Thougts on adopting two children

[sbrinton]

My husband and I are getting ready to start our paperwork to adopt from Rwanda. One of the decisions we are still figuring out is whether we'll adopt one or two girls - and if we adopt two, what ages.

We have three biological sons who are currently 18 months, 3 and 5.5. We always thought we'd have four kids, but as we've learned and prayed about adopting - especially adopting a little girl from Africa - we've felt strongly that it could be a very good thing to adopt two girls, either at the same time or eventually.

The way Rwanda works, we can adopt siblings or unrelated children. There are many children who are orphaned and relatively few adoptions. The Rwanda government prefers the adopted child is at least one year apart from any other child in the family, but has been flexible with this requirement.

It would probably be about a year until we received a referal. At that time our bio sons would be 2.5, 4 and 6.5. So we could ask for two girls who were both infants, one infant and one toddler, or one infant and one 5 year old. If the government is more flexible on ages, I would be open to a 3 year old who would be in between our younger sons.

Any thoughts? Things we should consider? What are the potential upsides and downsides of each of these? To clarify, the four options are: 6 m + 6 m, 6 m + 18 m (both girls younger than our bio sons), 6 m + 3 yr (between our younger sons) or 6 m + 5 yr (between our older sons).

I'm really open to any of these and recognize that each has it's own challenges. I am really not sure what I would prefer. I am leaning towards either two infants or an infant and a 3 year old. With a 3 year old, we would still have a few years before she was school age. I am guessing if we adopted a 5 year old, she wouldn't be ready for kindergarten and would then end up in her younger brother's class the following year.

It's all so crazy to try to figure it out hypothetically. And a huge leap of faith...but we're trying to be wise in figuring out what is best for our family.

[RedOakMomma]

Having watched public (news-story) and private (chat group) disruptions, along with all the regular struggles of attachment and really difficult situations involved in the months after bringing children home, I have very strong opinions on this. It also comes from a lot of reading and advice from three (very respected) social workers, and our adoption courses we had to take...so it's not all just personal bias.

I think adopting two children at once, unless you have to (siblings), is a very bad idea. There are always exceptions, let me put that out there, but in general it is NOT a good idea.

You have very young bio kids, and you're talking about adding two more. That is A LOT.

I know there is a feeling, when adopting, that if you have the green light to adopt you should put aside all worries and just grab for the kids you can have, but through all of this please try thinking of what's best for each individual adopted child. I think it's important to do what's best for the baby/child you're bringing home at a time when she'll probably be going through one of the most difficult experiences of her life...not what's best for her eventually, not what's best for your family financially/timing-wise.

Yes, it will be beneficial for your adopted child to have a sibling who is adopted and from the same culture.

BUT....

...it is probably not beneficial to be a newly adopted child, in a house of young (needier) children, AND have a very needy new adopted sibling.

...its is probably not beneficial to be a newly adopted child and have parents who also have another newly adopted child. (Age differentials, I believe, matter little. Children, no matter the age, very often come into families needing A LOT of support, help, and work...and that can go way beyond what you've ever experienced with your bio children. Trust me. I had two severe special needs bio twins, and they were STILL an "easier" parenting experience than adopting our one, completely healthy, 9 month old daughter.)

...multiply that times 2, because the negative effects will be felt by each child you adopt.

...and don't forget your bio kids. Think of how little they'll get when you have two new, needy, potentially very needy children. I have a 2.5 year old, a 4 year old, and a (disabled) 8 year old at home now, and I CANNOT IMAGINE adding two adopted children to the family right now...my youngest ones (2.5/4) especially would suffer, and not just for a little while. Dd had over a 12-month adjustment process, and two years down the road we're still working on some issues of attachment. It was heartbreaking to see the negative effects on her two older brothers and our family as we exhausted ourselves emotionally to deal with/help/bond with our dd during that first year. It was hard on them, hard on our family, and hard on our marriage.

When you bring a child home, you need to focus on that one child in a way that can be very overwhelming, and completely outside your experience as a mother to biological children. Having three slightly older bio children, and dealing with the needs of an adopted baby, is already a very heavy task. And I don't mean "you're a supermom, and anyone can get through anything for 6 months" kind of heavy task. It may very well be more than your family, your children, and yourself can handle. I consider myself a pretty experienced, weathered mom, and I was blown away--and very humbled--by the experience of adopting a child.

