I learned something new today.... - Page 2

[KGB]

An interesting thing about wisdom teeth is that they're a useless product of evolution. With our modern diet, we no longer need extra "grinding" teeth at the back of our mouths. The uselessness can be evidenced by the fact that many people do not get wisdom teeth anymore. I only had 2 (top) that were coming in that were removed. No bottom teeth were found with x-rays.

So in that aspect, they are in fact removing a non-functioning part since having no wisdom teeth will not affect one's ability to eat properly. And give or take a few thousand years, wisdom teeth will be phased out by evolution anyway, just like we've phased out long sharp canines due to our agrarian diet.

The foreskin, however, does and always has served a very important purpose.

[St. Margaret]

Originally Posted by eepster

Not necessarily. Some people just don't have all 4 wisdom teeth. They simply don't have all the tooth buds to begin with.

When I said I have "all" my wisdom teeth still, I meant the 3 that I grew. The dentist looked at the x-ray of where a person would typically have a fourth tooth, and there is nothing down there.

Yeah, and my sister in law had EXTRA wisdom teeth, so she really did have to have them out, no room for 6 or 8 (I forget) extra teeth coming in to her mouth.

I've often wondered about this issue. I didn't know enough to really think about it and research it when I had mine out (which was not a big deal and was kind of nice to be babied back at my parents, had them out in college-- I did have issues with my jaw around that time so maybe it WAS necessary-- but it IS crazy to have surgery, knocked out-- we all know every time there's a real risk). I'm learning a lot here!

[CallMeMommy]

My dentist has been after me for years to get mine removed I did consent to getting the bottom ones out because they were coming in sideways and crowding my other teeth, plus the gums over them would get inflamed and painful. Since I had 2 permanent teeth up front removed when I was a kid it made room for the top ones to come completely down and I haven't had a single problem with them, and yet he's still telling me to get them out. Why? Why on earth would I go through the pain and expense to fix something that's not broken in the first place?

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by CallMeMommy

Why? Why on earth would I go through the pain and expense to fix something that's not broken in the first place?

I don't know, but what did the dentist say if you asked that?
I may be missing it but it seems like most of you that haven't had your wisdom teeth out haven't said what reasons the dentist gave. While I agree that there are good dentist and bad dentists, I'm not surprised to hear that dentists would present this as an option, but its a shame they are coming across as promoting something that is unnecessary and not explaining (if their are) risks.
I guess we all go by what has happened to those around us, but I know one person in college who didn't get them out- till they suddenly started to inflame and another older person who suddenly developed problems too. That leads me to think the dentists are not totally crazy to offer this...

Jessica

[To-Fu]

Originally Posted by Llyra

I have endured ten years of hassle and harassment from multiple dentists' offices, because I have refused to have mine out. There's no problem with them-- they cause me no pain. Two of them are in, and are sound, healthy teeth. One is a bit crooked, but who really cares-- nobody ever sees it. The other two have not emerged yet. (I'm 35) I don't know why.

Anyway, every single solitary time I see a dentist for any reason, the dentist looks all startled and shocked that they weren't taken out, and asks me repeatedly if I will consider scheduling to have them taken out. They seem astonished when I say that I want to keep them. They're my teeth, they don't bother me at all, and I want them. Apparently, I'm the only one they've ever met who's reached my "ripe old" age and still kept my wisdom teeth.

I am not opposed to "just in case" procedures with informed consent. But most people, adult or teen, who have this done are having it done because "everybody does" without any real understanding that every surgical procedure has risks, and that it is possible to live your life with your wisdom teeth in your mouth and have it done if and when a problem emerges. Because sometimes no problems happen.

This is exactly my experience! Uncanny.

Did it take your two wisdom teeth a long time to come fully in? I swear, one of them took a couple of years.

I haven't had an X-ray in the last decade to confirm what's up with my other two hidden teeth, but so far so good.

I have lived both in the midwest and on the west coast of the U.S. and it is very common to have wisdom teeth preventatively removed whether there is a problem or not. I escaped by not going to the dentist as often as recommended. Whoops!

I think the connection between this and RIC is tenuous but there. It's all wrapped up in the idea of liberal "preventative" surgeries, sure, but wisdom teeth and foreskin don't seem to share the same level of function/significance, IMO.

[To-Fu]

Originally Posted by jessjgh1

I don't know, but what did the dentist say if you asked that?
I may be missing it but it seems like most of you that haven't had your wisdom teeth out haven't said what reasons the dentist gave. While I agree that there are good dentist and bad dentists, I'm not surprised to hear that dentists would present this as an option, but its a shame they are coming across as promoting something that is unnecessary and not explaining (if their are) risks.
I guess we all go by what has happened to those around us, but I know one person in college who didn't get them out- till they suddenly started to inflame and another older person who suddenly developed problems too. That leads me to think the dentists are not totally crazy to offer this...

