Something has got to give...going insane and my marriage is hanging on barely. - Page 2

[Louisep]

Hugs. I had only one high needs baby who would only nap on me and sleep in the crook of my arm. You are an amazing mother to be gently parenting two high needs babies.

Baby slings were a lifesaver for me from about 5 months. Does the twin who doesn't like the stroller like to be carried? My DS didn't until about 5 months. A pacifier also gave me some reprieve.

For naps, very gradually I was able to transfer DS from the sling onto the bed and lie next to him. If your other twin continues to sleep in the stroller, maybe this would work?

Time has been the real key to us. Once he became mobile, he became happier. At 9.5 months he started to go to sleep without any sling/rocking/bouncing. By 14 months he started sleeping really well.

I think if you and your husband could get some rest, you will feel SO much better. Besides getting someone in to help, can you do alternate nights looking after the twins, or at least block off 3-4 hours where one of you can sleep? We had a situation where I would do the nighttime parenting and DH would take DS every morning for as long as possible to allow me to get some extra sleep and it made so much difference. Take a look at how you can give each other a break and extra sleep.

[BeantownBaby9]

I am so incredibly sorry that you are going through this. We had a very high needs baby that woke up and nursed every 45min throughout the night. It pushed our marriage to the brink so I can understand what this is doing to you, but I cannot fathom doing it with two. The other mommas have great suggestions and I agree with the BFing, with the D-MER, you are putting negative, stressful energy out there, that cannot be calming for your twins, and may be contributing to their inability to settle. If its right for you and them, stop. Look into raw milk formula if you do stop as its a much better alternative to canned formulas. The other thing, HNB's (high needs babies) are often kids with mild to moderate sensory issues AND/OR food allergies. For my son it was both, major major food allergies that I had no idea about until I started pulling stuff from my diet and he magically started sleeping and being ok alone for naps. He still always needs A TON of sensory input to go to sleep. White noise, being tightly swaddled, swaying, and being in a moby/ergo or the swing were the only way he slept. 4months old is always a bad time too b/c of the 4 mo sleep regression, and in addition to that, they are twins, they were used to not only you but each other in the womb, that has to contribute to their need to be on a warm body. We got a nut husk heating pad and I would nuke that for 7 seconds and put it in the crib or swing with DS to trick him into thinking there was a warm body next to him.

YOU ARE DOING A WONDERFUL WONDERFUL JOB AND YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS, I PROMISE.

[Bobbys]

Try a sleep positioner if they are rolling into each other. If they are still, you just might find them holding hands.
Seriously, consider bottle feeding. Sometimes we have to change our expectations. Do you really want to continue to suffer if you don't have to? I don't even know you and I don't want you to suffer.

[Godsgracetimes3]

I don't have any helpful advice. looks like there's lots of great suggestions on here for you that would have helped me. I had one high-needs baby and had much the same experience as you, so I can't imagine going through this with 2!

You are doing a wonderful job of mothering all three of your children and this stage won't last forever. I'm so so sorry all of you are going through this.


My DD nursed constantly. She napped on me, slept on me, wouldn't take a paci, wouldn't stay in a swing, stroller or any kind of baby gear that I so carefully picked out (she was my first). When she didn't want to nurse anymore but needed to be moving and held, hubby would walk up and down the hallway wearing out the carpet with his knee-bend moves to settle her into sleep. And then we had to do this contortionist act of holding her tightly to us so that we could attempt to put her down without her feeling the drop sensation. Good thing we had already planned on cosleeping and attachment parenting, she wouldn't have it any other way! It was a glorious day when she stayed in the stroller for 10 minutes but I had to keep it moving. A sling helped quite a bit.

I was beyond exhausted. Yet, often when I was at the end of my frayed nerves, the stage changed and something would shift. As she got more physically able to do things on her own (sitting up, especially), life got easier.

She's now 5 and still high needs (sleeping next to me as I type). She's also great fun and I marvel at her brilliance.

In time, I came to understand that her insistence on being held was partly sensory and also because she needed to be up, looking out and experiencing her world and just couldn't do that physically on her own at such a young age.

Hang in there, Momma!