My advice would be to adopt one child at a time. Bring that child home, have her be your exclusive focus (baby wearing, bottle nursing, tons of one-on-one time) and experience the joys of that ONE child. You know how important attachment is, and how precious it is to give that gift to our children. Wait until she's secure, happy, attached, and has had her time as the baby of the family. THEN pursue adoption of another child. I've seen too many sad situations develop when parents were overstretched...no matter how much better it is for the parents to adopt two at once, it can't be good for the child to have parents that are stressed out and can't focus on the needs of every child.

If you didn't have any children already, I'd still have big, big reservations about adding two adopted children at once. I've seen childless couples try to adopt insta-families, and even with the full emotional reserves of one parent per child they were still overwhelmed by the task. Seeing that you're already a family of five, AND your children are still all very young, the idea of adopting two children at once gets a huge, resounding NO. I'm sorry. I know that's probably not what your heart wants to hear or acknowledge.

Has your social worker ever discussed this with you? What about books, articles, and classes? In our experience, this was talked about extensively.

[pumpkingirl71]

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma

I think adopting two children at once, unless you have to (siblings), is a very bad idea. There are always exceptions, let me put that out there, but in general it is NOT a good idea.

I agree with this, and want to add that adopting out of birth order is almost always bad. I think when we adopt, we feel ready to conquer the world. I did, and I adopted out of birth order. My situation was different, as it was a kinship adoption. I don't regret the decision to adopt out of birth order, but given how hard it has been, I don't recommend it if you have a choice. I would suggest that if you feel strongly about adopting two children at once, wait. Then you will be in a better place to adopt a sibling group without disrupting birth order.

[Sierra]

I'm a believer in the value of sibling adoption, though as a general rule, I wouldn't recommend it to folks with other kids already in the home.

Having said that, based on my own experiences, I can't recommend adopting two girls at one time. That is not to say that someday you couldn't go back and adopt again, but I think its important to make sure to take a lot of time between adoptions 1 and 2. I would second RedOakMomma's concerns, in their entirety, and underscore what she said about how much each child deserves to be focused on during the early years of the adoption.

Think of parenting a baby, all the focused attention it requires, and then apply that same type of experience and need level to, say, a grieving six month old, or 12 month old, or five year old. They need and deserve at least a couple of years.

What I will add, since it has been so well-said already, is my story. I have two children who we adopted not at one time, but in a relatively short time frame. ds was a newborn when he arrived with us (adoption finalized at 13 months) and dd arrived with us at six months old when ds was just 17 months old (her adoption was finalized at three years). dd arrived grieving in a major way, and struggling with attachment issues (yes, even though she was "just" six months old). She needed all of us-- all we had to give-- but we didn't have it all to give.

I will say that she bonded much more quickly to ds than to us, and that was good, but she also would have been able to attach to us more quickly and with much less heartache had it just been us. (Note: we were not novices in working through attachment issues...we had been therapeutic foster parents prior to doing foster-adoption). We have been through a lot with dd just in the nearly-four years since her arrival. Just as one example, we have done intensive therapy together, requiring us to drive an hour and a half for a specialized therapist with whom we all clicked and engaging in therapy two hours at a time...not to mention daily in-home therapeutic time. Part of that is to make up for the lack of focused attention we offer to dd the rest of the time. This isn't something for which a little parent-kid "date"/special day together will be sufficient. By focused, I mean 100% intensive focus including a big stream of verbal feedback that is utterly exhausting and is nothing close to what people do in a natural setting.

You don't know until your kids arrive and you have a little time together what state they will arrive in and what their needs will be when they arrive. It generally isn't fair to them to not be able to have you in as full a capacity as possible.

[Tigeresse]

I agree with what the others have said, and would advise the "eventually" option wrt adopting 2 girls, unless you are adopting twins. In your case, with 3 little ones already, I would not even advise that. But! That is only based on my own experience.

