Avoiding anti-biotics

[rachie]

Most of us realize that there is such an over-use of anti-biotics in the United States especially. My problem is that I am just not exactly sure where the "line" is for when they really should be considered "necessary" especially to my developing children.

So far each time my daughter has come down with an ear infection we've taken her to the chiropractor and had her adjusted (helps ears drain and boosts immune system function) and the infection has cleared right up.

But last Wednesday she had a fever and she had two adjustments over that week and her fever finally broke Saturday - but then she could NOT sleep ALL... NIGHT.... LONG because of a cough she had. All our efforts to ease her cough naturally did not help - sitting in a steamy room (with shower on hot), a little bit of honey (she's old enough - 19 months), etc... After an entire night up with her (I'm an exhausted pregnant mom) I decided to take her to a pediatrician and....

(bet you guessed it) she's got an infection in both ears and post-nasal drip and...... he prescribed antibiotics for her - and Sudafed. I tried to talk to him about the use of these medications and if they are really necessary at this time and he basically ignored me (if it's possible in a "polite" way).

She got adjusted one more time today (subluxation in her neck again) - and got some immune system support supplements for her.

I hate that she's sick, in pain, miserable, etc... but I just don't like the idea of giving her drugs unless it's something that I feel is serious enough to cause real harm to her - and at this point even her body is not feverish anymore - I would think that means the "threat" is gone - ???

Sorry so long - (I'm emotionally drained right now) - how do YOU decide if/when/when NOT to allow the use of anti-biotics for your child/ren, yourself? What other things do you do to help a very young child get well (and yes I'll except "just wait it out" - but I'm also trying to figure out when waiting it out is not appropriate - when things do start to turn worse - but again I'm thinking there would be a fever or some sign like that - that her little body would be telling me something is more serious).

I need some support here - the pediatrician made it sound so easy "just give her this and in 48 hours she'll be just fine"......?????

[sbgrace]

I can't give you a good answer but I can give you information.

Research would support a 48 to 72 hours (that 72 is the long end) wait period for an ear infection to clear. That gives the body enough time if it can do it without help. The vast majority of infections (viral certainly and most bacterial as well) will clear up in that time. A small percent won't and need antibiotics. An even smaller aren't going to clear up even with antibiotics. So most kids will clear up in 48 hours give or take no matter what you do or don't do. Your daughter was on the outside end of that we assume given the fever resolution.

Where it gets tricky in your case is that the fever is gone. It would be really unusual for an ear infection that has gone on for a couple of days short of a week to have no fever at all. It doesn't strike me as likely at all. So I would assume one of two things:
1. Your doctor saw fluid (which can remain long after infections are gone) and diagnosed a double ear infection...I hope it's not the case but it does happen. You'd need to know what he saw and it doesn't sound like he'd be open to sharing that.
2. Her immune system fought of the infection but still had the virus (or whatever) and the residual fluid became infected again. If that's what happened, though, I'd expect a fever to come back. Bodies fighting infection run fevers. If I were in there I'd want to know how she has an active double ear infection without a fever. I'm not saying there's no chance but it would be weird I'd think.

Beyond that is this a pediatrician suggested sudafed and current research clearly shows it's not effective for coughs and benefits (none) don't outweigh risks (some) in kids your daughter's age. I believe the labels now say do not use for kids under four (not consult doctor...it's a do not use as it's been deemed unsafe). There has been a lot in the news about cough/cold medicines for kids. Read up. I wouldn't give the sudafed. But even bigger I'd be concerned the pediatrician advised it and what the means about how up he is with current practices/research/etc. He recommended something the FDA has issued warnings about and has been talking about for years. Beyond that, he doesn't sound like the kind of pediatrician who is a parent partner.

I tried to talk to him about the use of these medications and if they are really necessary at this time and he basically ignored me (if it's possible in a "polite" way).