Jessica

The last dentist that tried to get me to have my wisdom teeth removed wanted me to do it b/c of my age. I was pregnant at the time and so couldn't have an X-ray; he wanted me to make a surgery appointment for immediately postpartum. He said that the procedure and recovery grow exponentially more difficult as one ages.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by JMJ

DH still has his. He's got cavities in 2 of them, and the dentist wants them out. DH doesn't want to get them removed. We went TF when DD got a cavity, and DH is hoping that if he eats well, they won't cause a problem. If they ever get really bad, he'll get rid of them but never as a preventative measure for something that may happen in the future, even if it is pretty likely. That's how he feels, and it's his body.

Are they just regular cavities or does the tooth actually need a root canal? I probably had the wisdom tooth treated (filled) 2 or 3 times (at least) over the years with no problem. IT was only when they recommended a root canal that I drew the line and wanted it out. If the dentist doesnt feel comfortable filling the tooth, I'd get a 2nd opinion. Not all dentists can get a good seal with back teeth (with composites). Normally, I'd expect the dentist should WANT to fill the tooth (to make more money of course) - then they can take that out and refill it in 4 or 5 years, etc, etc. Taking it out for a simple cavity doesn't get them very much (if its a regular type extraction, not expensive surgery).

Someone mentioned how long did it take for the wisdom teeth to come in, mine did take years. I think the first one started to come in maybe around age 20, but all 4 weren't completely in until I was like 24... my memory is hazy but I do remember it took years and I kept cutting teeth well past age "21" lol

[outlier]

I had two removed because they were starting to come in and were threatening to undo some of the work years of braces had done. I guess that's an okay reason. I didn't want to be put under for the surgery, so they said they'd do just the two that appointment and I could make another appointment in the future for the other two. Ten years later they haven't moved in whatsoever and I still haven't made that appointment.

I do regret that my orthodontist and parents decided to have some of my other permanent teeth removed simply to make the braces process easier. I already know for my future kids, a doctor or dentist is going to have to make a very solid case to me before I'll consent to any body part removal.

[KaylaBeanie]

I think it's important to remember that a LOT of American children need (sometime legitimately, sometimes not so legitimately) some form of orthodontia, from something as mild as a retainer to something as extreme as jaw reconstruction and years of braces. I know only a small handful of people who have "perfect" teeth without any help. Whether it's right or wrong, when you spend 3+ years rearranging the teeth and spending thousands of dollars, it doesn't make much sense to shift everything by letting the wisdom teeth grow in. As it is, mine were impacted, causing a lot of pain and all x-rays showed that not removing them would essentially ruin my years of braces and retainers to fix my genetically crappy mouth. I think that often, braces are used cosmetically, but because of the problems we have created with teeth and jaw development due to lack of natural length nursing, we as a society have brought on the need for a lot of this. We're not doing anything new with a penis that would cause a large percentage of men's foreskins to grow wrong and cause debilitating problems.

[Claire and Boys]

Originally Posted by To-Fu

The last dentist that tried to get me to have my wisdom teeth removed wanted me to do it b/c of my age. I was pregnant at the time and so couldn't have an X-ray; he wanted me to make a surgery appointment for immediately postpartum. He said that the procedure and recovery grow exponentially more difficult as one ages.

Sounds extremely familiar in context of circumcision!

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie

I think that often, braces are used cosmetically, but because of the problems we have created with teeth and jaw development due to lack of natural length nursing, we as a society have brought on the need for a lot of this. We're not doing anything new with a penis that would cause a large percentage of men's foreskins to grow wrong and cause debilitating problems.

That's a very good point.

[Raine822]

I have also heard the whole "it's more painful and more difficult when you older argument". I am having 2 impacted wisdom teeth removed tomorrow. The oral surgeon has explained to me the reason it's more difficult-if you can't have someone stay with you during the procedure in the office it will be done in a hospital and you have to stay longer(because there is no one to help you as you are groggy). Children will have a parent who will stay where adults may not have someone. The reason for the more painful argument-The procedure is not necessarily more painful but the problems can be extremely painful-in my case infections and if I don't take care of this later on could cause problems with the molars due to positioning.

With the way he described these to me it just makes the point that removing the wisdom teeth young is a preventative procedure.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by jessjgh1

I guess we all go by what has happened to those around us, but I know one person in college who didn't get them out- till they suddenly started to inflame and another older person who suddenly developed problems too. That leads me to think the dentists are not totally crazy to offer this...

But any tooth can have issues, why are the wisdom teeth the ones that should be removed? I have needed root canal in two of my molars. I have a crown on one molars and a partial crown on another. Many of my other molars have regular fillings. I have cracks in some of my front teeth.

My wisdom teeth however, are all fine. Yes, they are far back there and some what hard to clean. They are a wee bit crooked since they came in after my orthodontics were complete and never got straightened, but other than that they have been my most trouble free teeth.