I had the same thoughts as you when we adopted our dd...we have 3 bio sons and adopted our dd from China. Although you cannot adopt more than one child from China at a time unless they are twins, I thought it would be beneficial for her in the long run to have a sister from the same background (dh was never quite on board w/this, it was just my thought process). Within a few months of dd being home, I knew our family was complete. She required vast amounts of my maternal energy for several years...and my boys were all quite a bit older than yours...I can't imagine what it would be like to have 2 newly adopted LO's in that situation.

DD is now almost 7 and is truly amazing. She delights in her 3 older brothers and is comfortable and confident. She still is very energetic but channels it in ways that a way easier for me to deal with now that she is older. She has 2 very close friends who are also adopted from China, so I hope over time the friendship with these girls will provide the connection to others like herself that a sister from China may have provided. In short, I don't think adopting 2 from the same background is necessary for the long term emotional well-being of these kids, but having a focused parent is.

Not to say you can't do it though! Lots of people have way more energy than I do, and only you know if you can take a challenge like this on. I know someone in our online adoption group has has adopted 3 or 4 kids from China incl some w/SN, a sib group from Haiti, and has several bio kids as well. Not something I could do, but that family is not mine. If you feel confident and ready to do this, I would advise the 2-infants or infant and toddler. I think it is important to keep that birth order.

Good luck!

[zombie]

I have 2 siblings I adopted (both 3) and 2 sisters (5 months and 20 months) that I am currently fostering. The difference between what I was able to do for my first child and what I am able to do for the foster baby is pretty huge. I feel like I could do an excellent job with either of my FDs, but am only doing a fairly good job with both of them because there are so many kids. They both turned out to have special needs, and it really takes a lot of time and energy for all the doctor visits and therapy appointments, plus the extra work with each child. I would really recommend that you just take one child at a time. You don't know what issues they will have, and you need to be in a place where you can deal with elevated needs. It is heartbreaking to not meet your own standards for taking care of children you love.

[RedOakMomma]

Originally Posted by zombie

It is heartbreaking to not meet your own standards for taking care of children you love.

This.

[Smithie]

I am a huge fan of sibling adoption as a long-term benefit for kids in care - but my dh and I have crossed that option off our list. We are only adopting one child, because we don't think we have enough to give 2x to the needs of an adopted child.

That said, if I were offered a sibling group from Rwanda, I'd probably take the chance. The child that we adopt domestically, from the foster care system, will very possibly have a chance to maintain relationships with any bio-half-siblings adopted by other families if the other families are willing. At the very least, they'll be able to seek them out in adulthood. With an international adoption, taking an infant away from their bio full sibling is likely to be a permanent break, and if it were presented to me in that light I think I'd decide not to let that happen.

It's a tough choice, for sure. It's a risk either way.

[tiffani]

Oh, so you all think I'm CRAZY?!?!?!?



We are adopting two unrelated kids at one time, they are almost 1 and on the elder side of 3. My kids are 8 and 10. We began this process when they were 4 and 6, and we were going to adopt young sibs, and I can't even begin to tell you how glad I am that it has taken this long, just because it has given my older kids a chance to get older, which will be huge when these kids come into our family. I know that it will be a little crazy at times, and I'm really hoping that we have everything our kids need, or can figure it out without a lot of heartache for anyone, but I know there will be times we fail. Overall, though, I feel that the fact that these won't be our first kids, but they are significantly younger than our bio kids and have a bit of an age gap between them as well ...that we will all be ok.

In regard to your situation, Rwanda's program will still be there if you bring home one little girl now and wait to bring home the second one. It is not an expensive program, doesn't require a huge amount of travel, and while the wait will grow over the next few years, I think they are committed to finding families for their orphans, and you aren't likely to encounter problems adopting a second time if you wait. There aren't many sibling groups available (maybe not any aside from twins?) and from what I have seen, you don't always have a huge amount of control over who you are referred, so you might not be able to slot the ages in as specifically as you would like to. I haven't been following Rwanda for a few months now, but when I was, the referrals were not always matching the requests all that closely. Of course everyone was overjoyed with their children, but I seem to remember a few that were a little bit puzzling.

I think adopting two children at the same time can work beautifully, in a small handful of situations. But I would agree that your kids are pretty little to add two kids to the mix at one time, especially children who will certainly need a lot of help adjusting.