That's a major, major red flag. I'd get a new pediatrician as quickly as I could....maybe for a second opinion on those ears.

Beyond that, I'm wondering how many ear infections she's had and in what time frame? Ear infection after ear infection signal a problem. Do hers resolve within 48ish hours typically? I'm wondering about her ear structure/drainage.

[Violet2]

I have chronic illness so I do take antibiotics more than most people. Usually I feel comfortable with them if I've waited a reasonable time to improve on my own and if I haven't been taking them a lot recently. While I use them more than most people, I have never felt that the use has been irresponsible.

In fact, I was in the hospital in March and had been saying no to antibiotics b/c I knew it was viral. They briefly started antibiotics in the hospital until they even realized it was viral.

For DD, I remember she had RSV that ended in an ear infection. Considering she had stopped gaining weight, had been sick for a month and was throwing up every time she nursed, we did the antibiotics.

Usually with antibiotics you notice an improvement within the first 48 hours. If you don't feel better than can mean either you got the wrong antibiotic or it's not going to help anyway.

So my antibiotic 'yard stick' is duration of illness, severity, and symptoms (i.e. classic viral symptoms vs. a true infection).

HTH
V

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by rachie

So far each time my daughter has come down with an ear infection we've taken her to the chiropractor and had her adjusted (helps ears drain and boosts immune system function) and the infection has cleared right up.

The fact that she's had multiple ear infections, to me, means something is off. The usual culprit is dairy, or another allergenic food. The only EI my son's gotten is when he consumed one of the foods he's intolerant of near the end of a very congested/icky cold; for us it wasn't dairy, we're already dairy-free, but a different food. So I'd consider a food intolerance.

Sorry so long - (I'm emotionally drained right now) - how do YOU decide if/when/when NOT to allow the use of anti-biotics for your child/ren, yourself? What other things do you do to help a very young child get well (and yes I'll except "just wait it out" - but I'm also trying to figure out when waiting it out is not appropriate - when things do start to turn worse - but again I'm thinking there would be a fever or some sign like that - that her little body would be telling me something is more serious).

The bold part has been huge for us. DS used to get sick a lot more than other kids and the fact that the illnesses didn't turn serious, especially when he was a little baby, I credit to figuring out which nutritional support supps work best for us. Vitamin C to bowel tolerance, which for us was a whole lot, helped, later on I figured out that other nutrients were probably also involved, zinc and vitamin A and vitamin D. And I eventually figured out the foods he's intolerant of, and especially for illnesses that have more potential to get complicated (the flu-like illnesses last fall, for example), I think that helped make the difference between sick and getting better uneventfully vs dealing with complications.

There's a lot in this forum that's helpful for preventing problems from occurring. Long-term I think cell salts are going to be very useful, I'm starting to see good results with homeopathy, homemade soup with real stock has helped a lot with diarrheal illnesses, I've seen good results with essential oils helping with coughs, there's so much more I can do to increase the likelihood that the kids' illnesses don't become severe that I never knew about before. I bet I have a lot more to learn too. I feel like I've just scratched the surface of what's possible, and it's a cool feeling.

[sbgrace]

Adding:
The best immune supporting things in my opinion are:
Adequate vitamin D levels (kids over one year can take 2000 IU per day of D3--many people use carlson drops)
High quality probiotics (s. boulardi has proven immune boosting supports. It's florastor (contains lactose) or Klaire labs has one without allergens) and I'd do a colonizing probiotic as well (Klaire labs are great) though if I had to chose one it would be florastor.
Zinc (I like optizinc for absorption but it might be hard to get in a small child)
Sleep
Ear infections especially have shown reduction with xylitol. I've got some concern that xylitol is going to kill healthy bacteria (including s. boulardi particularly) in the system. However, I did feel it helped my son and research shows it does decrease ear infections.

But I'm concerned that you figure out why you're dealing with repeat infections. Tanya found allergens to be the culprit. Dairy is common. But I will say that in my son's case it was purely structural and my underlying "gut reaction" from what you described is that it might be the case for her as well.

