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Doula missed the birth contract question - WWYD - Page 2

post #21 of 31
She knows you have a history of fast labor(s) and you called her at 9 am saying "we are in labor". No brainer as far as I am concerned; she needs to refund 50% of your fee.
post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
She knows you have a history of fast labor(s) and you called her at 9 am saying "we are in labor". No brainer as far as I am concerned; she needs to refund 50% of your fee.
but she did not ask the doula to come until 2 hours later and baby was born very shortly after that. I would say it is a no brainer if they had asked the doula to come over with the first call and doula still didn't arrive for another 2.5 hours, but it wouldn't be right to crash a labor party that one has not been invited to yet.

I always ask if clients want me there yet or not and if they say no, then I sit tight and wait for their next call. I will still need a few minutes to get to them once they say that they do want me.

It is just a bummer of a situation.
post #23 of 31
I agree with Erika. If you called at 9 to just let her know you're in labour, that's not her call. Her call was at 11:15ish. Birth, I gather was around 11.45? So, it took her about 30 min to travel, right? That seems completely normal to me. It seems just bad luck that she missed your birth, but nobody's fault. I'd say she still deserves the whole amount. Or if she offered minus 1/5, that seems fine to me. I hope in the end you will all find a solution and be happy, your husband included - which seems to be the main issue here.
Enjoy your new babe!
Nina
post #24 of 31
Congrats on your new baby! I'm glad to hear it went well and that he is healthy.

I think I'm with Nina on this one. If you knew that you have fast labors, you should have had her join you at the 9am call. By waiting those two hours and fifteen minutes to call and tell her to come, you set yourself up for her missing your birth.

I'm sorry she missed you birth, and I'm sure she is disappointed, too. All in all, however, I think she honored her contract.

I hope you all can work it out amicably. I don't think you should bad mouth her or refuse to give her a good reference.
post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina Rinkes View Post
If you called at 9 to just let her know you're in labour, that's not her call. Her call was at 11:15ish. Birth, I gather was around 11.45? So, it took her about 30 min to travel, right? That seems completely normal to me. It seems just bad luck that she missed your birth, but nobody's fault.
Hmm, I almost agree with this, but that's not at all what the contract says (at least from what we're told). If the contract actually says "half of our money back if she is not contacted or she misses due to unforeseen circumstances" then she owes you half the money. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

I think no one is arguing that she should abide by the first clause "we get all of our money back if she misses the birth and it's her fault", right? Then there is no need to assign fault. And perhaps she should re-do her contract if she's not intending to abide by it the way it is. Since she's the one who gets to write it, she can change it so that she considers it to be fair.
post #26 of 31
Yeah I'm feeling a little confused by this. The head's up, "I'm in labor" call was very nice. It's a lot easier to rearrange your day when you have one of those, and as a doula, I appreciate it. But I'm confused by the 'two and a half hours' notice. If you called your doula at 11:15 and asked her to come, then I would expect her to be there by 12:15 under your circumstances (small town, easy drive, etc). While nice, It doesn't matter if you gave her a heads up beforehand, you can't start the clock before you've actually said yes I want you to come. However, I would say from the time you said 'come' to the time she gets there, one hour is reasonable, even if she did say 30 minutes, that's faster than most doulas I've talked with.

Now... either way, 50% of the money back still puts the blame "on you" (as opposed to her I mean, for not getting there soon enough). So for arguments sake, we'll assume that you called her at 11:15 and said "Ok, I want you come now", she got there within an hour, but it was still too late for the birth. Not her fault. But even with it not being her fault, from what you're saying, her contract very clearly states under those circumstances that you should receive 50% refund. You're essentially saying, "This was our mistake, we should have called you earlier, so we're taking the hit", since the alternative (her not getting there in time by her own mistake) would have her refunding the whole amount.

That really should be the end of it. You signed a contact with her that stated two options for a missed birth- 50% refund, or 100% refund. That was her choice to include those options in the contract, and you both signed it. End of story. I've seen several doulas that state in their contract that if they miss the birth due to no fault of their own, that they owe you no refund, but this doesn't seem to be what her contract says, and since it is a legal binding document, she has no grounds to go back on it. Period. The only question is whether the missed birth was 'your' or 'her' fault, but either way, you and DH should receive at least 50% of your fee back.