[alfabetsoup]

Originally Posted by nummies

Charlene and others who mentioned formula/ bottlefeedings- Believe me, I think about it nearly every single day. I had D-MER with my son but it was very slight and I only got a little sad during the very beginning of let-down. It is the double let-downs that makes me go insane. It is just too much stimulation. Anyway, I have committed myself to nursing for 1 year. After that I will be weaning with no guilt.

Just coming back to say, when DD2 was 7mos I started supplementing her with formula. I just couldn't, physically or mentally, be her sole source of food any more. She wouldn't take any solids at that point or I would have supplemented that way. She continued to nurse until she was just over 12 mos, when she stopped asking for it, but it was a lot more relaxing for both of us as I didn't have to be everything to her. She'd never been an efficient nurser and I was under a lot of stress and it just didn't work out for us. She started sleeping really well (from being a horrible sleeper) a few days after we started the formula too, so I think she was really hungry. So I felt guilty for giving her the formula AND guilty for not giving it to her sooner.

Anyway, you can still breastfeed even if your babies have bottles sometimes. Breastfeeding is the ideal but it is not the only way to love your babies, and you sound like you love your babies a lot. I hope you can find a way through this.

[Astraia]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. When I have even one day like what you're describing, I go a bit loopy. 2 days in a row and I start throwing things. 3 days in a row and I consider leaving both kids and going to live with my mom (not for real... sort of... maybe a bit).

Also the D-Mer... kinda nice to have a name for it! When it was just Nigella I would sometimes get a bit cranky during let down (or that "I'm just hanging out but mostly asleep" suck). Nursing both kids at once and I get really, really angry. I dig my nails into my palms and kegel while thinking desperately of anything except where I am and what I'm doing, but sometimes it's just hte only way to keep them both from wailing for the next hour and keeping each other awake. So I feel you there.

Is there any way you can try NOT to nurse them both together? I know how much time it takes up to nurse 2 kids seperately but two at the same time is so hard to cope with. Sometimes I've left one crying (sometimes the baby, sometimes the toddler) while i nurse the other because i know if let them both latch I'd go over the edge. I'll keep the non-nursing child beside me and make faces, talk, tickle, whatever to try to keep them semi-entertained and so they know i'm there, even if they're crying.

Nigella- awful, awful sleeper. And the kind that takes one slip up, one "I'll just let you fall asleep nursing for now" and runs with it. I did what LadyCatherine did. I realized that she felt the need to sleep on me and wake every 45 minutes, but I neededs omething different. I started putting her down by herself and the first time I tried it took me 2 hours to get her down for a 20 minute nap. I'd get her mostly to sleep, put her down, she'd wake up and cry so I'd pick her up and repeat it all over again. The next time was only 45 minutes, third was 25 minutes. It was HARD and took forever and was so frustrating but she started napping by herself by 5 months (although when/if is still completely up to her). Any time she got sick or was restless and I let her do things her way, we were in for another fight to get her back to normal.

If the babies are crying and you're right there with them, rubbing and shushing or doing whatever you need to do to help them sleep, then it's not CIO. You need to change things up for your sanity, even if it's hard for the first while to make the change.

Some babies cry. Sometimes they NEED to cry to release tensions or stress (or so I've read a few different places) and we don't need to rush in to stop the crying or to think that crying means they're upset, lonely, or that they need help. Sometimes they just need to get it out. Even now Nigella sometimes needs to cry- she'll hurt me so I'll say "no" just so she can cry for a minute- and then she falls right to sleep, easy as pie. Just built up emotion or something, I have no idea.

I hope you find some solutions that work for you. Try to cut yourself some slack and realize you're doing the best you can, you're an awesome mom, and obviously love your family very much. Best of luck.

[LCBMAX]

Originally Posted by nummies

Charlene and others who mentioned formula/ bottlefeedings- Believe me, I think about it nearly every single day. I had D-MER with my son but it was very slight and I only got a little sad during the very beginning of let-down. It is the double let-downs that makes me go insane. It is just too much stimulation. Anyway, I have committed myself to nursing for 1 year. After that I will be weaning with no guilt.

Since you may or may not get the help you need to address the sleep issues, I suggest that you address the issue that can be addressed - even if it's not the one that seems the most urgent, and that is -- the breastfeeding thing.