[sbrinton]

I hear you all, but to look at the situation as it truly is, no child is better off in an orphanage than in a family. I understand the argument against artificial twinning when you're talking about easily adoptable healthy infants in the US. But to say that it is better for a child to stay in an orphanage where they will have basically no one and nothing than to be in a family makes no sense.

We have to be wise and not take on more than we can handle. I think my perspective is like Tiffani's. I know it would be hard and I know we will struggle and fail in some ways.

But seriously, how is it in a child's best interest to stay in an orphanage? Fairly good is better than no parents. Really.

[tiffani]

Originally Posted by sbrinton

But seriously, how is it in a child's best interest to stay in an orphanage? Fairly good is better than no parents. Really.

I totally agree with you, and that is a huge reason why I have always insisted that we'd bring home two kids at the same time. I knew that once I was there, bringing my one child home... with a perfectly good empty hip right there on the other side of my body! that I would regret not adopting two at once.

I know it's terribly naive, and almost borders on a "love conquers all" mentality, but I just know that we'll all be fine. I'm not sure that my bio son would have been 100% fine if we had adopted two kids earlier, BUT he also has wanted to be a big brother SO BADLY for so long, and LOVES little ones... it would have been hard for him at times, but also really good for him in a lot of ways.
As for the kids in the orphanage, you do have to remember that this transition can be really, really hard on them, scary, emotionally upheaving, and most kids have at least a few months where it's really hard on them. So yes, for THAT kid, it might be best to be brought home by themselves. Those kids, though, who are like that, and have a rough transition, also benefit greatly from having a sibling brought home at the same time, so while you do lose a bit in one area, you gain in others.
I don't think you can make a blanket statement, you just have to really honestly look at your kids, your relationship with your partner, your family dynamics, and HONESTLY assess what will work and what won't. Envision worst case scenarios involving referrals for two kids of all different ages, because you might not end up with specific ages you request, necessarily. Envision how you will handle night terror situations, medical needs, etc, with so many really young kids at home.
Only you know what is best for your family, but don't get too fixated on a certain plan without considering all your options.

and , it's hard to figure all of this out...

[RedOakMomma]

Originally Posted by sbrinton

We have to be wise and not take on more than we can handle. I think my perspective is like Tiffani's. I know it would be hard and I know we will struggle and fail in some ways.

But seriously, how is it in a child's best interest to stay in an orphanage? Fairly good is better than no parents. Really.

With all due respect, neither you or Tiffani have adopted. You're both looking at this through very rose-colored glasses. Bless you both and good luck to you, but you don't know how this is going to go.

If your logic is that it's better for children to have families, so you should adopt two rather than one, then why stop there? As a thought experiment, why not adopt three, or four, or five? You know, somewhere, that it is irresponsible to adopt more children than you can handle. I think what the ladies on this board are trying to say, and nicely, is that TWO is probably more than you can handle.

And really, take a look at it from the adoptee's experience. When she gets the short end of the stick because her parents are overburdened, or when her special needs don't get the early attention they need and blossom into something that is truly difficult for her to overcome, is she going to get older and say "well, yes I suffered, but it's better that I had SOME family, and didn't live in an orphanage, rather than ALL the family I needed?" I don't think so. Each child deserves a good life, a focused attentive parent, and all the nurturing they need to heal the wounds they've experienced. They shouldn't have to feel grateful for what they got, rather than what they deserved, all in the name of saving more children.

It's not your job to save as many children as you can from life in an orphanage. More importantly, the child isn't responsible for saving as many children as she can from a life in an orphanage--she shouldn't have to sacrifice what's best for her. She has no choice in the matter--but you do. All you can do is do your best for each of your children as they come. If you truly want the best for your future child, REALLY, then the posts above give multiple reasons why adopting one at a time is in that child's best interest. I fail to see any convincing reasons why adopting two young children at a time, and adding them to a family of young children is in each child's best interest. "It's better than a life in an orphanage" is NOT a good reason.

It sounds like you could pretty easily adopt a second child in a few years. Why the rush to bring two home at once?

[Diane B]

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma

With all due respect, neither you or Tiffani have adopted. You're both looking at this through very rose-colored glasses. Bless you both and good luck to you, but you don't know how this is going to go.