Removal of wisdom teeth should be held to the same standards as other teeth are, and treated with the same level of care. If the problem is something you would consider pulling a six year molar for, then maybe it's worth pulling the wisdom tooth for. However, if the problem is minor and you would just treat it in a 6 year molar, then the wisdom tooth should also be treated.



This is also why I suggested the "toe standard" to determined if a problem with the foreskin warrants circ. If the problem is bad enough that you would get toe amputated for a similar problem (say gangrene) then it is reasonable to get circ'd for it. However, if the problem is something you wouldn't have a toe amputated over (say athlete's foot/yeast infection) then it isn't something one should get circ'd over.

[2boyzmama]

Interesting comparison. I barely made it out of the military with my wisdom teeth. It is a matter of procedure to remove them. I argued it (I have only two wisdom teeth, and they both came in straight, no crowding, no cavities, no issues) and I eventually found the exact regulations pertaining to it. I don't remember the details now, but basically you weren't considered deployable unless you had a particular dental status, and that status typically involved the removal of wisdom teeth. I was able to find a loophole and keep my teeth (I'm out of the military now).

I know of many people who have theirs out, probably more than those who still have theirs. Some are legitimate reasons (impaction, infection, crowding, etc) some are not so legitimate (cosmetic, potential issues later, about to lose their parents' dental coverage and want it done so they don't have to pay later...)

I'm keeping my teeth, thankyouverymuch!

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by eepster

But any tooth can have issues, why are the wisdom teeth the ones that should be removed?

We were talking about wisdom teeth that haven't erupted yet in some cases, but wisdom teeth definitely seem more prone to drastic problems.... Or maybe that is what the dentists want us to think? Wisdom teeth are farther back, harder to clean, and are not being used like they were designed to be... I guess it makes sense to me that they might be more problematic than the other teeth.

I agree that this might be a problem, but I'm not so sure it really is a deceptive dental practice, I'd really need to look into it more (and I'm not saying I will). It is just as possible that the dentist are right- that preventative extraction is less risky because the wisdom teeth are problematic.
Now do most dental insurance companies cover preventative removal (or removal if a dentist authorizes/suggests it). If so, and it is not an expensive out of pocket expense then I'd also be more likely to believe that it is likely a logical procedure- since the insurance companies would not want to pay for something that is not a necessity.
Of course, individuals should be able to choose whatever they feel is best for them.
I also think that dentisty- (ie. improving our 'smiles) is a very American privilege and social value that is almost always unnecessary. So I'm not sure where to draw the line on the whole
Anyways, it is not something nearly as important to me as ending cosmetic circumcision.... I see some parallels but on the other hand, no one has even posted that they had their wisdom teeth out and regretted it either (unless I missed that, if so I apologize, I realize there are complications that could come about). Seems that most of the extractions have really helped some problems and some people even wish they had done it sooner-- or had the option that their insurance covered it.

I'm not trying to be a pita either, just was a bit intriguing and somehow I got caught a few times with a toddler nursing (or asleep) on my lap so I was, you might say, a captive audience.

Jessica

[Cinder]

I've never met anyone who had them removed for no reason. My DH had his removed at 21 due to impaction and severe headaches and they thought that might be the cause (it worked, so they must of been right)...

I was SUPPOSED to get mine out at 14, 18, 25...but I'm a wimp and canceled it all 3 times. The reason being over crowding...and, yea, I bite my cheeks while eating at least once a day since there isn't enough room in my mouth for all my teeth, and all my orthodontic work on the bottom was ruined once they came in...but, yea.

My grandma had hers removed in her 50's due to infections.

My mom, brother, cousins, aunts and uncles all still have theirs and all are over 20.

[Marsupialmom]

Mine were impacted............so I had a very good reason. I hurted so much.

[arianascrunchymama]

I can see your connection for sure! But since it's done when we're teenagers at least we have some say in it. As opposed to newborn boys who have none.

I had mine out when I was 17. They were impacted and I just had my braces removed a few months prior. I had those bad boys on for almost 2 years- ouch! So I had mine removed because they were crowding my newly straight teeth. I was put under. Coming out of that was NOT fun!

[Minky]

I had one removed, which had a cavity in it, when I was 25. It was such a terrible procedure that I opted to have another one drilled, rather than pulled, when I had another cavity at 30.

My husband had the "pre-emptive" removal, which was proposed to both of us by our dentists when we were in our teens, and had a much more complicated recovery as they had to cut into his gum to find the not-yet-erupted teeth. I thought what I went through was bad, but when he told me about his ordeal, I was shocked. And there was nothing wrong with his teeth!

I remember my dentist saying, "We'll let you keep your wisdom teeth if you keep them clean," like it was their choice, when I was a teenager. I walked right out of that office and never went back.

I see a lot of parallels with circ and always have.

[K703]

I had mine out when I was 19; in my case two of the teeth were starting to impact their neighbors. My dentist had no problems with me keeping them as long as they weren't causing problems.