[Liquesce]

I really think there are some misconceptions about what constitutes the overuse of antibiotics, personally. The biggest problems with antibiotics is their being prescribed as a sort of catch-all for things that may or may not actually respond to antibiotics ("Hey doc, I have a sort throat." "Well here, let's give you some amoxicillin without determining a cause."), and people not taking them for the term prescribed ("well it's only been three days but I feel better so I guess I don't need to take the rest"). The problem is not so much their appropriate use for actual bacterial infections.

[rachie]

Thanks!

Thank you for the great advice and for sharing the things that have helped you.

My daughter's first ear infection was age two months. The next she was 7 months and had just fallen on her head the day before (about three feet, head first onto a tile floor) he - then she got a fever and an ear infection. I took her to the chiropractor and her fever was gone by that evening and she improved greatly. She's had two or three more since that time and is now 19 months so this is, what, her fifth ear infection of her 1.5 year old life. Is that considered "repeat" or "a lot" of ear infections? And all except that first one and maybe one more have occurred after she falls and misaligns her little neck - weird??? I think it REALLY affects the way her ears drain and her immune system and sinuses and everything when she messes up her neck.

I may try taking her off dairy - it's already greatly limited and hardly any cow's milk products (we do goat's milk & cheese).

[Violet2]

I think my ENT friend told me 3 in a year is a lot and would be considered for tubes.

You might want to ask your ped if tubes would be helpful/a good idea.

V

[eireann]

I got a cold in december, and a few weeks later I suffered a wooshing dizzy spell. I had this on and off, as well as throbbing sinuses. I got something around Easter that resulted in a fever (havent had a fever in a decade) chills, coughing up gunk, spontaneous coughing, and was sick for four weeks (that NEVER happens to me.) The absolute worst part of all of it was I was having GOBS of anxiety, thinking that my RSI and tarsal tunnel were some horrendous disease. I mean, I have never in my life felt this level of worry, anxiety...I would have called me psychotic had I been on the outside. I was virtually incapacitated, and began seeing a therapist. I went to PT and was in a ton of pain from sciatica, etc. and nothing much helped.

I FINALLY went to an ENT (literally 2 weeks ago) and determined I had a sinus infection, ear infection and fluid in the ears. I was put on an antibiotic, the pounding went away, the dizziness went away, and after 5 days, the anxiety went away. I have done a 180 and am back to my old self. Coincidence? Maybe. But it was very well timed.

I am very, VERY resistant to abx but clearly in this case it helped. I had/have some very achy muscles and bones, but I am done with my in a few and am really happy I decided to do it.

(of course I supported my body with good supps and nutrition during this time, but before this NOTHING was working.)

[Smidge]

I may be wrong, so please correct me, but I thought the AAP has changed their stance on anti-biotics for ear infections. They don't really recommend them anymore but suggest to just let them clear on their own.

Are you still nursing her? You can put bm in her ears and clear it up. If you're not nursing do you have a trusted friend that could donate a few ounces to you?

I hope she feels better asap

[rachie]

ears

Originally Posted by Smidge

Are you still nursing her? You can put bm in her ears and clear it up. If you're not nursing do you have a trusted friend that could donate a few ounces to you?

I hope she feels better asap

Thanks - She just quit about five months ago because I'm pregnant and either the milk's flavor or consistency changed or maybe dried up - so she didn't want to nurse anymore. I'll have milk again in about three months (but obviously that won't help me right now)! Don't really have any friends close enough to donate (who would be comfortable doing so).

Did I mention that she (and the rest of us) just got over a stomach flu thing about two weeks ago?? I think her poor little immune system just hasn't had a chance to really catch up!!

[JaneS]

HerbPharm garlic/mullein oil is the best for ear infections, really clears them up fast.

Ditto exploring allergies and immune support.