Thank you, ROM. Your entire post said pretty much what I was thinking. The OP asked for opinions, and received, I think, some very thoughtful advice and honest feedback from those who have been there/done that.

We only have one child; we knew from the start that as older parents, this was what we could handle. As it turns out, it was an excellent decision. Our daughter ended up having about 2 years of serious behavior/attachment issues and I honestly don't know how we would have handled more kids without someone getting the short end of things. I suppose we would have muddled through somehow, but I'm grateful we didn't have to.

Family size is a highly personal decision, but I think it's important not to underestimate the extra care and attention that many internationally adopted children require, particularly those that have been in orphanage care. Everyone thinks that their child will be different or unaffected, and it's true that children vary in the emotional scars they carry from the experience. But I would argue that very few internationally adopted children are completely unaffected by their experience, especially the older they are when they come to you.

[sbrinton]

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma

You know, somewhere, that it is irresponsible to adopt more children than you can handle. I think what the ladies on this board are trying to say, and nicely, is that TWO is probably more than you can handle.

I am feeling frustrated by the direction this discussion has taken. Several of you, without knowing our family at all, have formed the opinion that two children is more than we can handle. I feel like you are judging either us specifically - families like us who chose to biologically or through adoption have larger families. To say that a child would get the "short end of the stick" in our home is really not fair.

When I asked the question in the original post, I was hoping to get a deeper understanding of the challenges we would face adopting children of different ages. We are trying to go into this with our eyes wide open.

But I am not looking for you all to judge our family.

For what it's worth, I feel like our family could do a good enough job parenting two adopted girls. I am not a perfect mom, but I am a good parent. I would say the same thing about my husband. We have sufficient resources and excellent support from our extended family, neighbors and church community. While we are busy, we are not over extended. And we fully recognize that we will need to pull back further, especially if we adopt more than one child, focusing very clearly on all of our kids needs. For us, pulling back on hobbies, volunteer work or older children's activities is a sacrifice that is worth making. We really believe that the little girls we would bring home are worth it.

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma

It sounds like you could pretty easily adopt a second child in a few years. Why the rush to bring two home at once?

This is something we are considering. The rush I feel is not a burning desire to have five children next year. The rush I do feel is "why make the child wait"...

[tiffani]

I agree completely with everything you've said as well ROM, and I know we're going into this with a certain amount of unbridled optimism -- isn't that somewhat essential to adoption though? Or having kids at all?

I am in full agreement that in the OP's situation, one child is a much smarter decision than two. But you also can't really understand what it's like to walk into that orphanage in Rwanda, knowing that you *could* be bringing home one more of those kids. I've only read several accounts of what it's like there, but I know that even my husband, who initially balked at the idea of two at once, has said "maybe we could handle three more..." I am in full agreement that the two kids we are bringing home will require a mountain of work, but there they are, our two kids, ready for a family, and we're ready for them.

OP, I think that with the surge in applications for Rwandan adoption, since you're wanting to adopt very young children, any kids in that age range will find families, you don't need to worry about that. If you decide to open your age range a little wider, and take an older child and a baby, do understand that you will likely not have a lot of control over the age of your older child -- you will have NO IDEA what school year they will be in, because you don't know how their developmental delays will affect them. You won't know if they will be violent towards your younger children (and you) and having that many younger children will possibly require line-of-sight supervision for years.

I agree with ROM, you can easily go back to Rwanda a couple of years after your first adoption, I don't think there is a real rush in your situation. There are quite a few people wanting to adopt from there now, and all the young kids who are there now are actually pretty likely to find families, in my humble opinion... I know how hard independent african adoption is, and I understand the urge to want to just do it already, but it is so much easier the second time around, don't feel like you'll be going through the same process all over again.

's mama, I know how hard it is when your heart and your brain are pulling you in two different directions... one thing you might want to consider is the fact that this adoption is a life-long change that your family will go through, and bringing home one young child at a time into your already busy home will very likely make the experience better for everyone, leading to greater family harmony for the rest of their lives. If the journey begins with a WHOLE LOT of stress and resentment, they may never really recover as siblings. I know that sometimes it goes really smoothly, but most of the time the first year is HARD work, even if people don't always admit it.

