him from it.

The nursing on the penis comment could have come from something he heard or saw somewhere, but also children "nurse" on all kinds of things that are nipple-shaped, some of them dangerous, like balloons. It is possible that his curiousity was heightened by your talk about his penis being only for him after showing it to the neighbor girl. He is totally developing his independence and testing boundaries. This is totally an area where you don't want to have a battle with him, so it that sense it is a total bummer.

Hang in there, mama.

[nextcommercial]

It sounds a little like sexual curiosity turned slightly obsessive. I wouldn't be terribly concerned. But, "no means no". Always.

She deserves to have privacy.

He may just be extremely curious, and then he asked questions, got more answers than he was ready for, and now he's trying to work that out. I wouldn't automatically think he's being abused by anyone. But, this predatory behaviour would really upset me. Especially since he's not respecting "NO".

Good luck with this! I hope it's a stage he moves through quickly.

[nextcommercial]

Also, the "Nurse on my penis" comment wouldn't really alarm me either. It could just be something he thought of. At three, I thought if I could just learn how, I should be able to pee out of my belly button. It made perfect sense back then.

I asked my black friend to show me his penis because I was sure it was white.... since the bottoms of his feet were white. I just wanted to prove it. Cuz, surely he was keeping it a secret. He showed me. I was wrong, and never asked him again.

[sbrinton]

We've been through something similar. Last year, after our third child was born, there was a time my then 4 year old son bit my 2 year old son's penis. We were extremely worried and put a lot of time into evaluating whether something was wrong. Had our son been exposed to something inappropriate? Had he seen us in bed? What in the world?

At first I think we overreacted, but after a while it was clear that there was not something deeply wrong. We spent a lot of time talking with our boys about boundaries and privacy. We've asked the boys lots of questions to make sure we knew everything. More than anything, we used it as an opportunity to make sure we were really walking closely with our kids.

Our oldest son does seem to be quite curious about his parts and about other's parts. I don't know why some kids are and other's aren't. Because of this, we've set limits I might not otherwise set for a child his age. For example, we go to the family (private) dressing room at the gym rather than the women's gym. Or he and his brother are not allowed to be naked together unless they are in a bath with supervision. He does not see me naked anymore. We try to give him his privacy.

When you explained the birds and the bees, did you explain that penises go in vaginas to make babies? Maybe is he trying to do this with his sister, having no concept that it is wrong?

I would really focus on his respecting other's boundaries. And use this as an opportunity to make sure you really know how your kids are doing in every area.

[karika]

Before religion colored the view of sexuality (and even if a person is not religious, it has permeated the culture), children engaged in behaviors that you describe with other children. It was not judged or thought of as a concern. It is the equivalent of little boys using sticks and pretending to hunt. They are learning about their bodies and practicing for what will happen in adulthood. In indigenous cultures these behaviors still exist. In fact, sexual behaviors are present around the children as loving acts between parents and other adults, not hidden and acted with shame about. I know we do not live in those cultures however. I believe a return to the view of sex as a fun thing that is okay to have and do will help heal the world in many ways. In my opinion if shame and telling people not to do what they wish with other people from their peer group were removed, there would be far less hangups and acts of aggression amongst people (think bonobo apes, the most peaceful of the primates). Now in your specific case, I would have a hard time knowing what to do, that is for sure. Touching his sister this way would be a problem for me too. I guess I would explain that people that are related by blood do not touch each other like that, that the relationship between family is not a romantic thing and only people that are romantic touch each other that way. Also stress that people have the right to say no about their own bodies and he is to respect that as an answer when it is given. If he just wants to see more about the female anatomy, maybe a book about it? And the incident with the little girls would make me uncomfortable too, as it did you and your husband. Maybe you could explain that it makes you uncomfortable, that it is okay to feel this way, but that you would like for him to wait until he is older to act on this and in a private setting. I know how I feel about this in my head, but when it comes to a real life situation, it is hard to be true to that. I just wanted to offer the indigenous culture/ cave person view on children discovering their sexuality.

[lobster]

Originally Posted by sbrinton

When you explained the birds and the bees, did you explain that penises go in vaginas to make babies? Maybe is he trying to do this with his sister, having no concept that it is wrong?

He asked me how babies were made, so I explained that mamas have eggs and daddies have sperm, and that when an egg and sperm join together they grow a baby. He didn't ask HOW the egg and sperm get together, so I didn't tell him. I tend to only give as much info as he has asked for, and didn't enlighten him about sex.

Sbrinton, thank you for your entire reply - your experiences and response to such has given me some good food for thought and I'm glad you shared.

Karika, thank you also for your input - definitely a lot to consider and think about.



We are still navigating our way through this. My son has backed off significantly since my original post, and has only a few times mentioned wanting to see his sister's vagina (a far cry from talking about it every day!). I'm able to respond now without emotional overreaction (thanks mamas!), and I think the consistent response he gets from me is helping.

However! We did have an incident on Wednesday at our homeschool group, in which DS pulled down his pants in the playroom with a bunch of girls, and told them that "babies nurse on penises". He also told one of the girls that he was going to pee on her, and then peed all over the back porch. SIGH. I have been very diligent in not letting him out of my sight, but on that particular day I was trying to get my baby and toddler ready to leave before trying to get DS out the door, so he was unattended for ten to fifteen minutes, during which we had the incident. A couple of the girls were upset and ran to tell their mothers.

In the car afterwards, we talked about why his behaviour was inappropriate, and that he had upset some of his friends. However, I have a hard time explaining why it's ok to run around naked in the sprinkler on a hot day, but not ok to pull out one's penis in a room full of girls.

FWIW, my DS has decided that he does not want to go back to homeschool group. He made this decision before the incident occurred, and told the "teacher" that he wasn't coming back, before she was even able to start opening circle.