I would definately sit down with her, or if you're not comfortable, send her an email, and show/send a copy of the contract with the relevant part highlighted, and just say "Hey, I'm a little confused here, DH and I are willing to admit (if you are) that we should have called you sooner, so I know that's our fault, but the contract here says that if that happens, we still get 50% back. Can you tell me why that's not happening?" And it sounds harsh, but if you need to, then remind her that as a self employed/small business owner (how it is here in canada anyways with a doula business), she is legally obligated to stand by the contract she signed with you. You legally have every right to take her to court over it (though I'm sure it won't go to that obviously, a signed contract really isn't something to be taken lightly)
post #27 of 31
You guys are arguing whether it's her fault she missed the birth or not, as I understand it that's not the issue. According to the contract, the client is due a refund regardless of the reason she misses the birth. The issue is that the contract says the client gets half back if she misses due to unforeseen circumstances (like not enough notice), and the doula is only offering 1/5.

What is her rationale? Does she consider being there before the placenta delivers in time for the birth (which is a legitimate argument; second stage does not end until the placenta is delivered, technically the birth wasn't over).
post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post
You guys are arguing whether it's her fault she missed the birth or not, as I understand it that's not the issue. According to the contract, the client is due a refund regardless of the reason she misses the birth. The issue is that the contract says the client gets half back if she misses due to unforeseen circumstances (like not enough notice), and the doula is only offering 1/5.
Exactly. Regardless of any of the other circumstances, she owes them at least 50% of the fee. Or 100% if she was not there through fault of her own (ie they called with enough time, and she didn't get there.)
post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post
You guys are arguing whether it's her fault she missed the birth or not, as I understand it that's not the issue. According to the contract, the client is due a refund regardless of the reason she misses the birth. The issue is that the contract says the client gets half back if she misses due to unforeseen circumstances (like not enough notice), and the doula is only offering 1/5.

What is her rationale? Does she consider being there before the placenta delivers in time for the birth (which is a legitimate argument; second stage does not end until the placenta is delivered, technically the birth wasn't over).
You are right, I misread the original post and thought it said the doula would give a 50% discount if she missed and it was her fault.

I can see the reasoning to showing up prior to the birth of the placenta and considering it still making it to the birth. In one state where I lived, the birth place was considered to be wherever the placenta was born, so if you transfered for a retained placenta, it was not technically considered a homebirth.
post #30 of 31
Yeah, from the details provided, I think the contract is fairly clear on that point and the refund amount should be set at 50%.
post #31 of 31
This is kind of an old thread now. What was the outcome IA?

It seems like she owes you half back. I, personally, wouldn't consider arriving after the baby was born but not the placenta to be arriving in time for the birth. A MW does a whole lot more than a doula from that point on, so I could see Ms Black's point, though. But her arrival time has to be judged from the point you asked her to come.

It made me go look at how clearly my contract was worded! lol

My contract states that I want you to call me as soon as you think you are in labor and we'll decide if it's time for me to come then or to wait. It also says that I need approx 1 1/2 hours to get to you from the time that you ask me to come. (that changes depending on where I live at the time)

If I (or back up) miss the labor due to circumstances beyond anyone's control (fast labor,etc) or your failure to call me. I keep the retainer fee, but refund the rest. If it's my fault you get it all back.

When I speak with them, I make it clear that my fault means something like- I forget to turn on my phone, or I decide to go to a concert (which doesn't happen typically when you're serious about your work, right!?)

So it's pretty clear how it's going to work. I have had some clients tell me they didn't want me to come yet when I thought that I should, but there isn't much you can do about that. In some of those circumstances, they regretted waiting so long to ask me to come. There was one who told me that she used calling me and and my arrival as the time when she was going to ask for her epi (which she didn't want) so they ended up waiting so long that by the time I got there she was pushing. I think she was happy with that circumstance. So you can never tell what people's motivations are. I just stress to people that this is what they hired me for and that I am ready to head over right then if they want me there, it's okay if it's late, early, etc. But you can't force yourself on someone!

On a side note, MrsJewels- Unless your doula let you know that it was going to take 2 1/2 hrs to get you or that she wouldn't be available during certain times before you hired her, I think that was pretty unprofessional.
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