Here is a blog post I just read that reminded me of this conversation we're having...

lots to think about!

[tiffani]

cross posted with you, sbrinton. I don't think anyone is judging you, just reflecting on the realities of parenting newly adopted kids.

[RedOakMomma]

Originally Posted by sbrinton

This is something we are considering. The rush I feel is not a burning desire to have five children next year. The rush I do feel is "why make the child wait"...

I think you're looking at this emotionally rather than logically, which is understandable given what tiffani described (and what all of us, in orphanages, have felt...trust me.)

Why make the child wait? For ALL the reasons and experiences listed above. You make the one child "wait" so that the child you DO bring home has the best start possible. The most resources possible. The most healing and bonding possible. You want to save/adopt two children out of a life in the orphanage. Why not do it over a few years, making the life of each child as happy and as stable as possible? Won't the end result be the same? Two children in your family, and not in an orphanage. The children that are there now need families, true, but so will the children that are there three years down the road.

You can't swoop in and save them all. Saving two, and having it be a stretch for your family, puts more than the two children at risk for problems. It puts your marriage at risk. It puts your current children at risk. No one is judging you for wanting a big family (Dd would have been our fourth child had ds2 not died in the adoption process). We're just more knowledgeable about what it's actually LIKE to bring a child home and how it affects a family. If we're saying your family is lesser for suspecting two would be too many, then we're also saying ALL our families are lesser because it would have been too many for us, too. This is not a put-down. It's a reality check that is harshing on your emotional pull to adopt/save more children.

Just because a country allows multiple concurrent adoptions of non-siblings doesn't mean it's a good idea. Most of the more established, reputable international programs do NOT allow it, because time and research has shown that it's not good for the kids. Taking adoption one child at a time IS BEST FOR CHILDREN. If your passion and emotional interest is in bringing children out of orphanages and into your family, then do it over time. There will always be children in orphanages. You don't have to adopt two of the children that are in orphanages in 2010. There will be just as much need in 2012.

[tiffani]

Are you familiar with this family's blog? brought home two little boys from Rwanda at the same time, with two other young (but older than yours) kids already at home. I doubt she would regret doing it, as she obviously loves her sons very much, but I would suggest reading through her blog and contacting her for a little chat, and see what a been-there-done-that mama would suggest.

[Sierra]

Why make the child wait?

I do think it is important to distinguish that the child you would be leaving now is not the same child you would be adopting a few years down the line. The programs will match those children waiting now with families also waiting.

In the end, you bring two children home either way. Two children won't have to wait because you will be waiting for them. There is no difference, except in the focus you can offer each child in their early years with you.

[Diane B]

Originally Posted by sbrinton

I am feeling frustrated by the direction this discussion has taken. Several of you, without knowing our family at all, have formed the opinion that two children is more than we can handle. I feel like you are judging either us specifically - families like us who chose to biologically or through adoption have larger families. To say that a child would get the "short end of the stick" in our home is really not fair.

When I asked the question in the original post, I was hoping to get a deeper understanding of the challenges we would face adopting children of different ages. We are trying to go into this with our eyes wide open.

But I am not looking for you all to judge our family.

I'm sorry you feel judged. That was not my intent. I was sharing that, for OUR family, with OUR daughter's issues that came up around her adoption, having additional young children would have been really difficult, and would result in our having to short-change one of them. I am not suggesting that you are short-changing any of your biological children, nor that you would necessarily short-change an adopted child or children.

I do think it's important for people considering international adoption to hear some the stories of those who have gone before, and to understand how difficult and draining it can be to deal with attachment issues. I have no doubt - absolutely no doubt - that there are parents out there with more energy, ability and strength than us. It's really hard to admit how pushed to our absolute limit we felt for those couple of years and how much like a failure I felt as a mom. But I'm sharing this bit of our story in the hope that it can be helpful to others. And I am saying that I cannot imagine having gone through that experience with two or more young children to care for. Perhaps there are other families who could have functioned just fine - I'm not saying there aren't. And not all children go through what our daughter went through either. But I think it is so important to absolutely not underestimate the special needs of many internationally adopted children, especially their challenges with attachment, trauma and loss.