I don't have D-MER, but I am the only person I know, irl or online, who has had pain with nursing that NEVER stopped. Now, at 27 months, I can occasionally describe it as strong discomfort, but it has never been comfortable, never mind joyous for me. And like you, I have a set idea in mind about my commitment to nursing. So I feel a little qualified to speak to you on just this aspect of what you are going through. If I could sit with you face to face, I'm sure I would cry while saying this, so please hear that I am going to write the following with deep deep compassion:

YOU MUST GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK, for your own sake, and for the sake of your children.

The symptoms of D-MER are necessarily affecting your decision-making process here. Please consider that hopelessness comes not only from situations truly being hopeless, but also from sleep deprivation, intimacy deprivation, and D-MER.

One less feeding (of both babes) per day might really be a huge relief, especially when you are still suffering so much at night. It will also free you up to use childcare support in new ways. Since you are so heroically committed to breastfeeding, I assume that formula is out for you. I think it could make things MUCH easier, but I'll keep talking as if you refused that option.

This will probably require some penny pinching to get the help you need, or calling in favors from trusted friends. Initially you can use some extra childcare help to manage the babes while you pump. With that help, you can pump immediately after a feeding, so that you are not subjecting yourself to another D-MER experience each day. When you have a little stock built up, you can use the childcare help to give you relief before, during (!) and after one feeding a day.

Here's what one bottle feeding per twin per day WILL NOT do: it won't decrease your commitment to nursing for a full year. It won't decrease your babies ability to attach to you. It won't decrease your desire to attach to them. It won't affect their health. It won't be weaning. It won't require any guilt on your part. It won't make you less heroic.

IT WILL: allow you to get a break, maybe even skip one miserable let-down per day. You might take a shower. You might play with your 3 year old. You might nap with your DH (oh my.) Your twins will be blessed with the opportunity to also experience nourishing nurturance with your DH, other family and trusted friends. You will be increasing their wealth of love experience. It will give you a better shot at continuing your nursing plan without a crash and burn moment.

I am not speaking from experience at good self-care. I have done all my son's milky-feedings since he was one month old (daddy did finger feeds in the beginning. He still misses that.) I suffered so much. I was terrified to let my son get my milk from anyone but me. I was stuck in my cycle of pain and nourishing, and I feel sorry now that I put myself through that. I think my sensitive infant felt my conflict and still feels it, and that we all would have benefitted from him having more early attachment options with my husband.

So if there's any part of you that clings to the breastfeeding out of dogma, guilt, inflexibility, anxiety, etc. -- please think again about these options. I know it's not the main issue, but damn, it's a big one. You are suffering soooo much, just with the nursing. I know this because I suffered lots, and still less than you, and it nearly did me in. I'm not even done yet processing this disappointment in my own life. It's the most responsible-mama thing you can do, to do anything you can to give yourself a break you can live with. Please think again about whether you can stretch your ideals to allow for the fact that a mama is an equally deserving member of the family.

I'm hitting submit with all the love and compassion of someone who also had a relentlessly rough nursing experience. You are a wonderful woman!

[Jend1002]

LCBMAX, if only I had seen your post when I was still breastfeeding through pain and complete frustration! Such wonderful advice for OP!!

[JamieBrewHa]

Oh mama, I'm so sorry this is so dang hard. You truly are superwoman, but even superwoman needs a break. I so wish I could come help you... hell, maybe I could. Though I imagine with a 1 and a 3 year old, we wouldn't be much help. If you need milk, say the word, I can send some.

Also i know it's not a full break by any means, but I was going to ask what carriers you're using and how they are going... if I've got anything that might be helpful, I'd totally send it your way to borrow.

I think about you often. It will get easier. You will get through this. We are totally hear for you in anyway we can be.

[morgainesmama]

HUGS.

I have not parented twins. But I read your post and wanted to add a thought that perhaps you've tried, but just in case ...

If you are using wraps or slings, it may help to swaddle baby before you snuggle into the sling for a nap. That way, when you unwrap/unsling, the baby still has the feeling of being held tightly, and it may help with transitioning into a crib or baby hammock or whatnot.

I know that whenever I've felt touched out or overwhelmed by just one baby at a time, I've needed touch time with my partner all the more as a way to recharge.

Swaddling during breastfeeding can interfere with nursing, but otherwise, swaddling before wearing should be fine as long as babies are placed on their backs and not cosleeping with other siblings.

[nummies]

Thank you all so much for all the thoughts and SUPPORT on this thread. This is why I love mothering.

Louisep- Thank you. I agree that I just need sleep. Sadly, I just don't see that happening anytime soon. We had an awful night last night. Our one twin was up every 45 minutes.

Erin- Thanks for mentioning the 4 month sleep regression. I didn't even think of that.

Godsgrace- That sounds exactly like one of our twins. Glad you lived through it to tell the tale!

Grace- Thanks for checking in here. I really do almost have to nurse them both together during the day when I am home alone. Otherwise, I am spending 20 minutes hearing the other one scream while nursing the other. That is enough to drive someone crazy. Of course, someone is always crying here. I just have to figure out how to get one to sleep and then the other without the non-stop screaming.

LCBMAX- Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. It really struck a nerve with me. I don't know why I am so committed to nursing (over-committed I think). I feel a lot of guilt about having two babies. I feel like I can never get one-on-one time with them so I make up for that by nursing. I don't know. I just feel like I can't fail at this, ya know? I have way too high of standards for myself and I just can't possibly live up to them. I almost feel like I have made my bed and now I should lie in it. I chose to get pregnant and have the babies so now I should feed them. I don't know. Your post really just got me thinking. I just keep thinking. I only have 234 days left. If I can just make it through then I can be done. It is sad really.

Jamie- Thank you for checking in here. Love you! I don't feel like I can post this on our board because it is shameful that I feel this way.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by Bobbys

This isn't going to be a popular answer, but consider pumping or supplementing with formula if nursing is that awful. BFing is a great bonding, nurturing time btw mom and baby, but if you are in that much distress over it, then your babies are suffering too. BFing twins is an incredible thing to do, but not at the risk of your sanity nor your marriage.

Do your twins sleep together? Can they? If they want a warm body next to them, can it be their sibling? I'm not sure if there are risks for twins sleeping side by side. But it's worth a shot. If not, put them in their cribs, and sit there holding their hands while they cry. Let them know you are there. Start with naps and then move on from there. Little victories.

Godspeed.

This sounds sensible. I'm all for breastfeeding but not if it makes things worse. Also, you could use some night help. Can you get a pp doula, college student or sympathetic family member to help out? Even getting a good night's sleep every third night will improve your outlook a lot. Also, not a very popular opinion... but a three year old could go off to preschool three mornings a week for now. Until the babies got old enough to manage more gracefully.

Hang in there.

[Nikki74]

Originally Posted by BeantownBaby9

The other mommas have great suggestions and I agree with the BFing, with the D-MER, you are putting negative, stressful energy out there, that cannot be calming for your twins, and may be contributing to their inability to settle.

I agree with this. My first child was high needs, but I was stressed to the max, and anxious about everything. My second and third babies have been wonderfully content - unless I have been stressed, depressed, angry etc. On those days they have been terribly clingy...always the way - on the days you need them to be calm they are not, but whenever I've realised that they just need to feel love rather than frustration from me, and I've given myself a good talking to and chilled out, they've immediately calmed down and gone to sleep or relaxed and stopped crying.

I appreciate that it's really hard for you with the D-MER and having twins...in fact I can't imagine what it's like, but isn't there *some* way of you getting a nap (do you have parents or in-laws around) - sleep deprivation does awful things to the best mamas...or is there anyone who can look after them while you get out for an hour by yourself? It's amazing what one hour a couple of times a week can do for one's sanity! For me, dh looks after our children in the mornings 3 times a week so that I can go to the gym.

I don't have loads of advice, except to say that if there are any steps you can take in order to make you feel happier/less tired, then I'm sure it will go a long way towards helping your little ones.

[Nillarilla]

ok I didn't read any of the replies but I wanted to reply so sorry if this has already been suggested. A disclaimer since I've never had twins. This is what I would try is putting both babes swaddled or in woombies in a recliner rocker baby chair like the fisher price ones and rocking each with your feet. This only works if they are always going to be in eyesight since they obviously can't be strapped in. Or one in a rocker and one in a swing or dual swings? I know this is totally not MDC but have you tried paci's with either babe. My dd didn't take one for the first 4 months but when she did it was like night and day with the sleeping. She settled way easier and without the boob. It really didn't affect our nursing relationship at all.

[marinak1977]

- hang in there mama. You're doing an amazing job! Sending you good vibes